1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

One of the HVAC techs that was at my house a few weeks ago reminded me of you so much Noah. Similar background, personality, and views on the world. Dude was funny. Left a cigarette butt on my garage floor .

 

I wasn’t under the truck I was pumping the brakes so idk. But it was on the ground.

 

The first 2/3 of the pedal don’t do a damn thing. Then brakes engage at the bottom. After bleeding the LSPV twice with decent amount of driving in between it’s engaging where it should, but it’s pretty weak. I’m ~50% of the brake pedal travel before it grabs like it did normally before.

 

I no longer smoke, I've moved away from acoustic cancer in favor of electric, mint flavored cancer

Gave you some Deja vu?

 

You didn't pump the pedal all of the way to the floor, did you? I would think that a shop like that would have an actual pneumatic bleeder system on hand.

 

You just had someone install LT in the rear. If you deleted your parking brake stuff, or your parking brake is out of adjustment, that is 100% the most likely issue here. These trucks cannot brake properly without functional parking brake. Is yours still intact? If so, did you do anything to adjust/fix your shit after doing the LT? Like, the lever/arm position on the LSPV?

@KNABORES is right, my '06 came with two clips on each side. Maybe the earlier 13WE trucks were different, but my 13WL later-model has all 4 clips.

 

Sounds like air is still trapped somewhere. Did you put anything under the brake pedal before you started bleeding to protect the master cylinder? Usually recommend to put something under it to keep the pedal from traveling too far during the bleeding process.

Other than replacing a brake line, did you do anything else?

 

Very good point!

 

This is fantastic, it's perfect

 

@shifty` is right. The rear brakes being even slightly out of adjustment will have a huge impact on brake pedal travel and performance. I hate the rear drums.

 

The parking brake is a good way to test the drums, but its really a drum brake adjustment.

 

I feel like rear drums are almost like points ignition or carburetors. If you know how to adjust points, and you know how the various methods to baseline a carb for dial-in, good for you. Me, I need to use a damn reference all the same. Some folks wax nostalgic about working with all three, points, drums, carbs, because they've figured out all the little tricks and can commit that info to memory. Everyone else who either (A) don't realize there's a fundamental trick involved or (B) know there is, but don't do it enough to remember and/or execute perfectly the first time, it's a nightmare.

 

But if anything changed on the rear braking linkage/assembly, and it puts the drums out of alignment, say the LSPV is splitting rear/front load 60/40 while properly adjusted, but now, the rear changes moved or altered either (A) the LSPV ratio or (B) changes to the parking brake and/or drum default offset, then what? Now it's no longer 60/40 and/or the rears aren't engaging as quickly.

It's going to take longer to engage the drums, leaving all the braking to the front, which is going to feel soft as hell. All it takes (ask FGV) is the rear drum being a tiny bit out of spec - I think it's something crazy like <1mm or something on these 1GTs - and your pedal will feel soft, brakes lakcluster.

 

I've tried passing my knowledge of carb tuning to the next generation, but polo doesnt seem interested at all.

 

It's a wuff life.

 

I'd like to understand more about how the lspv return line works & how that line would get bled.

 

There's very little to adjust on the rears. First you MUST get the parking brake dialed in. The reason this is so important is the parking brake operates from the lower part of the pads. The normal brakes operate from the top. The whole pad does not move perfectly in from the side, they pivot from the top to apply the parking brake, or from the bottom to provide the regular brakes. Getting the parking brake set properly gives the regular brakes the appropriate pivot point for good engagement. Then you set the brake pad distance from the drum with the starwheel adjuster to get the brake travel minimized, engaging the rears as soon as he pedal is depressed which then sends the pressure forward engaging the fronts sooner and improving the brake feel, travel, and effectiveness. Adjusting the LSPV should be last to blend the brake pressure front to back to keep the rears from locking up when hard braking.

 

News to me. The earlier trucks were definitely different.

 

To keep beating the aa dead horse, only some DC's and sequoias have dual rear brake lines? Everyone else only has a single line that splits at the axle? So the abs cant control the rear wheels seperately?

 

Stop, drop, shut 'em down, open up shop
Oh, no, that's how Ruff Ryders roll

 

Someone help me understand the super high level reasons why drum to disc is such a chore?

Am I correct in understanding that the primary problem is a mounting bracket for the caliper itself? Which would need to be well braced to the axle housing? Or whatever the part that encloses the part that spins to apply force is called? Driveshaft and axle are the only words I know about.

Seriously seeking to learn here.

 

Did he go full long travel? I thought that involved more than just longer shocks. But either way, if he changed the ride height without adjusting the LSPV, that could definitely be an issue. That thing is extremely finicky for me. Mine is not working like it's designed. It's weird that it varies day to day for me.

 

I can vouche for this... Recent rear brake job. My bellcranks are obviously fused together with rust, (heat/pb/and a 3lb sledge... didn't budge) so adjusting the rears pads out manually got rid of 90% of my pedal travel.

 

Not yet. He's prepping for it

 

@daveeasa
Gotta get the drums & backing plates off, which means pulling the axles. Then need an adapter to bolt the caliper to the axle flange (which is a different shape than the sequoia flange, but not sure about the 4runner or FJ flange) then, i'm pretty sure the disc calipers take more fluid than the drums, so might need an adjustable proportioning valve. And some fine tuning to get everything to work together. I know the sequoia had a larger piston in the MC. But it also had 4 channel ABS.

 

what did you do to get to this point? Did you change rear brakes? Did you change front brakes? Did you just install new pads and do a bleed for the heck of it?

 

I dunno, the pictures I saw showed two new shock mounts welded onto the axle tubes on the back side of the axle, passenger one was a few inches outboard from the LSPV bracket. I don't recall whether the LSPV bracket was still intact or not. I also don't know if the axle was sitting higher/lower after.

I mean, realizing the gear ratio on the axle assembly matched, of course.

 

And pulling the axles, that’s required for a regear, correct? Hard but not brutal?

the adapters are one trick and the fluid is the real source of trouble?

 

Does anyone remember if the DC/Sequoia rear axle is wider or skinnier than the AC/RC trucks?

I'm just thinking ... if the DC/Sequoia rear axle is like 1" wider, knowing the wheels naturally sit a little more inboard, maybe it'd be advantageous for AC owners to grab a Sequoia assembly swap to get all-wheel disc?

I think you'd ve able to ditch the LSPV, although you'd probably want to install a manual PV. Else if you really needed to keep LSPV with discs (I can't think of why), you'd potentially need to weld on an LSPV bracket, I don't think the Sequoia has LSPV. And I don't think any of the DC came with disc.

Anyway, just spitballing some random brain chatter over here.

 

Axles are diff't length between RC/AC and DC.