06 AC w/oem HU Speaker Upgrade brands?

theyre on the way...
JBL Club 64CSQ 1 $194.89
JBL Club 64SQ 1 $129.15

im sure whats left of my oem radio will sound better for a few months til I can find time to replace it w/updated HU; for now
I cant see these speaks being any worsethan the oem's. Have to admit tho, for 19yr olds, they sound good, in a 2006-stock way. IE: non jbl, thru oem amp [fujitsu?], BUT not much depth of sound or distinction.

 

Getting ready for install and reviewing the Crutchfield & JBL instructions.
Question:
Can anybody who has the Component Club 64CSQs [or any JBL Club series speaks] tell me specifically what I get [will I even hear the difference] from the X-over switch setting of 0db vs. -3db, before I bury it in the door panel?

 

Oh this is a fun one.

While that +3 actually has a plus in front of it, that setting of 0 should actually be nerfing the tweeter (specifically) by -3db, and maybe that's what you meant. Unless JBL is doing something markedly different than I've historically experienced, that setting is purely toggling the relationship of power between the tweeter and mid, i.e. at the 0, the tweeter will be nerfed by -3db, and at +3db, the tweeter will be playing at the "same" level as the speaker.

My take/general default/suggestion? Before bolting up the door panels etc. fire up the radio, and listen set to it set at 0db and +3db. What should you be listening for? Listen to how loud the mid is, in relation to the tweeter. Set it to 0, then switch to +3. Do you notice the tweeter more than the mid or vice-versa, in either position, such that it sounds lopsided, like maybe the highs are too sharp/crisp? If so, avoid that setting. I usually prefer the mid to be louder than my tweeter, personally.

If you notice the tweeter is unusually shrill with the +3 setting, it'll be more noticeable later, set it to 0db. It honestly varies from speaker manufacturer to speaker manufacturer, specifically based on the tweeter design. Some are brighter/sharper than others. I also find the source of power (internal HU amp vs. external amp) makes a difference.

Hopefully this helps? It's a really weird thing to explain, I never really think about it because I always listen to things before buttoning it all up and will check that. I'm typically using external amps, and I'll use my amps/crossover/DSP to tweak things out. I don't believe my Club components had a setting on the crossover.

 

ok, my gut was telling me to try both settings for a listen test, before buttoning up, but not yet installed. Not a word stated, but I'd expect JBL to describe the 2 settings in their instruction pdf; then again, maybe its audiophile generic meta data thing.
Yes, @Shifty, correct; it is 0 or +3, which likely means it minimizes tweeter hi frequency compared to the 6" driver tweeter?
Adding to the cryptic settings, the expressed numeric value, dB, increases as volume [or output power] decreases... [at least thats according to VOL +/- buttons on my 40 yr old SONY home Amp/Receiver]. Not being an audio engineering educated person, thats just my best guess.

Anyway, can hardly wait to fire this system up. Just set the tweets in the door panels, but waiting for re-paint to finish and get truck in dr/way to install Mid/Woofs and replace door panels.

 

I might be jumping the gun, but I just mocked-up one side of the JBL Clubs to chk the 'Xover' settings [0db, +3db before buttoning up the door panel].
Didnt remove the Rt side Toyota speaks, just tuned the radio [fm, non-JBL] to all Front and all L or Rt. to compare to the 19yr old Toyota 4ohm's; found strongest FM music broadcast and lo and behold...not too good.
Toyota speaks sounded better than JBLs, not by a lot, but enough that I went over all wire terminals a few times to be sure of +/- polarity-continuity. Simple enough install: removed Y cable, installed Metra adaptor to the Toyota 'source' terminal w/other end into JBL Xover box, then downstream fr/Xover to new Mid & Tweet. Then leaned door panel against door to roll the radio BAL tune fr/Lt to Rt...[and to listen for Xover switch position preference]
While the JBLs arent horrible, they just dont project like the Toyota's in this mock-up; the Toyota's even projected a bit more Bass. Also, switching the Xover fr/0 to +3db made minimal difference, at least to my ear and I had to prop my ear against the tweet grill to hear it. Sounded a bit weak.
Im presuming the non-JBL Toyota HU may be the issue, since I had to raise VOL at least 1/3 more for the JBLs to achieve the same loudness as the Toyota speaks and still didnt sound as good as the Toyota speaks.
Dont know what the power output for Toyota HU is, but the Toyota speaks are stamped 4ohm/20W vs the JBLs 3ohm/95W.
Does that account for the obvious SQ/Loudness/weak Tweeter response difference?
Will talk to Cfield later today; got at least another 40 days for retn/exchnge.

 

If:

• Factory head unit
• Still using OEM JBL amp
• Installing aftermarket speakers

My best guess is, the JBL system in the AC, just like with the DC, is expecting a 2ohm load on the front channel(s), two front channels with the DC and one with the AC? (Question mark because I must assume the JBL system also uses the same Y-cable in the doors to split out to mid + tweeter).

If that's true, and the front channel on JBL systems is supposed to be 2ohm, and you're instead supplying it a 3ohm load, so 50% less load than OEM. Which could potentially account for a significant drop in sound output.

Do something for me, one of two things:

1. If you removed a Y-cable from the door, get me the part number taped to one of them **AND** look at the back of the OEM speakers, see if you can see the ohm rating on them (see pic below) for EACH speaker so I can figure out what load the amp had on it. Else get me the part number on the JBL sticker so I can try to look up/guesstimate the impedance.
2. If you have a multimeter and there is no Ohm rating on the back of the speaker (see pic below), set the multimeter to impedance/ohms, and with the speaker facing down, tap red lead to the right-hand terminal (right is usually but not always positive), and left-hand to black terminal on each to see the impedance. If the number comes back negative, flip your red and black. You may need to do this way, because I think the JBL just has a sticker on it.

​

 

I was just reading back through this thread and it looks like the OP truck has "non jbl, thru oem amp [fujitsu?]".

 

Thanks for that, I saw JBL and thought that's where he was going.

So he has the same system I did. Weird. @ps8820 walk me through your wiring. What adapter you used to get a feed to the crossover from the harness connector on the door, and how you ran out from there.

My OEM speakers were 6ohm front mid + 4ohm front tweeter, and a rear 4ohm mid. And I know this because I gave them away over here (the impedance for the tweeter is on the back of the metal bracket).

Front channel was wired in parallel, the Y-cable had a barrel crimp under the electrical tape. So you're dealing with a 4ohm and 6ohm speaker in parallel, i.e. our math is impedance = 1/(1/6 + 1/4) == 1/(0.1666 + 0.25) == 1/(0.41666) == 2.4ohm

You're replacing a 2.4 ohm load up front with a 3ohm load (or potentially 4ohm load if someone chose a different brand, which would be even worse output).

You're talking about a little more than ½ ohm difference in output, or a 20% drop in load the amp is seeing. That could amount to a fairly sizeable difference in output on the front channel. In the rear channel you should notice better output. Not only that, but consider that you're running a 3ohm driver in the rear where a 4ohm driver lived previously, so it's going to be louder with lower impedance, combined with a front pair that's higher impedance, i.e. 20% less load and thus quieter in front, that's going to make for a lopsided experience.

Try - while it's still buttoned up - fading the factory radio to +2 FRONT and see if that balances things out by adjusting the front channel down. I seem to recall doing that on mine.

Using amp bypass with aftermarket radio, I actually need to fade a little more rear to get the soundstage correct.

But once you get an aftermarket head unit in there, it should be imperceptable. Your head unit is going to feed front and rear channels the same output, we have no idea what the OEM Fujitsu amp is truly doing.

 

non-JBL HU.
Amp under rear pass seat. [fujitsu?]

$18 metra 72-8104 speaker wire adapters for select toyota vehicles - 4 total adapters

metra 72-8104
disconnected Y [not w/truck now-will post pic of Y later]
Metra connected @ door signal feed molex, other end to JBL Xover input, then JBLXover output x2: [1]JBL SQ64 MID and [1] JBL Tweet.
Fairly simple and per JBL inst sht.

Yes stock Toyota speakr stampd on magnet 4ohm. 20W
Will chk old Tweet for ohm rating later.

 

Front tweeter should be 4ohm. Front mid should be 6ohm. Rear mid 4ohm. I may be reversing the rear/front mids, and it's actually 6ohm out back. I don't recall.

If the two front speakers are 4ohm and rear was 6 ohm, that would make it more noticeable, given the the front was actually at 2ohm load with the rear at 6ohm using the Fujitsu amp. If you put a 3ohm load up front where it was 2ohm -33% impedance), then dropped a 3 ohm in the rear where it was 6ohm (+100%) impedance, you'll potentially be twice as loud out back and 33% quieter in front.

I can't imagine they'd have put a 2ohm load on the front channel and 6 ohm on the rear, though. a 2.5ish ohm load up front and 4ohm out back would make more sense.

 

set out to do fronts 1st. This 'minor performance' JBL event stopd my install. Want to iron it out b4 doing rears.

Front MID


ToyotaTweets /

$18 Metra 72-8104 Speaker Wire Adapters for Select Toyota Vehicles - 4 Total Adapters

Metra 72-8104 adaptor

 

Y cable





Drvr door- temp install JBL

 

The tweeters are 4ohm, that's stamped into the bracket seen in your reply #34 above. So that means both front speakers are 4ohm.

Your Y-cable is part 82346-0c010 which means the two front speakers are absolutely running in parallel, not series. Which, unless my math is wrong, OR Toyota is doing some fuckery with inline components somewhere I'm not seeing, the OEM setup with Fujitsu amp is (4ohm + 4ohm in parallel =) 2ohm on the front channel and 6ohm on the rear channel, if we use my rear speakers as a reference. That makes zero sense to me, but ... it does explain what's up.

Nutshell:

• Fujitsu amp is apparently expecting a 2ohm load from the front door, is getting a 3ohm load (thus pushing less power)
• Fujitsu amp is still seeing the 6ohm load it expects in the back if you haven't upgraded (thus pushing same power)
• If you upgraded the rears with 3ohm drivers, it'd be half the expected load (thus pushing more power to rear while pushing less power to front)

To overcome the impedance imbalance in this case, two options really:

1. Fade to Front at 2 or +3 on the factory head unit (whichever sounds better), so you have more focus is on the front speakers to tie you over, and move the crossover to +3db (which is really +0, but I digress)
2. Install the amp bypass and an aftermarket head unit now, and know the 6ohm load presented by the rear door speakers are going to sound lower, overall.

Please understand: This problem imbalance problem will be worse if you go with 4ohm drivers, which is essentially any brand that's not JBL, Infinity, and some PowerBass drivers.

It's been so long ago now I don't remember having to fade out, but I surely would've done the exact same, essentially I would've done #1, then proceeded to #2 ASAP.

 

So w/all JBL Clubs installed, the Toyota HU is underpowered, but most modern HU's [of the Big5] will likely resolve the less than impressive current performance?

 

Not really what I'm saying. What I'm saying is this:

If the current system (i.e. OEM amp) is expecting the speaker load to be:

• 2ohms on the front channel
• 6ohms on the rear channel

And that's what it's geared to support, but you go and drop speaker loads that are:

• 3ohms on the front channel
• 3ohms on the rear channel

The amp is going to be moderately underpowering the front channel and significantly overpowering the rear channel, I guess is how to phrase it?

The impedance of your speakers dictates to a great extent (and I'm oversimplifying this a bit) how hard the amp will push the speakers. For speakers at a higher impedance value than expected, it's going to push less-hard. For speakers at a lower impedance value than expected, it's going to push more-hard.

Again. You can get to a reasonably normal listening experience by using the fader to shift the focus of the speakers more to the underpowered (i.e. front) speakers, thus taking away from the rear.

 

Ok, understood, sort of...
So, put another way:
Is the noticable better SQ of the 4ohm Toyota speaks/HU, not the volume, a result of a better matched sys, such that JBL Club 3ohm just too much for the Toy HU?

BTW: Anyone ever figure out the power output of the Fujitsu [presumably] amp? ?

 

If you have the Fujitsu/OEM amp, the head unit is providing ZERO power to your speakers. I can't tell you how important it is to understand this.

If you have OEM amp, your radio only provides a low-level signal to the amp. The amp amplifies the signal it receives and powers your speakers. It's really important to get this concept in your head: Your head unit is providing the sound signal to your OEM amp. The amp is then powering the speakers.

If you really want your factory head unit to power your speakers, it's possible but I think it's silly. I'm not going to sit here and type it ALL out, but I'll leave this here as a lead for other people who may have a wild hair on their ass.

Almost all Toyota OEM head units are setup as you see below: There's a low-level (amp feeding) output harness, and high level (speaker feeding) output harness. Some have an (optional) steering wheel control input. This is true for 2005-2006 (at least), and the rest of what I'm typing here *should* apply to 2005-2006 also.

In theory ...

If your system is amplified, you can switch over so the head unit is powering your speakers and not the amp.

Two ways to do that, but a quick note: : With Metra part numbers the "70" and "71" prefix is important. Parts starting with "70-" are intended to plug directly onto the OEM harness, so you can add a radio. Parts starting "71-" are intended to plug directly into the OEM radio, i.e. they're OEM replacement harnesses, like, if your factory harness was to get cut off and you need to restore it.

Option 1:

You'd need to buy this harness: Metra 71-1761.
That harness will plug directly into the speaker level out port.
Now you need to run wires from the either purple/green/grey/white wires on the 1761 harness to your speakers.

Option 2:

You'd need to buy the same harness from Option 1. You'd then need to buy the JBL amp bypass harness: Metra 70-8121, and take its eight purple/green/grey/white wires and solder them to the matching leads on the 1761 harness. **IN THEORY** this should work, but it's important to note the head unit DOES get its power from one of the two harnesses plugged into the amplifier, so you may need to sit down and think through the logistics of it all before execution. (It's gotta be possible)

​

 

Ok, appreciate your explanations but Im not trying to retro-engineer old components; ive had no problem w/understanding the 'flow diagram radio signal to fujitsu; fujitsu amplified signal to speaks- thats basic and well stated waaay bk in 'So, you wanna buy...'.
I just wanna know if the substandard performance of the new JBLs powered by the ol'fujitsu is as good as it gets for the new JBLs until i install a modern HU. ?
And, provided my wiring per what ive ascertained here, and per C-field & JBL instrctn's, will i risk damage to anything, other than my ears?
I can live w/the comparitively 'shallow' output sounds for now since I know a modern HU is in near term...as in either ilx507 [18W, if i feel spendy] or a basic pioneer 2600nex [frugal but at least 14W].
Thats the crux of this biscuit.
Thx your 'shifty-ness' and please send the invoice to my accountant.

 

No damage.

Tweak the fader to make it more appealing, and kick the x-over to +3db for a little perceived loudness up front.

Anything you can do to expedite aftermarket HU and amp bypass will be a fast path to sanity, it sounds like.

 

Moving ahead then, and looking for the C-field MemorialDay sales...
Thx "Le Shifty-matic"...appreciate you cutting thru my 'purple haze'.

 

@Shifty -right again!
Just pulled rear mids and they are 6ohm.

"...
If the current system (i.e. OEM amp) is expecting the speaker load to be:

• 2ohms on the front channel
• 6ohms on the rear channel..."

or requoting fr/few posts bk:

" Front tweeter should be 4ohm. Front mid should be 6ohm. Rear mid 4ohm. I may be reversing the rear/front mids, and it's actually 6ohm out back. I don't recall.

If the two front speakers are 4ohm and rear was 6 ohm, that would make it more noticeable, given the the front was actually at 2ohm load with the rear at 6ohm using the Fujitsu amp. If you put a 3ohm load up front where it was 2ohm -33% impedance), then dropped a 3 ohm in the rear where it was 6ohm (+100%) impedance, you'll potentially be twice as loud out back and 33% quieter in front. "

 

Not yet full install [6 spkr] and expecting the full JBL Club64 system will be no worse and maybe hypothetically better than toyota oem`s, once all 6 JBLs in place, together w/ much better SQ once a modern HU is installed.

Along that line:
Since I dont listen at loud [subjective] volumes, but just enuf to overcome cab noise to be able to hear all of the broadcast or recorded music sound. Not studio or living room quality but as close as I can w/out intro of distortion, clipping, etc.
From my knowledgebase, admittedly minimal in car audio, Im going on presumption that good to great Bass projection, w/out having to raise volume to the distortion threshold in our imperfect FGT cabs, will only be achieved by adding an ExtAmp + subwfr to the install.

Under my current scenario, I had planned install of updated HU of 14-18W, w/out ExtAmp.
Sticking w/ that plan, has anyone tried this w/addition of a separately powerd Sub like this:
JBL BassPro SL 2Compact powered subwoofer with 8" sub and 125-watt amp

sounds good on paper, xcept for $ and availability. Would seem to be a good alternative to finding a well made sub enclosure to fit under passenger or driver seat, a simple plugnplay, as well as maybe a good match to JBL Club SQ system Ive installed.

 

JBL Clubs SQ into this AccessCab: Fully installed AND.....not much better than 19 yo-OEMs..noticeably missing Bass that the Toyota OEMs had...not much, but defintely less. Not altogether a surprise, given all discussed above in this thread.
Tested both FM and 3 Cds [i kno, what'er those?] Van Morrison [Ive been Working], HowlinWolf [Poor Boy] and Stones [Cant you hear me knocking?]. Not sure why I played all 3, since if one lacked Bass, all 3 were Base-less; still, i enjoyed listening thru the new JBLs.
I'm just reporting results here in case anyone else loads up the JBL Club SQs with the nonJBL HU feeding thru the Fujitsu amp. And to confirm what @Shifty already clarified thruout this thread.
Just gotta bite the bullet sooner than later and plug a new HU in, and for that matter, either the JBL Sub-Amp unit ref'd above, or some other Bass enhancement.
Related: Ive probly said this a few times already, but cant help but repeating how impressive the HU/Speak Sys in my Corolla HBk performs: It kicks some ass for projection and Bass, but to ovecome road noise in that little can, I do have to turn it up to 80-85% VOL; then it barely starts to distort. Overall, Well done Toyota.

 

What model Excelon do you have? I'm considering a Sony AX-9000es /9500es or Kenwood Excelon DMX958XR to run these JBLs (JBL Stadiums would be ideal, but cost twice as much)

 

...Continuing the original thread, AND
Going off on a SQ tangent fr/earlier here:
"Related: Ive probly said this a few times already, but cant help but repeating how impressive the HU/Speak Sys in my Corolla HBk performs: It kicks some ass for projection and Bass [for a stock sys], but to ovecome road noise in that little can, I have to turn it up to 80-85% VOL, where it barely starts to distort. But overall, Well done Toyota."
I searched for info on this stock Toyota Corolla SE Hbk system [to try and emulate or up its specs for my SR5] and found some info [AI], if anyone out there happens to be as impressed as I am about it. Maybe biggest contributor to the SQ in this Corolla is the small cabin [compared to FGTs] and likely better resonance/road noise deadening, given 15yrs newer treatments by Toyota.
AFAIK, the system is JBL designed [but not trademarked], 6 speaker [Dash tweets [3.25"?], 6.75" doors Mids-Bass/8" HU, Amp Output unknown, No Subwoof to my knowledge].
It pumps out amazingly good full range + bass + volume, for not being the "...JBL Premium Audio system with Clari-Fi, which uses eight speakers..."
Anyway, thot Id put that out there...