Those poor guys

It’s entirely possible.

with what’s happening with GM and their engines blowing due to the 0w-20 water they are putting in the engines, and then recommending the swap to 0w-40 it’s not out of the question.


LSPI resistant higher temperature rated oil (0w-40), top tier 93 oct and a prayer?

makes sense to me.

 

Granted I’m not familiar with the new low tension rings.
I’ve seen 3 engines, one right after the other, with pre ignition damage (390 ford heavy duty, big block Chevy, and an international gas engine; bus engines destroyed when fuel
supplier delivered some bad gas to their storage tanks). They not pretty.
I would lean more towards detonation if it were engines I was familiar working on.
Took a bit of looking but finally found picture of piston damage from pre-ignition like i saw in the bus engines.

 

LSPI on these engines would certainly knock and mushroom the bearings out
LSPI on these engines would certainly bend rods and window blocks
I am not confident as i have never held the pistons in my hand, but Toyotas use of forged internals on many of their assemblies in the past would lead me to believe these could potentially have forged pistons. If they are, they would resist melting holes in them like a standard cast piston. The picture you posted is likely a hypoeutectic casting, just a standard low cost low quality aluminum casting. I would suspect the Tundras pistons are either a hypereutectic casting or even some exotic blend of aluminum and silicon for strength.

"Further research studies learned that engine oil droplets are the most common cause of stochastic pre-ignition. Namely, during a piston’s compression stroke, microscopic droplets of engine oil enter the combustion chamber through the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. The engine oil mixes with freshly injected fuel. When compressed by piston rings, the blend burns before the actual ignition process begins, causing abnormal combustion.
That causes the rapid growth in pressure in the combustion chamber that acts against the piston, resulting in severe engine damage. Pistons, rings, cylinder heads, and conrods are supposed to absorb the pressure shock. That is why they are likely to get damaged in the process. Such high growth of pressure in the engine may also lead to its severe failure. "


Also look at this: Found a dealer who split a warrantied engine and is selling parts out of it individually. Notice how the two pistons on the left look different from the others? Are we having a ring gap sealing issue allowing oil on top of the pistons? That is a crap ton of build-up on a 15,000 mile piston but two of them look much cleaner.

Vehicle Description:MAGNETIC GRAY,1G3,4DR,09/22,CAPSTONE

• Condition: 15k

 

Leaning on what we've been talking about, the possibility of too thin oil (0w-20 water weight oil), toyota spec (which probably loses its viscosity and down grades after a thousand miles or so), is simply not adequately holding up its film strength and heat tolerance in the oil rings, frying, letting oil past into the cylinder, causing significant LSPI problems on the engine...now....the question is, how do the bores look?

I'd like to see more images of the cylinder bore, as well as the oil rings on the sides of these pistons...but the discoloration tells somewhat of a tale.

You get micro detonations in the bore and oil rings, enough debris gets to the sump...gets through the engine, and bam..spun bearing.

 

https://youtu.be/VBRS_cffEhM?t=1453

Time stamped for your viewing pleasure, watch the next 3 mins of this video, shows rings as he pulls the piston out. Rings are all seized up, ring lands look terrible.
The skirts are eating the cylinder walls up, an obvious sign of pre-ignition rocking the piston in the bore. Uncontrolled for sure.

 

That's all I need to know. I'm fairly confident now in my change to 0w-40 and only running 93 in the engine. The OE spec oil is just not up to the task thermally. Breaks down, loses the hydrodynamic wedge/oil film, vaporizes with high cylinder temps and pressure and bam. You've got LSPI, and all sorts of other things.

Pennzoil Ultra platinum from here on out.

If only they made a 0W-50 or a 5w-50.

 

Just got back from my lunch break, and I grabbed some pics. First, I was mistaken, the boost gauge does have numbers on my usual display. The oil and transmission temps do not have numbers, but the boost gauge has half assed ones.

Anyway, I floored it from 30 to get to 55, and then again from about 25 to get to 55. Both times it seams to peak around the 17 to 18 PSI mark, but as speed is gained after 40-45 MPH it starts to bleed off the boost.

First two pics are the first run from 30-55.







The next 3 pics are from the 25-55 run.











This was with foot to the floor driving. With normal acceleration the boost is staying below 10 PSI.

 

The thinner oils are able to be "sprayed" easier in the tiny squirters like the piston squirters and timing chain squirters. I think the thin oils running thru the tiny 3/64" passages and squirters was one of the major moves towards thin oils. This along with friction on the rotating assembly robbing fuel mileage +/- 1% at best they started going with thinner oils. I watched a video long ago of a complete and extensive tear down of the 1Gr-Fe 4.0 and the video producer claimed and showed the timing chain "squirters" and they are a tiny hole that squirts oil at the timing chain. He hypothesized that these tiny holes were one of the reasons Toyota went to the thin oils. I also think the friction and fuel mileage might change with the thinner oil just like dry sump oil systems in race cars produce more power. With the crank sloshing around in thick oil, it produces friction. This friction robs power. Robbed power = loss in fuel mileage. The thinner oils may actually give you a slight measurable change in fuel mileage but i surely wouldnt risk my engine for a single mpg more fuel mileage.

I personally started seeing the problems with the Fords and Hondas using the thin oils a year or two ago and have kept all my vehicles at 5w-30 synthetic and honestly have been contemplating going to 10-30 or 10-40. I dont care about mpg i care about reliability.

 

That checks. CAFE standards ruined reliability.

 

Nice
Thanks
Watch the boost while cruising without throttle input. Thats where i think the major at risk situations are, if you are crusing 10% throttle, and the load increases like a hill climb, the trans doesnt downshift, but the turbos start to build boost without any change in throttle or RPM. I think this is the danger zone.

The bleeding boost off as speed increases is smart, its a load thing. At higher speeds your load increases due to wind resistance. They are bleeding boost off the faster you accelerate in order to try to keep detonation at bay and keep IAT under control due to the load and wind resistance.

 

I guess the thing for me is, I decided to get an extended Toyota warranty with this truck, since I decided I needed a new towing truck, and at the time the Tundra seemed to be the least objectionable option for my towing needs, and the warranty would make this whole shit sandwich Toyota’s problem, hopefully, if something happens. Also with the thought that I’m ok with some inconvenience if the truck is out of commission, and also that I’m willing to accept the risk/likelihood of losing some money if I change my mind.

With all of that said, with the extended warranty, it seems like I will be having my local dealership do all of the maintenance, and that’s fine they are a good place. But, I will have to see if they are willing to change the oil specs. Somehow I doubt they would be willing to do that, or perhaps it will affect the administration of the warranty even if they are willing. So what I’m saying is maybe it’s time for me to just get a Prius and build a cabin. One that isn’t that nice so if it burns up, I don’t care.

 

It would be nice to see what the WGD is in those conditions. From what I have experienced, these turbos don't light off really until 2-2500rpm, and then at that point you should be well out of the low load zone.

Additionally, with the AWIC that these have, seems like Toyota keeps the IATs around 95*. See the attached data log from @eddiefromcali and I were discussing.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/3rd...d-to-rule-them-all.157755/page-2#post-3954062

 

I've got some little hills around town. I'll try to get out and cruise up one to see what boost does in that scenario. If memory serves, it downshifts for anything but a tiny hill. We'll see.

 

You really think the IAT stays at 95ish after those runs? The beginning of that log the IAT is 100, then after the first run it drops to 93 and then hovers at 95 the rest of the run. You really think those turbos running 160-180 IAT hot side can run thru the AWIC with water temps that cant be below ambient temp, and somehow get the IAT down to 95? Was he running ice in his coolant tank? If ambient temps are 80-90, the water in the coolant tank is going to be at best, 90-100. How are you going to get 160 degree air going thru the aftercooler which is likely at 90-100degrees, and get the IAT to 95? I checked and didnt see an ambient temp on the logs. AWIC at best have about a 75 degree swing, so sure it could get down from 160 down to 95, i see it, but what was ambient temps when he made that log? If ambient temps were 55 that da it makes sense, if ambient temps were 90, i dont see it happening.

I DID however see the AFR on boosted pulls. YOIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!! That MF is LEAN.

 

DI cars man...they run funny.

 

lean? 10:1 @ WOT on top end is perfectly fine, especially since its at 8ish psi at that point...most of the pulls, the turbo peaks at 2-3k rpm and drops off to about half of peak at the top end.

and the AIT is before the IC....we dont have an AIT2 PID for post IC temps

 

i saw 13.8-14.3 at 100% throttle in boost in that log

10:1 AFR would be billowing smoke out the tailpipe at WOT and have black soot on everyones fenders.

 

So you are saying the 95 degree IAT reading was PRE aftercooler? So that turbo is building 15psi of boost and only reaching 95 degrees of air temp? When you are running an IAT on a turbo system pre intercooler you would see a spike in air temps while at full booost and shortly after. The log showed a pretty level IAT before, during, and after boost. This does not follow typical IATs on any other turbo vehicle i have seen. I'm certainly not saying you are wrong but.... I'd like to look into this data a little further. Are we sure this wasnt IAT going into the turbo? Using the MAF meter to tell ambient temp?

 

that’s where my GTI would take IATs. Sensor was right after the throttle body.

makes the most sense, from a control strategy unless you’re monitoring the individual cylinder intake runners.

 

Its getting air readings from the intake box...thats why you see stable temps...theyre usually at or 2-3* above ambient if I havent idled for long. I played around with my S&B lids and temps spiked asap. My prior boosted vehicle also took temps at the MAF, and then after the IC and the delta was significant after multiple pulls

 

oh i c
so we dont have actual temps of the IAT after the turbo, on the hot side or cold side of the aftercooler.
copy

 

Correct...we just have L&R intake boxes.

 

How did you get that display? Is there a place to change to it?

 

I assume you are asking me? Quoting or tagging helps people know.


With the truck running, but not moving, go to the settings (gear symbol) in the left menu of the dash. If you scroll down until you see the option "Customize Right Side" and you can change it there.

 

What I'd really like to know is if that can be swapped out to replace the analog cluster.

 

I doubt it. IIRC it's got it's own brain and interface for stuff that the analog doesn't. I could be wrong, though.