Need help with OEM wheel upgrade

Keep in mind the more you lift, the higher your center of gravity. With the drop bracket lifts (4-6") you can ditch the plastic top hat spacers they use above your coil and shock assembly, in favor of extended length coilovers (not to be confused with extended travel, although they could be both). The extended length of the shocks will provide the lift to the suspension, instead of the spacers on top of the stock ride height coil and shock assembly. The drop bracket essentially lowers the position of the LCAs. Remember it's all about geometry. So the drop brackets are typically like 4 inches and support a lift of 4-6 inches.

So basically 4" drop bracket lift kit gets you a 4" lift, using some less than desirable parts.
Add up to 2" more lift with UCAs and lift coils/shocks or coilovers. Which will also articulate better than the setup they give you in the kit. Now you're just throwing money at it.

The DB lifts look great, but will make you more tippy off-road. I wouldn't go with skinny tires on a 6" lift, personally, I'd go 12.5" for stability.
Also DB lifts will require you to make cuts to your stock sub frame.

 

I actually do have sliders. It's in my signature, just not the picture. I have welded on .120 DOM sliders. I also have skid row 1/4" steel fully belly (3 piece) skid plate set.

I have an addicted off-road high clearance tube front winch bumper and a high clearance rear bumper with the fenders cut behind the rear wheel.

My problem is I run with a group of guys who have side by sides on 32s and 33s, as well as guys who have Rubicon Wranglers on 37s. I find that I'm the guy who has trouble getting up certain ledges. Not due to a lack of traction but due to my frame rails hit in the front before my tires can get up on the ledge. It's irritating. So much to the point that (and I can't believe I'm about to say this), but I've kicked around the idea of buying a Wrangler Rubicon and putting 35s or 37s on it. I've just been a Toyota guy for 20 years and I used to walk all over Wranglers back in the day with my Tacoma. Now I find myself not able to keep up with these Rubicons and it's frustrating. However when I look at the reliability of these Wranglers, it makes me want to throw up. The only one in my opinion that's halfway decent is a TJ with a 4.0L and manual transmission, which honestly I don't want to go back to a manual (my Tacoma 4x4 V6 was a manual). Rock crawling with it was a nightmare!

Oh by the way, I would agree the rock crawling is moderate compared to Moab and such out there. I go to Hidden Adventures Off-road park in Marble Falls, Tx and Barnwell near Gilmer, Tx. I can do almost everything at Hidden Adventures but Barnwell has more extreme stuff in my opinion that my set-up can't handle... YET...

 

Sounds like you need a solid axle swap! That way you can push the front axle forward for better approach angle of those ledges and better tire clearance for 37s. Bracket lift and cutting it for bigger tires may work, but it's definitely not the best or strongest way to do it. And then you're still stuck with shitty angle stock CVs and very weak 7.5" diff. Both of which will be easy to break with the v8 turning 37s on the rocks. Just my 2 cents.

Don't you dare use the "J" word around here! Lol, the only reason they're halfway worth a shit is the solid front axle. And factory lockers, sway bar disconnects and ultra low transfer case gears depending on model. And you nailed it on the reliability... Almost any toyota with half those things will be able to out wheel a jeep with the right driver.

Side note. I did try the 37s game on my 06. The truck was just sitting and I wanted to build a beater. The only size tires I had were 37s. 5100s leveled in front. Stock rear. Lots and lots of cutting. It rubs when I turn full lock because I had to run spacers. 15" wheels don't clear the brakes. I want to try stock 17" wheels and spacers. I probably wouldn't rub then. Would I recommend it or do it again? Probably not. Will I switch to 35s for better clearance and less fear of the front diff exploding? Yes probably lol. With a solid axle swap I wouldn't hesitate to run 37"+ tires. I hope to get a d60 and 42s under this rig in the very distant future.

 

I'm not the expert on bracket lifts, but if you want to gab with a few people on here running them, I can tag a few folks to get the convo started.

Long and short: AVOID THE 4.5" LIFT OPTION. They use a spacer on top of the knuckle that's sketchy as fuck. It seems more geared toward mall crawlers. The 5" lift, as I'm sure you can see there, includes a longer knuckle, and is probably why the kit is so more $$$.

Both kits (RCD sells one too, IIRC, either 5" or 6") require you to do irreversible cutting to the front/center crossmember which will leave you at a point of no return, unless you want to weld in a new center crossmember up front later. I can find pics of what one of these lifts looks like from the front so you can better grasp how they're achieving the lift, angles, etc. or maybe a person currently running can share.

With the way they manage the lift, the CV angles are waaaaay better (less steep angle) which plays in your favor, IMHO, from a wear and tear perspective. Especially if you make the mistake of running aftermarket CV axles with inferior rubber (chubber/chinese rubber) which is prone to cracking and separation within a year or two.

I can't speak to using coilovers with this kit.

Again, I can't stress enough, they may be discontinuing the kit - contact the manufacturer and ask questions. I feel like someone on here recently needed to replace something on their Tuff Country lift and found it'd been disco'd. It may only be one of the two, or maybe it's RCD that disco'd theirs, but ... Be aware, this may be an issue for replacement parts, so ask before you drop the $$$.

 

Actually, I see @Hi06silver is running the 5" lift and is also running ICONs. See this thread: https://www.tundras.com/threads/hi06silvers-unf-ck-my-tuff-country-lift-thread.90187/

He's one of the folks I often tag in threads about bracket lifts (hope it doesn't piss him off) because he can offer real-world input.

 

Oh then get the gas tank skid and let her eat. Solid axle is the only way you’ll keep up. I had a 1-2 mile head start leaving hells revenge on a rubicon and he caught me by the time we got to the end. In the go fast stuff he couldn’t keep up but that’s where the IFS does better.

 

Bracket lifts can crawl, but that high center of gravity is not fun unless the trucks got some good weight to keep it balanced. I think a little more front lift, archive rear shock relocation, modest tire will get him closest without the headache. I actually removed my bracket lift on the last truck and it wheeled so much better.

 

Nah man, you're good Shifty you've helped everyone plenty including myself. I try to help where I can.

As far as the difference between the 2 TC drop bracket lifts, like Shifty said stay away from the 4.5 period, especially if you're wheeling it.
My truck.had that on it when I bought it. The more I learned about it the more I felt .had to do something about it from a safety stand point. imo may be as bad as non-oem lbjs. when shit breaks it takes other shit with. I don't wheel so I have no real world experience with my current set up and articulation, rubbing etc. I did have 35's x12.5 on it when I got it without rubbing but I wasn't crawling either. From what I now know I'd personally not have opted for this style of lift but going back isn't really in the cards and I don't need to. It is more "top-heavy" with the 5" and something in the ball park of 34" tires.


Edit: wheel specs 17x8.5 -6mm 6x139.7. these are not factory wheels. I believe the minimum backspacing for both Tuff country lifts are -4.5mm per their site

 

So how bad do you rub at full articulation? How much lift do you have? What else did you have to do in order to minimize or stop rubbing? Also what is your offset on your wheels, and which wheels do you have with those 35x10.50s? You obviously figured out how to make it work....

 

You have no idea how bad I want to do this! It was my original plan, but when I called around to get pricing on it, I believe the cheapest quote I got was $12k. I could probably do it myself, but the honest issue is I have a touch of OCD. So when it comes to pioneering something like that, without exact measurements and so on (customizing it), it would drive me insane! I would question everything and probably end up changing it a dozen times, and even then, I would constantly be going over everything, every night, while I lay in bed, wondering if I missed something. It would drive me crazy and I know it. Now if someone wrote up a VERY DETAILED build, where I didn't have to customize stuff up myself, and could just use their precise measurements, I could do it, and would do it.

Yeah the only engine I think that was decent was their 4.0L. However if I went the Jeep route, I would probably swap in a LS 5.3L Chevy later on when the engine took a dump. That's one thing I can say about Jeeps, is you pretty much never hit a point where you have nowhere else to go from your current modifications. I feel stuck with my Tundra at the moment short of doing a $12k axle swap.

Interesting enough, I believe TFL did a video on a 4Runner that they chopped the fenders big time, and ran like 40" tires on the stock front IFS diff with a locker in it! It made it all the way through the Rubicon trail or something like that. Now they openly admitted that they were careful on the throttle and used a lot of common sense. The tires were like super sticky Iroks too and aired way down. I was shocked to see how strong the IFS diff was. This I believe was on the V8 4Runner.

 

Here is the videos of the 4Runner with stock IFS diff and 40s by the way if anyone is curious:

https://youtu.be/XGhpXYlRZZg?si=hJMkCAZlR-XD1gk3

https://youtu.be/HlfgViCPKTg?si=LuHyhlUZ1FviXvih

https://youtu.be/2tGsUG2L_hc?si=YuM2G0MIHqrZCxGv

https://youtu.be/R8COnNJ9EZ8?si=tLHpPkVQk2kZ7cYp

https://youtu.be/gI9PIc0ASAo?si=P7DnFInPk21uazkG

https://youtu.be/rOUxvLGkWIA?si=-bOuMl5i10386wJq

 

I haven't actually made it work yet. It works flawlessly on-road and light off-road. I still need to remove the coilovers and use a jack under the LCAs, to see where everything rubs at full articulation. But I suspect once I install the 1"body lift I got from 4Crawler, that I should be good.

You quoted me stating the wheels and their stats. They are MST Time Attack 17"x9" -10mm offset.

My current set up in from is King coilovers, SPC UCAs (set forward to the second to last setting), Solo LCAs (set for max caster), Wheelers Off-Road superbumps.

So far I've trimmed a lot of sheet metal at the front & rear of the front wheel wells, as well as hammered the rears of the front wheel wells.

The rear tires seem to fit perfectly with a 3" lift. I've even got 1.25" Spidertrax on them , because I hated that the rear axle was narrower than the front.

 

Skimmed through the video. You're talking long travel, rear shock hoop/relocation, major cutting and fabricating, and a vehicle that can accept 35's without having to tub the firewalls. I'm tracking about 14-15 grand before even considering the cost of the rear end, transfer case, and regear. That's if you can install and weld everything yourself. I will never talk someone out of good suspension, but for that money on a crawler it's definitely apparent you'd get more performance out of a SAS. I personally don't think you're going to have a "great" crawling first gen without some custom fabrication for a suspension setup. Long travel will only get you about 12" of 4wd travel up front. Shock relocation could get you 12" of rear travel. Spring under/bed cage could get you probably ~16" of rear travel, but not ideal for crawling. If money was no object SAS and rear coilover conversion will get you the best results, but there's only 3-4 shops I know of in the state I'd trust with that kind of custom setup. B2P Motorsports, Tribe 16, Duggy's Garage, Smith Offroad.

 

4Lo Fab

 

I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut on this one lol.

 

Brandin is a good dude, makes some cool stuff and has a sick crawler. I been wheeling with him several times, although his rig is now infinitely more capable than mine. Dude also reinforced my Skid Row tranny skid

 

Oh I'm not judging his character and I've seen some of his stuff online. Not saying he's a bad dude or a bad fabricator overall at all because obviously he's doing some pretty heavy stuff that's holding up. I just can't stamp my approval on it.

 

Bro... I would never trust Duggys Garage! I can tell you some crap about them! They did some work for me for awhile when I had more money than time. Literally replaced my entire rear brakes (drums, shoes, everything) for like $750 approximately. Anyways, I brought my truck back in to them for a different issue, 6 weeks later after they just did the brakes. It had only 150 miles on it since they had it. They showed me a quote for my rear brakes and said "bro your rear brakes are toast, and really need to be replaced...". In my head I was like WTF?! So instead of just calling him out, I asked him, did a mechanic inspect them and verify all this? To which he answered yes. I made him show me the quote and took pictures. Then after I had proof, I told him to look up my last visit... 6 weeks ago. He looked it up, and was like, "oh shit". I was like, "yeah, you can say that again... So why are y'all lying to me?!". He had no answer. I told him I wanted to talk to the manager or owner, and a short Filipino or Asian guy came to talk to me. Not sure if that's the owner or manager. I told him everything, was calm, and polite. His response was "ok, so what do you want me to do?" With an attitude like I was inconveniencing him or something. I told him "are you serious? I need to explain to you that maybe you should get to the bottom of why either your mechanic, sales rep, or both are lying to a customer and/or scamming them?!". He then irritatedly repeated his question, and I said "nevermind... I don't trust y'all anymore... I'll fix the truck myself". Like I said, I have pictures, and receipts to prove all this by the way. They actually had my truck featured on their Facebook page years ago after doing that brake work. They didn't ask me if they could feature it either, but that didn't really bother me.

 

Interesting. I guess I don’t hear much about them since they’re pretty far from me. Used to be a good shop I guess. But that being said the theme of issues from a lot of Texas shops seems to be similar to your situation. I’ve heard horror stories from even some of the most recommended shops. Sorry you had to deal with that.

 

Oh I've got one, but I won't put them down publicly, because I run into the guy on the trails and at events all the time. I try to the remane neutral with em. But I'll never use this particular Toyota off-roading shop in Houston again.

 

This about your diff shenanigans?

 

Yes.

 

Is the rig red? Hahaha

 

One of em is

 

Yeah I have to call them out, because honestly, I don't want anyone else to possibly get done like that. They had no idea I knew anything about working on vehicles, and I suspect now, they probably recommend stuff be replaced, that probably doesn't need to be replaced, simply to bring in more money. It just so happened that they screwed up very noticeably here, and because of that, lost all my trust. If anyone does choose to use them, I would 100% go out in the shop and make them show you what the issue is. I would then also verify that they indeed replaced what they said they were going to replace. Then most likely you will be ok. However when I have to do that, and no longer trust the shop, I just prefer using someone else. The straw that broke the camel's back was honestly the management acting like it wasn't a big deal. This basically tells me that management is most likely aware of this, and doesn't have a problem with it.

 

Man I really want to hear this story. If you don't want to write it on here, you might have to text me

 

the one thing I hate about these local shops is if you don’t have a newer rig they don’t treat you the same as one of these 5th gen 4runner bros. I also judge shops based on what products they push especially suspension. Just cause you can bolt it up doesn’t mean you know jack shit about suspension.

 

is your friend for OE wheels and wheel info.

Pretty much everything 4runner, tacoma, tundra will fit. Use this site to verify. Just pay attention to offset.

The site also has some fancy tire/wheel clearance tool for checking non OE combinations.

 

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