Leaf spring upgrade?

Hey @bulltrout! I'll be installing the same setup soon thanks to your post here and @shifty` wealth of knowledge. I have the ATS HD leaf springs, the Bilstein 5100s all around and the 2884 OME springs on the way. I have a 2000 AC limited 4x4 with a camper shell and heavy wooden drawer system in the back (~350lbs constant load).

I'm curious about a few things:

1. How are your UCA's holding up in the front?
2. How did alignment numbers pan out for you?
3. Do you have anything like sumosprings or durobumps to soften the harshness for the leafsprings?

I'm looking into getting the JBAs (again, thanks @shifty` for all the info on that) but don't want to spend the $$ if it's not needed. My UCAs and UBJs are in good shape right now.

I already bought the extended sway bark links from suspensionmaxx (againnn, thank you @shifty` haha)

Anyway, any information you're willing to share about your experience with this setup is greatly appreciated. Thanks, man!

 

I'll be interested to hear his results too, but for #3 I can say that's not the point or the result of Sumo Springs. The leaf springs will be what they are, as stiff or soft as they are. The Sumo Springs would stop them from compressing fully under very heavy loads. If anything, once you have enough weight in the bed that you're contacting the Sumo Springs, the ride will be far more harsh.

 

I don't know if the Sumos are as tall as the Timbrens, and the harshness might vary between the different compounds, but my Timbrens are taller than OEM and have a progressive spring to them. The Timbrens definitely engage sooner than OEM and soften up bumps for me.

 

Curious, how tall overall are the Timbrens you're running. Just wanting to see how they compare to the Hilux OEM bumps.

 

I wonder how those would compare to these...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2969630221...uid=ujehddtptok&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2260836633...uid=ujehddtptok&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2969630221
5" - The SSR-610-47has a 1,500 lb capacity when compressed at 50%

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2260836633
5.25" - 6000lbs max load

Those two tidbits were about all i could find on those two, but the overall height is basically the same. The Hilux bump stop is right at 4" tall, i just measured mine and they are 3 7/8" but they've been bounced on a fair bit so i guess its somewhere between there and 4" new.

 

Interesting. I only have experience with Sumo Springs on somewhat worn leaf springs. Seems like once the back end is loaded enough to engage them, the ride quickly starts getting more harsh than it would with just HD leaf springs.

I would just assume that the leaf springs have a certain amount of compression and spring available. The Sumo Springs or Timbrens limit how far you can compress the leaf springs. So instead of continuing to compress the leaf spring, you're compressing a giant chunk of rubber, and you'll "bottom out" long before you've fully compressed the leaf spring.

So while I'd expect Timbren and Sumo Springs to improve ride quality by limiting side-to-side sway, avoiding the jarring thud of hitting the stock bumpstops and generally firming up the loaded ride, it's surprising to hear that by limiting how much the leaf spring can compress/flatten, you actually soften the ride. I visualize these type products as basically giant, oversize bumpstops (granted with a little more squish).

But I obviously defer to direct experience and the knowledge or people who know far more than me.

 

I would assume the rubber spring dampeners are simply a way to keep the rear springs from going inverted when you put weight in the rear. The spring and OEM bump stop are designed for ride compliance and weight capacity. The springs are typically soft enough they provide a decent ride, the bump stops are there in case you hit a big bump, or are heavy loaded. These taller aftermarket rubber spring assemblies are all taller than the OEM bump stop by about 2" or more. I think the whole objective with them is to keep you from allowing the springs to be compressed as much, keep the rear from squatting when you put heavy loads in the back or tow to keep your headlights low and weight on the front end for braking, and stop sway if you had a high load like a camper/topper ect.
These taller bump stops will no doubt be stiff and you likely ride on them constant when loaded since they are so much higher than the OEM bump stops. This is likely on purpose so that when loaded, you ride on the rubber bumper rather than be able to have any sway and compression in the springs. You'll have some droop travel if you hit a bump or pot hole, but wont have any uptravel for bump absorption. The only bump absorption you'll have is whatever the rubber bumper will give you. This would be where you find out how soft your new taller rubber bump stop is. Me personally, i would prefer a good heavy spring pack with load capacity rather than riding on a big rubber bump stop constant. I can only assume the ride is less than stellar if you have the rear loaded and are bottomed out on the rubber bumper. But then again if you are loaded heavy enough to bottom them out, its probably going to help you keep the vehicle under control and headlights pointed at the road which i suspect is the whole purpose regardless of ride quality.

 

Those are my thoughts. But it sounds like people have different experiences.

Personally I'll be carrying enough weight that I think even with HD leaf springs, I'll need extra support. That's why I'm leaning toward airbags. The idea is kind of the same, except that airbags are adjustable. I'd guess that Timbren, Sumo Springs and airbags are all the same in that when they're just slightly engaged, they have a lot of spring. But the more they're compressed, the harsher the ride.

This is all in my head and I don't know for sure if it relates to reality, but my experience with blue Sumo Springs and stock, 20 year old leaf springs (but brand new Bilstein 4600s) with an 800lb slide-in camper was that at first, sure the ride was a bit more rough, but not bad at all. But somewhere along the line, probably after a couple weeks under all the weight, and three separate hunting trips down a rough dirt road, my suspension gave up, and was riding very heavily on the Sumo Springs. At that point, all I could think of was getting that damn camper off my truck because the ride sucked.

 

The blue Sumo Springs say they support 1,000lbs at 50% compression, and that they shouldn't be compressed past 70%. But it wouldn't surprise me if that was a high estimate, and that I pretty much maxed them out with 800lbs in the back, so there was really no spring left in them. They worked great for me with just my trailer hooked up. Maybe 4-500lbs in the back total with tongue weight. Not so good with the slide-in camper.

I'd definitely believe that Timbrens or Sumo Springs with 500lbs or less on them do still provide a nice ride.

 

Thanks for jumping in on this! Definitely helpful. It sounds like the Sumo Springs or Timbrens would work for my application. I only have one OEM bump stop right now, so I'll make a decision soon and comeback and update. I'm really just looking for something to soften or dampen the blow from all the potholes here in Denver.

What leaf springs are you looking at? Bob from ATS said the HDs add a combined payload of 900lbs. I told ATS about this forum and they applied a 5% discount to the order.

1. update* Just watched this video. The active off-road bump stops help when bottoming out and assist in the dampening process. The Timbren SES bump stops are designed to assist with heavy loads.

 

Oh that's good to know. On both the discount, and the 900lbs. I thought the website said 500lbs. I'm still thinking I'll need airbags...but we'll see. I'm going to get ATS leaf springs. I had been going back & forth between regular and HD, and until I actually make the purchase, I'm not 100% sure, but l'm definitely leaning way more toward HD. It's just that I don't prefer the lift. I'll take it, but I'd prefer stock height.

I've already got OME 2883s ready to install. I know I'll still have a lot of rake if I go HD leaf springs, with just the 2883s, but I'm kinda hoping with all the weight I haul, the leaf spring lift will settle more for me than most people here who are maybe hauling no more than 500lbs.

Definitely give us an update! I plan to do the same, either in this thread or the 'what did you do to your first gen' or the suspension thread or...somewhere. I'll definitely get before & after measurements, too. Problem is that there's no level ground in my parking area, so I have to remember to measure sometime when I'm out & about and on flat ground.

 

I'm fairly certain that you don't want to be riding on your bump stops. These so-called "assist spring" bump stops are probably just using some clever marketing. They have certainly priced Sumosprings and Timbren as an active part of your suspension rather than just a *stop*. You could use limiting straps rather than bump stops in some builds. I've had air springs fail and riding on bump stops is can be done extremely short term to not damage the rest of your suspension but this is a brutal ride.

 

Yeah, so far their customer service has been extremely helpful. I went back and forth too, but decided the slight lift would be nice since it won't require a diff drop or anything extra. He did tell me their "normal" leaf springs are a solid upgrade from OEM leaf springs. I guess their HD springs tend to settle too and I just didn't want to risk the truck squatting again with the added weight when I use it for hauling weight on side gigs. I would have saved a lot of money going with 4600s all around with new coil springs and "normal" leaf springs in rear.

Even though I'm way under qualified to make such claims...I imagine the added weight you have in the back with the HD springs would bring you level. When I took just the drawers out of my truck on current and very tired leaf springs the truck went up an 1-1/4".

I also ended up buying the active off-road bump stops. I got them on

$270 Timbren ABSOSR Active Offroad Bumpstop

amazon from Timbrens listed at $269 with an additional 8% off. Whereas on Timbrens official site they were $316.

 

Great.

Based on threads I found on Tacoma forums, I don't trust that their normal leaf springs are an upgrade. I saw posts from people who bought them because, like me, they didn't want a lift, and they were squatting again within a year, with just the weight of a fiberglass topper. Maybe ATS has changed something since then, and maybe Tacoma springs are significantly different from ours. Tacomas pretty regularly have squat, but I rarely see Tundras with squat.

Anyway, that's all good to know.

I know a guy who admittedly has a Dodge pickup (1500), but Timbrens were all he added to his rear suspension for his slide-in camper and he's been happy with them. Knowing what I know now...I would have done things differently from the start. When I bought my truck in April of last year and started doing maintenance, I had no idea I'd have a slide-in camper so soon. Someday, sure, but not within less than a year of getting the truck. Back then I just had my pull behind camper. So I left the original leaf springs, put on new 4600s and Sumo Springs and called it good. And it was good, for just the camper trailer, topper and gear.

Had I known I'd have a slide-in so soon, I would have skipped the Sumo Springs and put on new leaf springs, and probably airbags. Oh well. Good thing money grows on trees...

 

This is 1st gen specific content, why in the hell did a moderator move this out of the 1st gen forums?

I feel like this happens waaaay more than it should. This post got moved ... two years after it was originally posted?!

Love y'all, but c'mon eh? Can we get it moved back into 1st gen forum?

 

Ahhhh I tend to steer away from any forum unrelated to 1st gen tundras. As someone who is just beginning to learn about suspension and mechanical work, it is already confusing enough as it is. All that you mentioned about their normal springs could very well be true because everyone I talked to at ATS highly encouraged the HDs for my setup, the recommendations all felt genuine and honest. For the price of the entire kit, it seems like they are high quality springs, without a massive jump in pricing to the other higher end springs.

I read in a post somewhere on here someone mentioning the idea to reuse a leaf from the old pack. If the ATS HDs don't end up cutting it for your payload that might be a solution? Despite all the trouble you've gone through, I bet having a slide-in is a real treat in the backcountry.

My springs did come a little banged up from how Fedex handled them, one of the bushings has a chunk out of it. They don't come in a box. I talked to someone at ATS and they said the missing chunk won't compromise the springs at all. Mind taking a look?

 

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't worry about it.

I bought HD leaf springs for my Tacoma from General Spring, and they came the same way. Just wrapped in plastic wrap. I prefer perfectly clean, un-banged products, but I guess with something like leaf springs, they'll take way, way more abuse once you install them, so it shouldn't matter.

Adding another leaf just increases lift, unfortunately, and I don't really want to open up the leaf pack. But yeah, a lot of people do custom leaf packs, and I know in the more hardcore offroad crowd, at least with Tacomas and pre-Tacoma pickups, grabbing Chevy leaf packs and making modifications was really popular. All sorts of options, and just adding leaf to your current leaf pack is the cheapest option, especially when the springs are just a little tired and lost some of the arc, but aren't completely worn.

Having had the HD leaf springs on my Tacoma, I have a good idea of what to expect. I think in the end, many (maybe most?) people who do heavy hauling end up with airbags, even people with true full-size domestic trucks. Once you're getting near 1,000lbs in the back, it makes sense almost no matter how stiff your suspension.

 

I almost threw a new set of HD springs on the credit card just now...till I saw the shipping cost. Going to need to save more money first

 

What was the cost? I bought some Dobinson leaf springs last fall and it was $155 to ship them from Florida to a local shop near me in PA.

 

That's about right. UPS was around $165, FedEx $120. I could have put the $595 of the leaf springs themselves on a card, but not more. It's a good thing. This way I'll actually just save up for them instead of charging them. I'm a little worried about steel prices going up so I'm tempted to buy them before I've saved fully. Who knows. Maybe after my next credit card payment I'll just max it out again and charge them. ~$700 debt doesn't hurt too bad.

 

Just wanting to provide an update. I received all the parts and have just been waiting for some warmer weather over this past weekend. When I removed the spare tire I noticed a few rusty spots, nothing dramatic or too concerning. I started prepping the rusty parts of the frame with a wire brush and it looks like a previous owner painted over the rust. There's no holes or weak spots, it appears to be all surface rust, so I'll be tackling that alongside the install on everything.

 

Nice looking pile. I've got a similar one!

Cool Coilovers? I haven't heard of them.

I'll have all the parts to do my suspension by the end of the week. I kept adding more...

 

They're the old man emu coilovers! I think Cool Coilovers is the company that installed the coils?

 

Ah, ok, nice. Is the front shock Bilstein too? Or just the rears?

I went ATS HD, OME 2883s, keeping my 4600s on the front but going 5100s in the back. Airbags. Lowering shackles.

 

Yeah! Front 5100's w/ OME 2884 along with extended sway bar links and 5100's on rear with ATS HD leaf springs and the Active off-road bump stops. Are you planning on doing yours anytime soon?

 

Nice. Going to be a very different truck.

Yes, I hope so. I might do the fronts this weekend. I've done leaf springs before by myself so I know I can, but I'd rather have help. A friend might be able to help me next weekend so I'm holding off till then.

 

You get all those parts on yet??

I got my fronts done last weekend. My truck is actually perfectly level right now. Which means once I've got the new leaf springs on, which I plan to do this weekend, I'll have quite a bit of rake. We'll see.

 

Hey @Justyman ! Much like you I decided to do 5100’s all around, $75 - 5.25”rubber bumps and ATS HD springs. How’s the ride?

The extended sway bar rods/links you’re talking about are for the front correct? Didn’t think it would be necessary for the 5100’s 1.5” medium lift setting. Also, I hope I can keep my rear sway with the 1.5” leaf spring lift. Can’t find extended end rods for the rear sway to save my life.