Increase towing capacity by upgrading rear suspension and brakes?

Yes it’s a federal requirement for manufacturers to include the sticker. That does not make it a law that criminalizes people who exceed the number. Those are two different things.

This Lovells kit allows your 200 series to be certified for an extra ton of weight, and it includes only springs and armor. No frame stretching or altering of any kind.

I don’t know the law in Canada. Here in the US, I don’t even know what constitutes an “illegally modded” vehicle. It sounds like you’re saying the payload sticker is absolute law, so is putting different tires on your truck other than the ones specified on that sticker also illegal?

Yes I agree but with a caveat. My rule of thumb is to not exceed the axle ratings on my truck. When loaded up for camping with no trailer, I’m @ 7400 lb. That means that as my gas tank empties itself, I go down back within my GVWR rating of 7200 lb. I drove TN to CO like this and drove shelf roads around SW CO like this. Unsafe? Not any more so at 7400 lb than at 7200 lb.

You have a fellow Canadian who suggests the same rule of thumb as I use when pulling trailers: stay within axle ratings.

Here’s an article where Andy Thomson argues that a half ton truck can be a better tow vehicle than a 3/4 ton due to a lower center of gravity and other factors. It’s ok to be a bit over GVWR when the trailer weight is within what the manufacturer says the truck can handle and neither axle is overloaded.

 

Criminalize is likely not the correct term as it implies the Criminal Code. We’re talking about traffic laws/statues, regulations. Of course, commercial vehicles are inspected for weight and fines are issued for them being overloaded.
I don’t see anything in that Lowell kit that implies you can simply increase the GVM by a tonne in Australia just by adding shocks. Google says GVM is 3,500 kgs. Going to 4,000 kgs is a 500 kg increase, or 1,100 lbs. Regardless, I hope you would agree if that is really the case it is an absurd idea. Have a read…

https://www.drive.com.au/news/polic...crackdown-reveals-90-per-cent-are-overweight/


https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-03/vsi-05.pdf


When I mention illegally modded vehicle as it pertains to Quebec traffic/road codes, I’m speaking of oversize tires, and lift kits. We are restricted by an increase of only 2” in tire diameter over stk IIRC, and similarly for a lift.
You imply by being only 200 lbs over is not unsafe. Someone else will say the same about 400 lbs, and someone else will say 500 lbs, and so on. It’s like telling an officer I’m only a little over the limit (alcohol).

That article is ridiculous. Anyone knows the rating of the two axles is always greater than the GVWR. Again, this is for safety reasons, and is why the GVWR is always less.

All I can say is if some a$$hat was over their GVWR, caused an accident that killed or injured anyone in my family, I would have my lawyer sue them for every penny for being over their GVWR. I’m sure you would do the same thing.

 

Did you even read it? The kit includes federal and state compliance plates. Lol, what more do you need? It also increases your gross combined mass (GCWR) when you upgrade brakes. If you select the “upgrade” button on that page, it takes you to a list where you mention to them what mods you’ve added to your vehicle and what, if anything, you plan on towing. It also says it’s for vehicles to be registered in Victoria.

It’s ridiculous I guess if you think that exceeding GVWR by a couple hundred pounds takes one’s truck from safe to imminently dangerous. You can’t exceed GVWR by very much and stay within your axle ratings. If neither axle is overloaded, and you’re pulling a trailer within your truck’s tow rating (which directly means that it is within your truck’s ability to stop it, too), I don’t see the problem.

But if said a$$hat caused an accident, killing someone in your family, but was NOT over GVWR, you would simply shake his hand and say, “ah well, this really sucks, but you were within all your numbers.” ??? Doubtful…

And what are you going to do, drag his wreck to the scales to find his exact tongue weight, assuming that you can even know how full all his water tanks were at the time, in order to prosecute him? Ok…

This whole scenario is funny to me because many of the same people who attempt to shame and/or police others on the internet regarding tow weights also drive well in excess of the speed limit and don’t see the hypocrisy. The speed limit is set by each state by engineers according to a wealth of data (weather, traffic, road curvature, access points, city limits, etc). Why do we ignore THOSE engineers and say it’s ok to exceed the speed limit by a few mph (or more) but get all serious and condescending to people online when they admit that they’re 200 lb over GVWR on occasion?

 

I think some have to tone down the payload paranoia a bit. It’s a bit exhausting. I am very much all about safety but There is a difference between running a bit heavy and straight up being unsafe and a liability to anyone on the road.

Where do you draw the line? Hopefully just common sense and thought prevails. People will always do stupid stuff and take things too far

 

Fun fact for the Canadians out there…

The federal government technically does have a process to increase the payload and GVWR of a vehicle. It’s considered single vehicle NSM certification. Companies like https://vanaxle.com/frame-repair/frame-alterations/gvw-upgrade/amp/ are licensed to perform the alterations and certify with an Engineer.

HOWEVER, no certified shop is willing to perform this on anything other than medium or heavy duty trucks. They won’t touch anything like a Tundra because there is too much liability. I tried with a Taco a few years back and every certified shop I called refused.

 

I may be wrong as a lot of years have passed but my 40ft King of the Road 5th wheel was almost same weight if not the same. That trailer dwarfed my 3500 Chevy DUALLY 454 big block. If I am right about the size of the trailer then it definitely will kill your Tundra.

 

Straight up. Well said.

 

Just wow!
Yes, I read the Lowell’s advert. Still don’t see any “upgrade” button/link. Regardless, as I said, I have no idea how the Aussie’s determine how they can increase the manufactures GVM/GVWR. Again, as I previously outlined in detail all the issues we experienced when MB thought they could just arbitrarily increase their payload by approximately 1,800 lbs. I don’t see how a bunch of government types know more than Toyota engineer’s, but that is their business. MB is a world class organization, and I think you would agree, the engineering behind the G-Wagon is unmatched except maybe by Toyota’s Land Cruiser. So, once again, the MB engineer’s (world class) got it wrong, and the vehicle required very extensive modifications to safely carry all that additional weight.
About the article he’s talking about adding 1,000 lbs over the GVWR. I never implied exceeding the GVWR by a couple hundred pounds was “imminently dangerous”.
I will say I have seen first hand, guys in our Land Cruiser club that have cracks in their C-pillar at the belt line from carrying too much stuff on their roofs like roof top tents. IIRC, the maximum weight Toyota gives for their “roof rack” for the 80 Series is only 200 lbs. Most folks ignore this, and typically end up with over 400 lbs up on the roof. My buddy has a built up FJ Cruiser. Has a RTT, 3” lift, roof rack, aux gas tank, 34” tires, dual batteries, ARB front bumper c/w winch, drawer system, etc. You get the picture. He’s now complaining his vehicle doesn’t stop as well as it used to, and he is wearing out the inner side of his front tires. Shop that installed his lift just replaced his upper control arms as the ball joints were already shot, and told him there was nothing they could do about the tire wear as it was due to the additional weight he was carrying. I told him he should get his vehicle weighed just to see if he is close to his GVWR.
Another first hand example going back to my experience with MB. After we fielded the G-Wagons, we received a request from the Army asking if we would ok them using the G-Wagon as their prime mover for our 105 mm light towed howitzer. They had already completed some preliminary field trials without consulting us (project team). They told us they had exceeded the pintle rating by 150 lbs. Thinking this wasn’t a big deal, we thought MB would approve this request, but surprisingly, they would not approve of the request and stated that they would have to redesign the entire pintle system. Yep, a paltry 150 lbs would require a complete redesign, so we said no to the request.
Let me ask you this. Let’s say you were involved in a serious accident caused by someone who was driving a vehicle in which they exceeded their vehicle’s GVWR, and it being overloaded was the cause of the accident even if it was only by 200 lbs. Would you tell your lawyer, no it’s ok, I’m not going to sue, because I sometimes drive with my truck overloaded by only 200 lbs?

 

I get what you are saying but damn it’s just so heavy, and you make it sound so damn scary, I feel like they are million other things on the road you should worry about first than the guy 200lbs overloaded that’s not even noticeable driving in the right lane. Like everyone else speeding, texting, blah blah the world is a scary place and now you get these maniacs 200lbs over out to kill us all

but I appreciate your concern for safety. My family is out on those roads. I think we can all agree it would be best to stay within all our numbers

 

Just wow, indeed. This company, Lovells, is authorized to market a kit called the GVM 4200KG kit. It certifies a new GVM (that’s gross vehicle mass; we call it gross vehicle weight rating here) of 4200 kg; this is 9259 lb, an upgrade of roughly 1T from the factory GVWR for a 200 series LC of 7300 lb. You get certification plates at the federal (pre-registration) or state (already registered) level with the kit. I’ve highlighted the Upgrade Now button for you. Make sense?

Yep, carrying weight has consequences. No argument there. Suspension, bearings, etc. take a hit. Factory motor mounts don’t last long. Bedsides will become misaligned with a lot of off-road flex, especially carrying weight. Mismatched gaps on either side of the tailgate. Double cab Tundras in particular have pinch weld issues with static loads like bed racks and tents because there is no support under the front 10” or so of bed space.

How do you expect to find out dude is 200 lb over GVWR? Are you going to drag the wreck to the CAT scales and assume that you have the same amount of water in his trailer tanks? Same level of fuel in his gas tank? Refill his coolant, trans fluid, wiper reservoir, and whatever else was damaged and leaked in the collision? Make him and all his family get in the truck while it’s on the scales? Gather up all the wreckage and put it back in the truck or trailer the exact same way to find out what his exact tongue weight was just seconds prior to the collision?

In this fantastically unlikely hypothetical scenario, are you NOT going to sue him if he’s NOT 200 lb over GVWR but still caused an accident and killed someone in your family?

 

If you guys want to talk about overloaded, my wife put all the water for our wedding in her brand new at the time outback without a second thought hahaha. That thing didn’t even look the same vehicle it was so damn squashed. She only went a few blocks though

 

Girls, you’re all pretty.

 

When almost nothing ever goes wrong with your trucks, you're left to argue over hypotheticals and strong internet lore.

 

Toyotas always be doin’ Toyota stuff. It’s not new…

 

To be fair....

https://youtu.be/VnheWXZNOlQ?si=oYQff65I2OGYYcqE

 

I liken the payload nazis to the degens from up north…

 

Care to clarify that remark?

 

This gentleman has it right. I’m often reminded of a great turn of phrase when it comes to engineering things.

Any idiot can build a bridge that stands. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands.

Sure the engineers will generally build in a buffer zone, over and above their ratings, but at the end of the day there’s a LOT of engineering that goes into creating a cost effective product. They don’t want to over-engineer things as it’s bad for profit margins. There’s a reason a Land Cruiser was 90k and it wasn’t just to pad the bottom line.

At the end of the day there’s a lot of parts have to be engineered differently in heavy duty trucks for the purpose of increasing payload and tow capacity. The under side my f450 looks like everything is made from bridge girders. The brakes are enormous and every bit of it is beefy. The axle looks like a tree trunk wheels tacked on the end. The tundra looks like a toy in comparison.

As for the “a few pounds over here and there” argument… quite frankly the line has to be drawn somewhere right? Is a few pounds over irresponsibly unsafe? Probably not, but I didn’t engineer the thing. I would bet 15% over would start degrading service life of various components. Just look at the double cab pinch welds.

Anyway, arguing on the internet is pointless because nobody is going to change their mind. But I do think some of the facts bear repeating as maybe it helps people make more informed decisions from time to time and I think there’s value in that.

 

Agreed.

Agreed, and I draw the line at axle ratings.

The pinch welds problem on double cabs happens from people carrying only 300 lb on a bed rack (nowhere near their GVWR). It’s a bad design that needs reinforcement, not an argument against overloading.

If you have a family and use your Tundra for adventure trips or work, you’re going to be at or a bit over your ratings. No way around it. Thankfully, we have LOADS of data (pun intended) that shows the trucks are up to the task. Toyota themselves advertised the early 2nd gen as being able to be severely overloaded on a Texas ranch for 100k miles and holding up better than domestic 3/4 ton trucks. Vic Sheppard often carried loads up to 2700 lb in the bed of his DC rated for 1300 lb for his job. Australia will legit certify a 200 series (yes it has boxed frame, but it has identical payload and GVWR as a 2nd gen Tundra) for an extra ton of GVWR with an HD springs kit. And the state of Utah says you’re fine being over GVWR but not over axle/tire/wheel ratings.

So, I don’t think it’s unsafe or even controversial at all to suggest that it’s not unsafe to be a couple hundred lbs over GVWR but within axle ratings when on a camping trip.

I would have to be severely overloaded to even get near my tire ratings. I would need FAR more capacity to get close. That’s an HD truck problem.

I’m not talking about hauling hay bales with a gooseneck or pulling a 9k 5er with 1700 lb pin weight (which we see people do all the time in their Tundras on the various FB groups). Those are HD truck activities and would overload one or both axles and are actually illegal (at least in the state of Utah).

 

No where did I imply being 200 lbs over your GVWR will be an imminent safety issue. The point I was trying to make (also as a mech Eng), is that there are in fact actual design considerations that go into these numbers. They are for the most part not dreamt up (recall the rated towing fiasco during the pickup wars). I’ve given several actual real world first hand examples of what can happen when one exceeds weight carrying limits.
I’ll give you another. Yes, I’m guilty of overloading my cheapa$$ riveted together utility trailer. I used it many years to haul gravel to fix my steep driveway after being washed out each year from the rain. Round trip is only about 40 kms. The first time, the guy with the skid steer wanted to know what the weight rating was. He was of course suspicious of it being capable of carrying the weight of one cubic yard, roughly one ton. I had no idea, but we found the sticker, and IIRC it was around 1,200 lbs. At first he didn’t want to put the full load in, but I convinced him. Did this several more times over the years, then one day one of my tires blew on the highway doing about 80 kms. Luckily, no drama. Looked at the load rating, and they were just under 1,000 lbs. So, between the trailer (500 lbs), and the gravel, total weight is about 2,500 lbs. Just 500 - 600 lbs over the stated max load for both tires (250 - 300 lbs/ tire). No problem, I get better tires rated for more weight. Continue to do same over the next year or two. Then one day something isn’t quite right with the trailer. Look underneath and see some cracks in the main frame rails. I’m like, yep. Trailer was not designed to carry all that gravel. Fixed it all up, but no longer use it to carry a full load anymore. I figure I never used it more than 15 - 20 times to haul gravel. So, say 600 - 800 kms in total and frame was finished.

 

No one disagrees with this. Nowhere have I suggested these numbers are dreamt up or pulled out of thin air.

Respectfully, none of your examples have anything to do with how I use my truck or even with our trucks at all. MB is a different company building a completely different vehicle with a different target service life and use case. And regarding your little trailer, you overloaded both the axle and the tires—something literally no one is advocating for here.

We’ve seen frames cracked and axle bearings shot on Tundras on this forum. One guy pulled a large trailer with multiple large hay bales with another bale in the bed. Axle bearings shot after years of abuse. Another guy had a 4 wheel campers flatbed truck camper conversion. He cracked the frame off roading. Insurance fixed it. All trucks were loaded well in excess of axle ratings. Again, no one is advocating for that.

 

I get what you are saying. The trailer story may have been a poor example. That cheap little trailer was very much overloaded in every way. You could liken that though to some loads guys try and pull with our trucks that are obviously insane like the OP

 

The tundra has absolutely nothing on an actual piece of equipment like a 450 or 550. They don’t even belong in the same sentence together. You’re right it looks like a toy. Or a one ton, hell even a 3/4 ton undersides.
Do I think it can take lots of abuse and punch above its weight a bit? Hell yes. And that’s exactly what I think it is, a stout well built half ton that take lots of abuse.

 

Haha! I agree, but it was all I had. I knew I was well beyond it’s capabilities, took my chances, and suffered the consequences. I think this is also the point of the thread, and wanted to share that we’ve all probably been there done that.