JBL Audio or is it?

exactly. Noticeable difference. KEY200 and has toggle ON/OFF button (to enable or disable DSP), flip back and forth following auto-programming and literally hear the difference with and without DSP. Likewise recommend DSP.

(edit for clarity)

 

Could someone explain the difference in the Kicker KEY200 and the Beat-Sonic PA2T3K as well as benefits of one over the other?

Looks like a lot of knowledge in this thread!

 

I used the Steve Meade Distortion Detector on the stock headunit and it measured a clean signal all the way up to the 60 volume level. I think the max is 63 if I remember. With the new system installed 50 is too loud for me.

You're absolutely correct on using the high level inputs from the headunit into an amplifier. I went that route initially and then discovered there was a noise floor (hiss/static instead of silence on audio track) issue. I installed the AudioControl LCI5 Pro converter box and the noise issue was eliminated.

Using the distortion detector and monitoring test tones at 40hz, 100hz, 1000hz, 5000hz, 10000hz, and I have the system set with no clipping measured from each point at the headunit output/LCI input, and amplifier outputs. Of note, my amplifier gains are barely cracked above zero to keep them out of clipping, which is a credit to the clean powerful signal the LCI sends out.

I also found thru testing with the 40hz tone that the front headunit outputs have a stronger bass signal than the rear speakers. So, I use the front channels to to feed the subwoofer channel in the LCI.

 

Did you use a T harness to integrate into the factory wiring? Not really wanting to cut my wires behind the dash. I pulled most of my stuff from my 21 Tacoma including the T harness. I was using the JL Audio speaker wire to RCA connector in my JL Audio amps. I had hiss but it didn't really bother me. I did have to increase the gain on the rear speakers because the volume mismatched with the fronts. That's an issue I noticed on a lot of the 3rd gen Tacoma forums.

 

Yes. I used the harness from Tac0Tunes to feed the signal to the LCI5 Pro. Usually the rear speakers are a lower volume on purpose to keep the musical staging up in front of the driver. You don't go to a concert and turn your back on the stage do you?

 

I traded my 21 Tacoma and I was initially pretty excited about the larger 14" screen. The larger screen is definitely a plus but I miss the split screen view from the 21 Taco. It was nice to have the map, music information, and weather all on a split screen. Now you have to fumble to switch between screens to get music info and see the map.

 

When you are at a concert you are still surrounded by speakers. I'm not building my system to compete in IASCA or USAC, been there and done that years ago. It's just a matter of personal preference now.

 

If you swipe the furthest screen on left (you would swipe right), it gives a 3 way split screen with maps, music, and destinations.

 

I think hes referring to the native toyota system, not CarPlay.

I only use CarPlay 100% , so I don't really care what the toyota system does or doesnt do

 

That's only for Apple car play

 

yes, that's Apple car play and I'm referring to the native system. I listen to Satellite radio most of the time. The nice thing about my old Tacoma was regardless of the music source it was always displayed on a split screen with the map. You could toggle between full map view or split screen both on the native and car play

 

The Harman Kardon premium system in my wife's A4 and A6 killed it, and she's hard to please when it comes to audio ...

 

Didn't see a response on this ... Anyone with experience/knowledge on the differences ? I'm trying to choose between the two myself.

 

They're both about the same in terms of power, although the Beat Sonic states "Using new aftermarket speakers not recommended". In my experience, you are going to get a better product with the Kicker. The Kicker comes with a microphone to help with DSP. There's only so much you can do with the factory speakers. I replaced all of mine this weekend and the 6x9's in the doors have magnets the size of most aftermarket 3 1/4 and 4 inch speakers. I used an Alpine PXE-C60-60 into a JL Audio RD 400/4. I replaced the speakers with JBL Stadium Club series. In the front I bought the JBL A pillar with the tweeter housing and did a 3 way setup by adding the 2 1/2 inch Stadium Club 22S to the dash.

 

Thanks for the response ... So it seems you stayed with the JBL head-end and bypassed the stock amp with an Alpine/JL combo ... Correct ? Based on what I understand, the dash fronts are powered by the head-end, not the stock under-seat amp. Did you wire those in or leave them out ? What I like about the Beat-Sonic (as a first step) is that it's strictly pnp, while the Kicker unit seems to be more involved (e.g. doesn't come with a harness).

 

I had the premium non JBL 9 speaker system. Mine wasn't amplified from the factory. Toyota has some sort of weird attenuation or filter on the rear outputs. The rear speakers were never as loud as the front ones, this was the same in my 21 Tacoma, the line out voltage is not the same as the front. So back to your question, the main thing you need to decide is what you would like to get out of your sound system. How much better do you want it to be? Regardless of whether you have the JBL or non JBL system you have plenty of options. The thing you should answer first is whether or not you are ever going to replace the stock speakers. If you don't plan on replacing them then the Beat-Sonic is probably going to be your better option. The only advantage of the Beat Sonic other than PNP is that it has better internal electronic components and slightly higher power over the OEM setup. You would essentially be slightly overpowering the factory speakers with a cleaner signal and power. If you want a much better sound, it will take a little more work, but will be totally worth it and you won't be spending your money on something that won't be useful later on down the line then upgrade the speakers and get a more powerful amplifier. I bought the OEM A pillar trim panels for the JBL system 622100C080B2, 622200C080B2 so I could add an aftermarket tweeter and have a 3 way speaker set up. If you want to use the Kicker or another similar setup, you can buy a T-harness so you don't have to hack up the factory wires. You can also use a 9 conductor wire (9 wires encased in a single jacket) to make it easy to run and install to the T harness. As for your question on the dash speakers, they are tied in with the door speakers. If you remove the dash speakers you will see a connector with 4 wires. The dash speaker (and a pillar tweeter if JBL equipped) will have a capacitor soldered in them to bock low frequencies but they all receive a signal from either the amplifier (JBL equipped) or head unit (non JBL equipped). So if you have a JBL system, they will be powered by the OEM JBL amp, if not they are powered by the head unit just like the other speakers. Like I said, you have plenty of options, depending on your current OEM set up. If you have an OEM JBL setup, you will need to add a signal processing unit to clean up and filter the signals. If not, you can use something as simple as a line level converter (some aftermarket amps also have this built in). These are called high level inputs. The converter converts to high level to low level signals (low level signals are what are used with RCA cables). I'm more of an audiophile and wanted the ability to make infinite adjustments to tune my system to my listening tastes, that is why I went with the Alpine processor. It takes the signals from the OEM and cleans them up and digitally restores them. It also gives you the ability to crossover (filter) the signals going to your speakers before they are amplified. Basically a crossover, attenuates a frequency in decibels. For example, your dash speaker is a 3 inch speaker. You don't want it playing the same frequencies as your subwoofer. The crossover attenuates those signals by a certain decibel amount. 6, 12, 18, 24, etc. So if you use a high pass crossover at 800 hertz (HZ) on your 3 inch dash speaker that's rated for -18 decibels (-18 db), then all the frequencies below 800 hz will be attenuated by 18 db. It also has a built in equalizer, this allows you to boost or lower certain frequencies throughout your speakers. On your head unit, you have 3 options for sound, bass, mid, high, typically 80hz, 500 hz, and 1.1 khz repectively. These are only one preset frequency. An equalizer gives you the full range of frequencies. This is helpful because you have options to increase or decrease more precise frequencies. This is better for many reasons, especially for midbass and high end frequencies. You can make drums sound more realistic and if your tweeters or high range speakers are too harsh you can tune them down. Finally, the Alpine also has time alignment. This process can delay the signals based on timing. With time alignment, it allows you to recreate the sound stage as it was recorded by delaying the signals so you hear them at a given point in time. For example, a song may be recorded with the singer at the center of the stage while the guitarist is left of center and the bass guitar is right of center. In a typical stereo system, all of the frequencies are delivered at the same time. That's why if you are sitting in the drivers seat, you will hear everything primarily from the front driver side speakers. Midrange and high frequencies are directional, which means the placement of those speakers are more critical. Bass is non directional, which is why the placement of subwoofers is not as important as mids or highs. Time alignment allows you to delay certain frequencies to trick your ears (in essence) to move the sounds to the position in which they were recorded in. So by using time alignment, you could adjust the frequencies of the singers voice to "sound" as if they are coming from the center of your dashboard and the guitarist is on the left side of the dash, while the bass guitarist is over on the right side of the dash.
Hopefully this gives you a better understanding of how your stereo works and what level of performance you want to take it to. If you have other questions or want some advice on picking out stuff don't hesitate to ask.

 

I love the sound that the system in my 1794 provides. Full dynamic range no rattles , buzzes and plenty of punch. Sound is a highly subjective thing. I have heard $5000 speakers that could not touch the sound a pair of JBL L-19s that cost $400. An effective speaker basket for a sub needs as little flex as possible. Who makes the basket is of no consequence if it matches the spec of the cone design.

 

Whoa ... Permit me some time to digest this but, thank-you for the highly detailed response !

 

MP: What you would like to get out of your sound system. How much better do you want it to be?
A: I want clean, clear sound with proper separation when listening to R&R via either SiriusXM (primarily) or streamed from my iPhone, sometimes at higher volumes. I want better quality than OEM but not willing to spend more than, say, $1500, and I'm willing to take a stepped approach.
MP: The thing you should answer first is whether or not you are going to replace the stock speakers.
A: I may ... I don't want to rule that out if adding a processor doesn't provide the improvements as noted above.
MP: I bought the OEM A pillar trim panels for the JBL system 622100C080B2, 622200C080B2 so I could add an aftermarket tweeter and have a 3 way speaker set up.
A: I have the JBL system, so whether I stick with the OEM speakers or replace them at some point, I'm all set where that's concerned.
MP: If you want to use the Kicker or another similar setup, you can buy a T-harness so you don't have to hack up the factory wires.
A: I'm leaning towards the Beat-Sonic solution but could be convinced that the Kicker or JL Audio units are a better solution ...
MP: As for your question on the dash speakers, they are tied in with the door speakers. If you remove the dash speakers you will see a connector with 4 wires. The dash speaker (and a pillar tweeter if JBL equipped) will have a capacitor soldered in them to bock low frequencies but they all receive a signal from either the amplifier (JBL equipped) or head unit (non JBL equipped). So if you have a JBL system, they will be powered by the OEM JBL amp, if not they are powered by the head unit just like the other speakers.
A: I have the JBL system.
MP: If you have an OEM JBL setup, you will need to add a signal processing unit to clean up and filter the signals.
A: Right, so Beat-Sonic, Kicker, or JL Audio ... That seems to be the best first step.
Thanks, again ...

 

I just ordered the Beat Sonic and I think that will be good enough for me. Appreciate the discussion with this thread. I don’t want to do a full build. I did that to my Tacoma and it sounds GREAT, but too much work!!!

 

Looking forward to your feedback on improvements ... In the meantime, what swayed you to Beat-Sonic vs. either the Kicker or JL Audio solutions ?

 

Keep in mind fellas , no matter what system you have , stock or aftermarket, source matters

XM is shit, they compress the hell out of it, it’s never going to sound good especially at higher volumes, bit rate is awful

apple lossless and Spotify premium are much better as is tidal as far as streaming

 

Thanks, appreciate the additional input ... That notwithstanding, and however much it affects the decisions to be made, I'm going to remain with, and acccept the limitations of, XM and iPhone for sources.

 

understood, just trying to keep expectations as all a better system does is play the source material closer to the way it was actually recorded, and then delivered

but I certainly understand wanting certain content

 

I’m 54 now. I’ve probably already lost plenty of hearing at live concerts over the years. Some of the AC/DC concerts were pretty brutal.

The Tacoma needed a head unit, and so the Pioneer head unit I got cleaned up the signal, among other things. I don’t need a new head unit with the Tundra. I don’t have JBL with the sub and I’m not looking for the power that amps like the kicker have, that is overkill for me.

I just need a clean signal from the factory head unit.

I don’t need a lot of power, especially if the signal is clean. The beat-sonic is enough power but will not be too much. My Tacoma is the concert venue.

My Tacoma experience is that watts are addicting kind of. Once I had speakers that could handle it and a good clean amp, then I found myself wanting to turn up the volume, and then it sounds so amazing, just a little more, and maybe a bit more. I just don’t need that power experience. The clean signal with a little amp added in will be fine for me.

I don’t want to add a lot of weight with the Tundra. I am towing and will be maxing out payload.

Once you’ve had a car with all of the walls matted, it’s hard to justify a larger amp and new speakers without also doing the matting. A good matting job does a lot if it’s what you want.

 

Got it ... Thanks, that's useful additional input.

 

If you want to take the best logical approach, the first thing I would do is replace the speakers and put in an aftermarket amplifier. Is your truck a Hybrid or non Hybrid? Based on your budget, the Kicker amp is going to get you the most bang for your buck. It is a Class D which makes good power in a small footprint but not as clean as a Class A or A/B amplifier. It will do fine for what you are looking for. You need to match the speakers to the amplifier. A true 3 way setup like I am using is generally going to require more power than what the Kicker amp provides. In a 3 way setup, the larger speaker is just playing midbass frequencies, while middle speaker is bandpassed to play midrange to the low end of the higher frequency spectrum, and the tweeter is just playing the high end frequencies. You can still improvise however. If you shop on Crutchfield look at the
Kenwood Excelon

$229 KFC-XP6902C Car Component System Select Chevrolet/Toyota

KFC-XP6902C, they are a 6x9 2 way component set that will drop right in to your locations with no modification. You can either leave the factory JBL tweeter in the A pillar and wire it in with the Kenwoods or replace it. Most tweeters have a higher sensitivity rating so it doesn't take much power to get them going. There's also a capacitor built in on the OEM one so nothing more needed, just wire it in. You will just need a basic component set for the rears. Something that is rated at 50-75 watts rms and try to get something with a sensitivity rating of 89 db or higher. The higher the sensitivity the better they will play with less power. You don't need to go overboard on the rears since they are there for "filler" sound. Once you have done that you will probably find that you want to replace the subwoofer, but that's another step for a later time and that also depends on whether or not you have a Hybrid or not.

 

While it is subjective, there's a lot of factors that can make an enjoyable difference. There's certain things in recorded music that you may never hear without the right set up. The first and most critical part of speakers is not the price but the placement. Sound is directional and frequencies travel in time, so the placement of speakers is critical. Aside from power the other important thing is an equalizer, to help accentuate or attenuate frequencies. All enclosed spaces have a resonant frequency which will naturally boost those frequencies. With technology there's also time delay processors to help with speaker location to help you audibly perceive that the sound is coming from a certain point. There's a lot more than the cost of the speaker to consider when making a decision on what to use.

 

I slightly disagree with starting at speakers first,

I think if your keeping the stock head unit, you need to do something with the signal first, not just amplify shitty source signal and toyota/jbl tuning.

need to add a DSP or JL Tweak/Fix type deal first, then more power and better speakers

then you have a flat signal to work with to amplify and add your own EQ taste to.

 

The Kicker amplifier that JohnDeere55 is considering has digital sound processing to clean up and process the source. There's no point in just adding a processor to the OEM garbage as you suggest, just be wasted money. The best start is to replace the speakers and amplify them with a signal processor. The Kicker is a decent package that does both processing and amplification to save space.