1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

No, but i would like to meet someone with a 3d printer.

i have pliers and hammers.

 

My steering controls are all disconnected except for cruise control. When I get some time (lol), I may investigate the possibility of wiring one or more of the buttons for a momentary or on/off trigger switch.

 

You'll need a controller of some sort.

The OEM controls are a resistive load, not just a switch. They share the same wire(s).

 

Thank you - my little brain imagined there was some voodoo going on in there.

 

I have 4 of them 20 feet away from my desk at work. Haven't figured out how to get the software installed to use it yet. One has a Mr Robot insignia. Guessing thats some brand name. Probably several hundred grand in equipment.

 

tell someone that works it to make me a 1/10 scale tundra body.

 

https://youtu.be/6snGN7-jCYw

 

We have any HVAC dudes here?

Someone tried to scam me into a new furnace earlier, was really sneaky how he did it. That said, I fixed the issue he created while "troubleshooting" w/me, which led me to fumble through finding the actual cause (no continuity at hot surface ignitor, ignitor cracked). Part overnighted, I'll repair tomorrow.

Anyway, got a couple extra questions (simple) I know any HVAC person could probably answer easy. Related to switches (flame rollout limiter, furnace limiter). It's for a Payne PG8MAA series.

 

You can buy replacement cases on fleaBay.

(non-OEM but they work)

 

What’s the question, I’m not a furnace wiz but I also wouldn’t just sell something to someone that didn’t need it, or create a scare issue

 

Well, this guy, super nice older fellow, went to test the limiter switches since the error code pointed to that as a possible issue. On the 2nd one, he either [accidentally or purposefully] left the power on and arced his pliers against the chassis, which quietly blew the 3A fuse on the mainboard without any indication. He then continued testing limiters as if nothing happened, and deemed them all OK, but the unit wouldn't fire off, which led to his diagnosis:

"Either the board, the gas valve, or (some other part I don't recall) is bad. Each is about $700. We could replace one, but the other may go bad 6-12mos from now, then you're out $1400, and if the last one goes bad, a new furnace is only $2300 ... might as well just be proactive here". I asked if there were any other creative options, we'd budgeted to overhaul our HVAC in the fall. "Nope, if you want heat, it'd be a week to get any of those parts, I'd just replace it, my person will send you a quote".

Went into house. Nest t-stat was showing the unit was 'disabled' or something weird it wasn't saying prior. That's when I went to the furnace and saw the code our unit was flashing switched from 34 to 24, 24 being 'secondary fuse blown'. So I replaced that fuse, and the unit powered up, kicked on, I smelled the 1st burst of gas, no ignition. So I lit the gas it sprayed, POOF, I have heat again. That MF'er! The ignitor never lit up, so I started hunting for the ignitor itself and .... Yup. Visual inspection shows it's toast, clearly fractured, apparently the classic white line of death. $24 part.

 

Oh damn I forgot to ask the question. Payne PG8MAA unit. I found four limiters inside but looking thru the parts list here, it's not clear which is which, there's apparently at least two, possibly three different switches inside?

See this pic. I've labeled the limiters "A", "B" and "C", and C has two matched, one on each side of the burner. A is on the exhaust stack. B is facing the blower motor side, I think, and it's different enough in appearance I think it's HH18HA502.

But I'm just confused about A and C? and...
Is it worth just replacing them all after 20 years, it's cheap enough? and...
Should get reset-able switches, since it seems like there's an option? and ...
Anything else I may be missing b/c I don't do this for a living?

 

Honestly, just replace the igniter, I wouldn’t worry about the safeties unless you know they are open, easy test with a ohm meter. Igniters and ignition modules are the most common since they are always the ones doing the work, and a HSI has a rough life!
It’s also good to clean, some people replace the flame sensing rod. I believe it’s a thermopile so when it gets hot it produces a milivolt signal that is seen by the ignition module.

 

Good point on continuity test, I just didn't know if it was a simple circuit, or how it works. I assumed when they heat beyond their manufactured threshold, it interrupts the circuit, and continuity would then cease.

I'm having the same intermittent error (33) or (34) on my upstairs unit - the ignitor isn't firing up. But on that one, if I cut its main power off, leave off for 30sec, then turn power back on, like 90% of the time, it fires right up. But visual inspection of the HSI in that case, it looks alright. So I'd planned to swap out the limiters based on the error. FTR, here are Payne's definition of those codes, I swear it's 34 but maybe it was 33, I can't remember:

CODE: 33.
RESULT: LIMIT CIRCUIT FAULT - Indicates a limit, or flame rollout is open. Blower will run for 4 minutes or until open switch remakes whichever is longer. If open longer than 3 minutes, code changes to lockout #13. If open less than 3 minutes status code #33 continues to flash until blower shuts of Flame rollout switch requires manual reset. Check for: - Restricted vent - Proper vent sizing - Loose blower wheel - Excessive wind - Dirty filter or restricted duct system. - Defective blower motor or capacitor. - Defective switch or connections. - Inadequate combustion air supply (Flame Roll-out Switch open).

CODE: 34.
RESULT: IGNITION PROVING FAILURE - Control will try three more times before lockout #14 occurs. If flame signal lost during blower on-delay period, blower will come on for the selected blower off-delay. Check for: - Control ground continuity - Flame sensor must not be grounded - Oxide buildup on flame sensor (clean with fine steel wool) - Proper flame sense microamps (.5 microamps D.C. min., 4.0 - 6.0 nominal). - Gas valve defective or gas valve turned off - Manual valve shut-off - Defective Hot Surface Ignitor - Low inlet gas pressure - Inadequate flame carryover or rough ignition - Green/Yellow wire MUST be connected to furnace sheet metal.

 

So that one is probably the flame sensing rod, it’s just a ceramic coated rod with a bend on it and a terminal that faces you as it’s in the unit, I think a screw usually holds it in place, but pull it and use sand paper at the very tip and clean it up so fresh metal is shining, I bet that will cure it.

 

Yup, know what you're talking about. I can give that a go. I wasn't sure how it worked, I assumed it was a thermocouple of some sort to ensure flame was rolling. I didn't think you could sand on those things.

 

It’s similar to a thermocouple. I guess they can go bad over time, so if cleaning it doesn’t work, I’d replace the flame sense rod, it’s in the same extreme use category as the HSI

 

Oh and in other off-topic news, I've had this little Snap-On ratchet, an awesome road score from the RR tracks by my house that have separated many a tool from its owner and landed it in my stash. It's never really worked right, kicking itself out into a neutral position if I'm cranking hard.

I know there's rebuild kits out there and I found the kit for models like mine from Snap-On's documentation. But before dropping the $25 on the kit (RKRA930A for this GM70M), I went ahead and pulled it apart to see what I was up against. While the main gear (with the 1/4" end) definitely has some wear as you see in that last pic below, it turns out the interior was just gummed all to hell and I'm guessing that made the pawl stick or not fully seat.

So I got some PB Blaster, scrubbed the hell out of it, blew it out, then threw some Super Lube in there and ... works like a champ! No more sticking while throwing torque on it. I thought Snap-On was lifetime warranty, I'd kinda hoped they'd just send a kit but whatever.

 

find a snap on guy and they rebuild them for free

 

First attempt at skid plate noise removal involves these isolators. These are the cheaper and fatter ones than I will use if they are promising.

 

How bad could it be to need isolators? Is it warped or something? Personally, I'd just small rubber washers around the existing bolts.

 

I ran some poly washers between the bolts. It was horrible. Sounds like a ball joint with no cup liner. As we speak, I'm looking at some cool bushings that are likely better than this style. They provide buffer for the bolts and between plates. But it's going to be trial and error. I've been running without the middle plate this week and Im not going back to that noise I had.

 

I give my 1/2” ratchet this treatment about every 3 years or so. Seems to get sticky with crud and it starts doing the same thing. Pull the circlip, clean, lube, pop it back together and it’s good as new.

 

Are you calling me a tool, or is this directed at the thousands of dudes running amber and yellow fogs during the day time? I never turn off my OEM fogs, partially because I don't think to do it.

 

Anyone have a factory emblem for a 2000 Tundra grille laying around? The Chromey one.

 

My broken ratchets become finger tools.
Double handy if you need it.

 

I did. I gave it away with the grille. Sorry.

I have a super big one off my friends 2016 though. Bigger is better right?

 

Not at all. And I would like to condemn the idiot with my name that posted after his bedtime.

 

While we're discussing ratchets I've had one of these for 20? years and liked it so much I bought a spare.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-3-8-in-Drive-Rotator-Ratchet-89-962/203740742

It's really nice in tight spaces where you don't have much room to swing the handle.

 

My rotator ratchet came from an estate sale.