YES! Another Diesel Thread

https://www.malaymail.com/s/1637234/toyota-ends-production-of-diesel-rav4

The end of the diesel RAV4 is no surprise as only last year Toyota's executive vice-president, Didier Leroy, claimed the company's success with petrol and hybrid powerplants meant diesel was no longer relevant. Leroy said: “My personal opinion — and this is my personal opinion, not a company one — is no, we'll not launch another diesel car.”

Notice he said "cars", not "trucks" . . .

 

As someone who used to use a diesel work truck, loaded to max payload, good riddance. The emissions crap that has to go on them kills their fuel efficiency and reliability - the 2 things diesel had going for them, and diesel prices are now more than gas. Hybrids in pickups are the future, GM only has it in California last I knew. And Toyota has the best hybrid tech and are constantly on the cutting edge, lead by their endurance race cars in Europe for performance, so I can easily see them bolting an electric unit onto a 4.6 type engine to get 400-450 HP and Ft-lbs combined and 20+ mpg. That way there is a 5.7 type option with 400 and 400, then a Hybrid option for 450 450.

 

At least give us the ‘option’ for the 5.7 gas engine for the tundra and do what ever they want with hybrids and electric

 

I agree with this, but could see the engineers in Japan not understanding why it HAS to be an option. While there would be a large market for a hybrid with significant power (450 450) the pure power sound and feel of a large displacement v8 has to be there, fuel mileage be damned. The Japanese influence always worries me when they redo any aspect of the Tundra, as there's aspects of pickups that other cultures just don't understand, and hopefully the American engineers working on the next generation have enough clout to push certain details and options.

 

https://www.tundras.com/threads/an-american-in-japan-why-toyota-trucks.23243/

 

Like the Raptor guys, they were expecting a jump up in engine size to a 7L. Never happened

 

Same old argument. The "emissions crap" doesn't kill their fuel efficiency nor the reliability. You just have to be wary of it and take proper care/maintenance of it - this includes getting it out and putting the engine in an environment such that it will clean the DPF. Or, if it bothers you - just delete the stuff.

I know several people with diesels that have the modern "emissions crap" that have well over 200,000 miles with no engine/emissions related issues. A good friend has a '16 Cummins that averages about 18 mpg on the highway. Yes, you can get higher mpgs by deleting (my brother-in-laws deleted Cummins gets 20 on the highway), but 18 beats the snot out of my average mpg in the Tundra.

 

For the ignorant like me, what do you mean by "delete"?

 

Remove all of the said emissions crap (EGR, DPF, etc). Requires a custom tune (software) and some equipment. Also technically makes your truck illegal and will more than likely void any warranty you may have.

 

Thanks for the 4-1-1

 

My jaded opinion comes from running diesel fleet F350's and working in the oil field around mostly diesel pickups. I would talk to 10-20 guy about their fleet trucks, with a regimented Ford service plan (every 8k km's they get Ford recommended service), and every year 2 or 3 guys would have get the truck to the nearest dealer in Limp mode because the DEF tank froze or particles got into the tank. And when a diesel gets 13 mpg on the highway (my Tundra would get 16 to 18 mpg with the same driving style) there's a problem. And it's not only Ford's I see this in, Ram and GM have them too. The guys who deleted their pickups had next to no issues, but the one's with the emission equipment almost all had issues at some point. Maybe it's the harsh cold weather we work in (freezing tank is the most common I'd say), but pickups with the emission equipment are so unreliable compared to their couterparts that are deleted or are a gas engine. It's so bad that when someone doesn't show up, and we hear the truck is in the shop, that we joke it must be emission related, and more often than not it actually is.

This is just my experience, not saying it's fact, but it's far to common in my experience to be acceptable

 

Lefties and their damn emissions



It’s the emissions that are giving diesels limited time in Europe

 

Fair enough. You can't argue with personal experience.

I have been researching the hell out of this recently because I am considering an HD truck. I would like a diesel again (I had a 2000 F350 with the 7.3), but I know that with it comes some extra maintenance and a special eye on the proper usage. I may opt for a gasser HD, as I don't really need the towing capacity - I just would like more payload. But, there is part of me that really likes diesels. They are just cool. I love the way they sound, the way the pull, and oddly enough the way they smell. Just not sure if it is worth the extra time and money - especially for my situation. First world problems indeed.

 

The newer gassers are getting very competitive. And diesels are getting out of hand, a 2013 PSD with 800 lb ft feels the exact same as a 2017 with 925 lb ft. There's so many factors that make it such a tough choice. If you're going to keep it a long time then resale doesn't matter, so gasser doesn't have the disadvantage, but you could also delete the diesel (even more expense on top of the huge up front cost). The fuel mileage gain isn't as significant as it used to be either.

For equal cost (Ram almost every year gives away free HO Cummins) I'd still go with diesel, but then I'd take the money I'd save and go get it deleted, but I'm in Alberta where there's no legal issues. But with the 10k+ for a diesel engine upgrade from gasser I'd most likely take the savings over the extra torque.

Then there's always the idea to get an older diesel to save more money to throw another wrench into the idea. All I can say is that it's a super tough decision, and I'm glad I won't be looking into getting a new truck for 3+ years at least

 

I love this article.

I grew up with a true love for diesels. But in today's day and age, they are relics on the way out. I think a hybrid gas/electric setup will eventually prevail. Much like we see with freight trains. I wouldn't mind having that kind of power and efficiency, though I would miss the sound of my 5.7. However, sound is not enough for me personally, as I have to pay for the gas and I don't like driving easy.

 

Thanks.

They could always pump sound thru the speakers

 

If I wanted that I would buy a Ford

 

Most definitely would void the warranty. Plus someone else mentioned about good luck finding someone who will work on it. Too risky if you ask me.

 

I do my own work on vehicles 99% of the time. If I get one, I will probably leave it alone for the warranty period and then delete it.....

....well, maybe not. I said that I wouldn't mess with my Tundra before the warranty was out. That only lasted about 30,000 miles.....

 

I hope I am gone before everything goes electric. I may just get a diesel out of spite.

 

This depends where you are, there are Ram dealers in Alberta that will do the deletes and then honour warranties as well. But you have to do all the services with them, not like how I could go to any Toyota dealer now to get warranty work done.

 

I certainly hope there is some validity to the rumors. Toyota has a long history putting reliable diesels into its 4x4's, and it's been a shame that none of them ever made it to North American markets (excepting some early models of the LandCruiser).

Gasoline truck engines have made headway in terms of efficiency, but I've found that most of them (even the new turbo gasolines) really don't maintain that efficiency when put to work.

The emissions have seen a lot of refinement in recent years and aren't nearly as problematic or inefficient as they used to be. Toyota has even been employing some of these technologies (DPF and EGR) in some of their reputable overseas 4x4's (LC 70 series and Hilux), so the company certainly isn't lacking in experience when it comes to dealing with these design issues.

For people who just want to cruise around with empty pickup beds, I suppose the diesel engine is a tough sell. For people who actually have an inclination to work their vehicles with payload and towing, the diesel option makes a bit of sense....hence why you see so many manufacturers offering diesel options in the midsized and 1/2 ton markets. No one has really figured out how to offer practical electric and hybrid solutions for trucks yet. And its not like a diesel hybrid is out of the question as well. Until that gets figured out, the torque delivery offered by diesels makes them very relevant to the truck and 4x4 markets. Buses, big rigs, agricultural and industrial vehicles, military vehicles, ect. still rely predominantly on diesel for that reason.

I've got no idea if Toyota will follow through on this, but if they did, there surely would be a willing consumer base to buy up that vehicle.