Air bags for rear suspension

I love threads like this. What to do------- new leaf springs (what brand, HD?)-----add a leafs------sumos-------air bags-----rear sway bar. I'm stock with 5100s, the one thing I'm really good at is dragging my feet. But I love information. I just want to get some bulk top soil etc. and trips to lowes without hitting the bump stops

 

Here are a couple pictures with the setup I did with the U-bolt flip. The bottom mount is supposed to be reversed so the little piece that hooks around the U-bolt but it didn't work with the u-bolt flip.
Seems to be working so far.

 

To follow up earlier my personal Sprigs Springs journey...

I had bought the SS Blacks for my truck and finally installed them. I have an '01 AC SR5. I wanted them because of two reasons. 1. Trips to the rock/gravel yard were un-nerving making my truck sag. 2. Eventually a more robust Four Wheel Camper or similar is in the works which I need support in the rear. This is the solution that worked for me vs airbags which are a great, but slightly more complicated but robust solution for rear support. Airbags are awesome stuff, just not my cup of tea for my application.

After the installation now the trips to the rockyard aren't scary anymore, no more nose in the sky and light steering. The rear end bounce/liveliness is DEFINITELY more noticeable but not horrible. I might have gone with the blues (one stage less support) in hindsight if this was my daily driver, it's just my weekend truck (and eventually camping rig).

Thanks all for supporting one another with the info that helps us all make decisions on our awesome trucks.

 

Got the airbags and the camper. I'll post up a picture soon. The springs were pretty squat with the airbags empty and I'll probably still do some new leafs in the back. Thinking about the AG medium duty springs with airbags. Should help with support and still have a nice ride when the camper is unloaded.

 

Couple things people should think about:

Air bags should never eliminate a chassis bumpstop, ever, ever. That is how you bend your frame around an air bag/mount when it loses air pressure or it is just compressed until it hits metal to metal. I have customers who properly install the airbag forward of the axle, and retain bumpstop or run our U-bolt flip, no problem.

Sumo springs are an expensive but poor alternative to increasing the leaf pack spring rate. They are not a bumpstop, and they rob you of your bump travel, severely limiting travel.

Stock 1G packs are prone to cracking and lack support for the ends of main leaf, which bends around lower leaves. If you're doing HD stuff, it's highly recommended you replace the spring pack from the beginning. People who are serious but start with AAL, usually end up going to a full pack afterwards, so save your money and time by getting a real leaf pack upgrade out of the gate. It's the better way. We've decided not to offer an AAL due to shortcomings of stock 1G packs. I've found only about 750lbs centered on rear axle drops the stock rear springs about 4" right onto stock bumpstop. This is Toyota's standard pickup method across the board, caddy soft rear, embarrassing for a pickup other than for commuting in it. 3rd gen Tundras are the same.

 

That is great advice @Archive thank you.
You described exactly what I did; I already had an AAL and have the airbags forward of the axle and still have my bumps in place. But I would feel better with new leafs in place that have more leafs in the pack. I want to give it a little bit to try and decide exactly what I want, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going with your MD pack because without the camper I don't keep weight in the rear.

 

I do think that one thing to note is if you already have a lift in the rear via blocks, not AAL's, sumo springs can work really well. You may have a different opinion on blocks vs AAL's but one advantage of blocks is keeping factory ride while lifting. I have 2 1/2" blocks in the back and my sumo springs (blues) have a gap of about a 1/2 inch til they hit the frame, so they are working as bump stops but minimalize sag when I am towing a camper or load down the bed. I've been a big fan of them on lifted trucks w/o AAL's.

 

Blocks only lift, they don't increase bump travel or improve load handling ability. They can be fine depending on usage.

We are focused on improving the suspension for off road and HD use. I understand not everyone needs that, or some are willing to accept compromises. But we know what the best solution is with least compromises.

As for ride, just received this email yesterday:

"Hi Eric,

Finally got around to installing the MD springs on my 04 tundra. I just wanted to let you know that these things ride incredible and are awesome. I’m am very happy with them, thank you for such a great product!"

 

Well I finally made it back with the camper and got to test the airbags out. Here she is all loaded.

 

Resurrecting this because it's the most relevant thread Ive found in regards to rear suspension for 1000+ lbs in the rear.

Im adding a ~1200lb camper soon, and I'll probably have it on the truck more often than not. I currently have stock leafs (that are in surprisingly good shape) and new 5160 shocks. Sounds like the AAL is a band-aid, but may make sense paired with bags?. Curious about people's thoughts on this:

- Start with a new HD leaf pack (90-221HD) and see how things sit/ride, possibly add bags if needed?
- Just add airbags to the current leaf pack?
- AAL and airbags with current leaf pack?

I understand that the AAL is just prolonging the inevitable replacement of the leaf pack, but does that change if it's paired with an airbag that makes up for the added load?

Thoughts?

 

You say you have stock leafs right now? Any rear suspension mods currently (blocks, AAL)?
What kind of terrain are you going to be driving on? Taking the camper on trails, highway and dirt roads, or what? That will factor in the decision.

If you want to maintain your current ride height then I would just add the airbags. HD leafs or an AAL will help with additional weight and will most likely increase ride height a little. The airbags themselves are going to support the weight much better, and I'd say will be almost mandatory. With 1,000 pounds sitting on the truck "more often than not" you are going to wear out the suspension without the support from the airbags. Plus, with just the suspension supporting the weight you're going to have some body roll from the suspension loading and unloading.

What most don't necessarily think about is that there will be more than the 1,000 pound camper. When you add water, propane, gear, food, etc you're going to be over 1,200 pounds quickly.

 

Definitely some dirt roads/trails, but mostly highway/country roads driving to and from.

I want it safe, reliable, capable. Therefore, leaning towards starting with a new HD leaf pack. Then I can decide whether or not the bags are necessary. Just painful because unloaded, the current leafs look fine. I have 6112's on the front, so they can be adjusted up, and 5160's in the rear so they're ready for 1-1 1/2" of lift.

I'm having trouble understanding the necessity of the bags if you have an all new HD leaf pack, other than adjusting for sag when loaded/unloaded. For instance, what do bags do to help body roll that a beefier leaf/shock don't?

Edit: Are you on stock leafs, AAL, airbags?

 

I could be wrong but I think the HD leafs only support an extra 500 pounds over stock. When you take a sharp curve or go through a small ditch where one side is leaning, you're going to be sending a lot of weight to the other side. It's going to potentially be a lot more than the extra 500 pounds that the leaf is made for.
You can see my green truck a few posts up. I had an AAL with the overload leaf installed plus airbags. That camper was 1200 pounds dry.
Obviously you can do what you want, I'm just telling you my suggestion based on how my truck acted with the weight.

 

Regardless what you go with out back leaf-wise, you're going to want to want the bags to air up when the camper is back there. Just make sure you plumb them independently. You don't want them passing air between the bags b/c they're connected. It kinda defeats one of the two main purposes.

 

Archive Garage MD and HD leaves are on sale currently!
https://archivegarage.com/products/...ries-shackleton-leaf-springs-tundra-2000-2006

My experience with air bags is that bags are nice for mild load adjustment, not handling all of 1200-1500 lbs on a stock leaf pack.

I had an E-350 7.3 van that came with Firestone bags, stock 3/1 leaf packs similar to 1G Tundra. Payload was 3,400 lbs, but at only 2,000 lbs added, and 65 psi in bags, it wallowed around leaning and feeling like dog crap. I added a beefy leaf pack and it was a great combo with bags, and it had confidence to add full payload.

I found it better to do an HD leaf pack, and have the bags for mild adjustment so you have variable load capacity

 

I don't see a sale price on that link. Those are super beefy compared to the "heavy duty" pack Im looking at.

Anything wrong with these if paired with bags?

https://www.truckspring.com/product...oaake1OclvZwBKA-spo55pE1Lt7rjjZgaAqdjEALw_wcB

 

I hear you, I appreciate the insight.

 

Sale is 10%, discount automatically added in cart. Our springs are tuned for their rated weight range
You won't be happy with those mehico springs, I've had more than 1 person say "I shoulda went Archive"

 

Pop the Firestone Ride Rite bags on and don't look back. Problem solved. I've had them on every iteration of Toyota truck (including the T100) except the gen 3.
They are legit.
Looks like you are driving a Gen 1...

 

I have ATS HD leaf springs, 5100s and Firestone air bags. Just air bags will get you through, but you won't like the ride. Your stock leaf pack, in surprisingly good condition or not, will immediately be blown out as soon as you add 1,000 lbs of weight.

I used the blue Sumo Spring with my stock leaf pack. They worked great for my camper trailer with 300lbs tongue weight. Once I threw a slide-in camper in the back, it felt ok for a couple weeks. Then it was clear I was riding with all the weight on the Sumo Springs, my leafs were toast and my new shocks along with them.

My current setup, listed in the first sentence, works great for the slide in. Archive makes a great product but I couldn't spend the money. The ATS HD leaf pack with air bags was a good compromise for me. If Archive springs are in your budget, that'd be a great upgrade. You'll still probably want the air bags.

 

I went with airbags, as the cheapest, fastest solution and never looked back.

 

All I see is leaf pack options for 4WD. Does Archive or anyone make a leaf pack for 2006 2WD DC. Can the 4WD version be made to fit. I have air bags but I want a good quality set of springs to go on the truck

 

Leaf springs are the same for 2WD and 4WD.

 

When I study Toyota part numbers, there are different part # for 2WD and 4WD. But looking at dimensions, all dimensions seem to be the same between the 2WD and 4WD. I figured perhaps the only difference is "spring rate" and I would be good with the after market 4WD spring pack. Thanks Kimosabe

 

I could sort of see that. But the extra weight of the 4WD is all up front with the extra diff and axles.
Back is the same.

 

Usually 2WD vehicles are set lower to the ground. I've never seen a 2wd tundra, but there is a huge difference with the taco's and most other vehicles.

 

You are correct, there are some lower 2WD Tundras according to measurements as well that I got from customers. (measure around 8" top of axle to bottom of frame)
I feel like they were rarer and maybe only with AC trucks, not DCs, but I don't know exactly. I found an early 2wd reg cab that I measured and it wasn't low

Hmm, I feel like new mexican packs, bags and sumos are equal or more than Archive leaves made in USA with US steel. And Archive leaves at least save you time trying all the other stuff 1st and finding it less than ideal

 

Alright, I got HD leafs installed to pick up the camper and they handled it well even without bags.

I have bags to install, but just realized that the stock bump stop is probably too short to take the load before the airbag would. I’m assuming I need taller bump stops before I install the bags? What do people go with for these? Quick search says they’re kind of spendy…

 

What brand are you looking at? Most airbags take the load through the entirety of travel, and since they get progressively stiffer, I don't even know what you would be doing to even get to the bump stops anyway.

 

I got Firestone knock-offs, which Im sure people will hate on, but from what I can tell they're pretty much the same thing for half the price. I've seen some speculation that they are actually the same bag.

I guess you're right, in theory the bumps would only matter in the event that an airbag failed? I don't plan on driving hard or offroading much, especially loaded, but thought it would be a good failsafe for that one instance that things bottomed out.