Another new driveline shudder, only from a stop at low speed

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and thinking about just firing the parts cannon at it but thought I would document this anyway to see what the consensus might think about it.

Recently, just in the last week or so, I've noticed a new shudder - not sure I'd even call it a vibration and certainly not a clunk - that only presents when accelerating slowly between a dead stop and about 15 mph, then it all smooths out. By shudder I'd describe it as if the truck is rolling over a subtle cobblestone road, and I can feel the bumps through the whole truck.

What I know so far:

• My transmission crossmember is cracked - it's been cracked since I first had a popping issue some 7 or 8 years ago, I tightened the bolts then and never heard/felt said popping since. I just checked the bolts and was able to tighten them another 1/8-1/4 of a turn. I have not driven the truck yet today. I'm at the point I'm fully willing to just replace the crossmember, knowing it's cracked even though tightening the bolts "fixed it" so many years ago
• My carrier bearing looks bad, and the driveshaft is visibly not centered in the support as it's sagging, but I've also read many threads here talking about just how awful theirs looked but replacing it fixed nothing - I still figure it should be replaced
• U-joints - I'm a 2wd, so no grease fittings, and since I don't have constant/more frequent vibrations at higher speeds I'm inclined to think these are fine - but the question to the group, I'm at 194K miles - if I am already down there pulling the driveshaft, should I just replace all 3 anyway?
• Transmission fluid - hate not having a dipstick - I see fluid on the tunnel, so I can only assume I might have some seeping out of the tail of the transmission and maybe the front U-joint/driveshaft is slinging it onto the tunnel. So today I hope to check the level of the fluid - did I mention I hate not having a dipstick - and if low I will add fluid. For what it is worth, there are no drips hanging off of the tail end of the transmission, and I have never seen a single drop on the ground anywhere under the truck.
• I am likely due for a drain and fill anyway as I last did it in 2018 about 65K-70K miles ago - if I do feel like there is a leak at the output shaft seal, hopefully would become obvious when I remove the driveshaft, I'd replace that too but not sure how common that is and if the fluid I'm seeing supports that theory

I think that's all that's crossed my mind - again, I'm not really all that hesitant to do all the things - drain and fill (and change the output shaft seal), replace all 3 U-joints, replace the carrier bearing and replace the crossmember. The ol' girl deserves it anyway - but just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything in the process, or how my train of thought tracks with those here who may have experienced this.

I'll add pics in the next post.

 

1st things first, that carrier bearing should be replaced. Get Spicer (/Dana) replacement, Spicer is the OEM that Toyota used for the driveshafts, carrier, u-joints. Note there are two part #s for our trucks, be sure to get the correct one. Be sure to mark the driveshaft positions so the two driveshafts get reinstalled clocked the same way in conjunction with each other.

Crossmember, the TSB is in the megathread sticky (search for the word "TRANNY") and the part number you need is in the TSB.

If you do replace the u-joints, 200k is a really good lifespan, it's about time. Again, Dana/Spicer, and your option whether to do sealed or zerk'd. Again, mark your driveshaft positions, although, frankly, I have a driveshaft shop near me that will replace u-joints for about 20% more than I can get discounted parts, and same is true for the carrier, and they only use Dana/Spicer, so ... maybe you have the same, if you don't feel like doing the work.

Transmission ... I can see an output seal potentially dropping fluid, but you should be seeing it under the truck, and the valve covers and half-moon plugs are more prone to leaking than that sealed trans is. But I'll tell you, if that is transmission fluid, that's awfully brown/burnt looking. Does it still look brown when wiped on a white paper towel, or does it look more burgundy, any red hue at all?

 

Definitely planning to replace the carrier bearing, but was surprised to read in several other threads how frequently despite looking like mine or worse, it wasn't the solution to the vibrations the users were experiencing.

I haven't found anything about two part #s for the carrier bearing, unless you're referencing 2wd vs 4wd trucks - can you confirm/elaborate on that?

Oh I 100% have oil leaks as well - again, it's never been enough to see a single droplet on the ground and my dipstick never reads low in between a normal 5k change interval, but the engine is a general mess from at least one if not multiple places. I plan to try and have that tackled at my next timing belt change within the next 6 months. So I did consider this may be engine oil just finding its way down to the transmission tunnel, and in fact find that to be most likely given the lack of any visible drips off of the yoke shroud at the tail of the transmission.

Here's a pic based on what I rubbed off of the transmission tunnel (which is not exactly clean) and laid alongside some oil from the dipstick which has about 4k miles on it. I think there's a bit of a red hue there, would argue it's definitely not new but it's not burnt either. This transmission fluid is almost 7 years old with somewhere in the neighborhood of 65K miles. Again though, never seen a single drop on the ground of any fluid of any kind so any leaks I have are seeping at best. Worth noting perhaps I also changed my radiator about 8 months ago which may have resulted in a little bit of transmission fluid loss, but should not have been much. Either way like I said I'm due for a drain and fill so I'll make sure to do that soon - I just want to ensure if there is a seal leak I take care of it at the same time.

 

2WD and 4WD are different parts, and almost none of the online vendors get it right, and they don't even give you the truly correct part# out of the (three? four?) Spicer parts that will technically "fit". So there's two places for them to screw up: 2WD vs. 4WD and there are two or more variations that will show in systems as "fitting", although not all of those are OEM-equivalent fitment/function.

If you wanted to buy from a dealer (read this reply in full for big discount info), the OEM carrier for 2006 part numbers are 37230-35120 (with 2WD, any cab) and 37230-34030 (with 4WD, any cab).

Spicer equivalent is 5002334 for 2WD and Spicer 5002007 for 4WD. The main difference (I think?) is the donut/seal is only on one side in 2WD and on both sides in 4WD? I think? But either will fit, I think? I feel like @des2mtn or @The Black Mamba was walking someone through this recently, maybe one of them can clarify that interchange point.

All of those hyperlinks are to legit parts sources. Never buy parts on scAmazon/fleaBay/WallyMart/Temu/etc. The risk of getting counterfeits is far too high, regardless what storefront they say you're at, or who is selling. If you prefer not to use RockAuto, who usually has the best pricing, Summit Racing is similar after taxes/ship/etc. but that little extra coin buys you real humans for customer service.

And before you say, "BUT HOLY FUCK! $320 for a carrier bearing?!!" please note: If you use the Toyota Parts site I linked to, when you select a dealer near you, each local (participating) dealer gives you a discount. I checked pricing with all three through the national parts website, and this is the standard price **IF** I initiate the order through the Toyota Parts site. If you go up to the counter, they're gonna charge you the full price, no discount. Starting your order at the national parts site is a fast and easy way to unlock 10-60% off instantly.

If you're in/around Auburn as your name and location may suggest, I don't think Allen Turner Toyota (formerly Lynch Toyota, which is where I got my 1st gen) participates in the Toyota Parts Program, your nearest participating dealer will be in LaGrange GA, I think, which is like 15-20 or something miles over the border, right off the interstate. If you're not in Auburn, a few other participating dealers are Toyota of Montgomery, Toyota of Sylacauga, and Sunny King Toyota, Sunny King is where my truck was sold to its 1st owner.

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I’ve only read that. But I’ve read that to be correct

 

Aha! I found this from @gagecalman which actually shows the two Spicer parts side by side.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/carrier-bearing-play-allowance.151788/#post-3786538
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So it would appear the 4WD may fit the 2WD, but it has extra seals. As far as the part interchange issue, that's shown pretty clearly in that thread also, two replies down from that picture.

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Got it, thanks - I'm familiar with the Toyota online parts discount process, just ordered my crossmember from Ourisman this morning, but typically my local dealer (Palmer's, I'm in Mobile now) is pretty close and I'll just order things and pick them up in person. And yeah, I saw the $320 carrier but even at $220 discounted, I'll take a Dana/Spicer for $60 from RockAuto - the only place I buy parts other than from Toyota - all day everyday.

I am now wondering if both the 2wd and 4wd versions will fit, why wouldn't I want the 4wd one with double seals?

 

Do it and report back, for science

 

Hmm, I do like a good science experiment. But I'll just be content to kick the can down the road another 194K miles and go with the recommended part for my truck. Plus the 4wd one is $80, and 20 dollars is 20 dollars.

 

Replaced the carrier bearing, all 3 U-joints, and crossmember last night. I had ordered a transmission seal just to have on hand but once I pulled the driveshaft I'm pretty convinced it's not leaking. Upon test driving the straight line shudder/rumble strip feeling is gone, but now I get a much less pronounced one on slow acceleration while turning. I only drove around the neighborhood for a few minutes so I'll do more testing today, but in that few minutes I had myself convinced it's almost like a limited slip issue - which the diff fluid was just changed 9k miles ago (Valvoline).

Also still planning to do a couple or three transmission drain and fills regardless, just need to find a little more time - last time I did transmission fluid I did the whole "pump it out via the radiator lines" but thinking a basic drain and fill is more appealing to me now for one reason or another...possibly laziness.

As the Tundra turns...

 

Yeah, I might've failed to mention earlier, that doesn't look like tranny fluid to me, and if it isi, it's superfuckingburnt.

Yeah, sounds like chatter to me. If it happens also, especially while cold while reversing with the wheels at full lock, it's probably LSD chatter.

While you may have used one of the only brands who makes normally-compatible diff fluids for LSD rears in our truck, the clutch pack in your LSD rear may already be worn because someone else used the wrong fluids prior. But if it happens, at speeds below 5mph, and specifically while turning, and it feels almost like skipping, it's likely diff chatter.

One way to find out would be to dump half a bottle of slip additive into it, you could apply that with a funnel via the breather hole (remove the breather). I just hate the thought of adding slip additive to fluid that already has a slip additive package in it --- I'll never understand people who willy-nilly add slip additive in. What happens when you don't want the clutche packs to slip?

 

You did mention that in a prior reply, I agree based on how it looks but in my defense that was wiped off of the super disgusting bottom of the truck which would turn a white paper towel brown or black even without any fluid. But when I pulled the driveshaft the few ML of fluid that dripped out was nice and bright red.

Kind of what it feels like, and that feeling is exactly why I changed the diff fluid ~9K miles ago. But I'm not against adding a bit of additive to it and testing it out.

 

2000 4.7 4wd. Mine has had a shudder from a stop since day one. Toyota put a new drive shaft in it. No change. Service manager kept it a day for inspection to see of he could locate the issue. Didn't find anything. It's had that slight shudder from a stop for a quarter century and nearly 300k miles. Maybe it'll get fixed one day like my brakes did after 200k miles of warped discs. Who knows...

 

That's wild. I've owned this truck for 15 years and 165k miles so I'm pretty familiar with most of its history and symptoms, this one was definitely new and actually got dramatically worse just within the course of a week or two. The carrier bearing fell apart when I removed it so I know that was my primary issue. Honestly the slight shudder that's left may have already been there for a while, I'm just hyper focused on it now if that makes sense.

 

Absolutely it makes sense.

I believe my 2000 was among the first at Chattanooga Toyota. The shudder is slight from a stop but enough that it's noticeable. Otherwise, the entire power train is smooth and quiet. Hasn't worsened or improved over the years.

 

Totally makes sense. I'm hyper-attuned to clunk sounds when I back my truck out every day. I swear, it sounds like the springs are moving around in the pockets of my coilovers, like they're lacking an isolator or something, I can't unhear it, and I'm farily interested in addressing that situation sooner than later.

But yeah, one other thing to acknowledge here is simply that having a blown-out carrier, or anything else causing vibrations in the driveline, will cause other things in the driveline to fail. For example, that vibration could've caused issues with your u-joints, which you replaced most of, pinion or ouput shaft bearing, or even the joints in the double-cardan, which are listed as "non-serviceable" but suspect someone knowledgable could probably manage. Granted, if the U-joints you installed are zerk'd, failure to grease thoroughly after install could also cause mild vibes. I think we all look for grease to exit the cap seal, but like, stupid shit happens, like when I went to grease my new SPC upper control arm UBJ, and apparently airlocked my grease gun on the new tube, so I only got a few pumps into one side, nd just didn't notice, I could tell the boot got something into it, but it clearly wasn't enough.

I'd also say, slip additive would potentially reduce the condition it if it's chatter and you added enough. Since you'll be fluid-swapping in the next 20k-40k miles depending on your preferred schedule or towing practices, it may be something to do. CRC makes the Trans-X product which most local parts stores carry, and is tubed with a tip, so install via the breather doesn't require a funnel. It's what I used when I was trying to quell my chatter after using Mobil1 synthetic in my LSD (big mistake).

 

Right on.

I opted for Spicer non-greasable ("heavy duty" according to RockAuto) U-joints, it's just something I know I wouldn't keep up with. Also I'm 2wd, so none of this mysterious double-cardan to worry about. At least I assume that's a 4wd only thing, but I definitely do not have one. My drivetrain has 3 U-joints, and as of last night they're all shiny and new.

 

Pics…we like pics of everything

 

Eek. Ah, well you saw the carrier bearing before, here is the new one and one new U-joint…and that’s the only pic I took last night.



I did have an interesting moment where the new crossmember didn’t quite line up with a couple of bolt holes, but between a dead blow, a pry bar and an impact gun I made it happen.

 

Ha!

Hey, as long as you didn’t install the carrier upside down or backwards, you’re golden. I believe it should be with the single hole pointed at the concrete, and depending on whether its 2WD or 4WD carrier, knowing what’s front or rear (since I don’t think there’s an arrow) varies.

 

There was an arrow! Because I did have that brief moment of panic. Hope I guessed right and the arrow points forward. And yes, got the single hole pointed down.

 

Also here is a current pic of the old crossmember, where the cracks are obvious. When I first learned of the issue years ago I did find the bolts were all loose and got tightened then, and they were still tight now. But with these cracks I’m sure there is/was some movement hence worth replacing while I was under there. Of note, when I reinstalled the bolts (with blue loctite), while torquing to 22 ft-lb one of them was already stripped, which I must have done previously but it never backed out. You can actually get to the backside of these bolts and I think there is room enough to get a nut on them so I’ll probably do that on all 4 for good measure. They are surprisingly tiny bolts into a very thin flange of metal with no backing nut, which is just silly to me.