Rear Brake Adjustment FSM doesn't make sense

I've read through every thread on here regarding rear brake adjustments and PB brake adjustments etc. The FSM about adjusting the bell cranks arent making any sense to me.

Specifically the a) and step b)...
Wth are they talking about here? I pull the bell crank back until there is no slack in B, and the attached pictures show the space between the adjustment bolt and the back plate..like at least a whole inch with it threaded all the down, theres no way its even remotely close to .4mm as they suggest. When I let go of the bell crank then the bolt obviously now touches the back plate since it is adjusted down all the way. What am I missing here?

 

Did you accomplish "Installation is in the reverse order of removal" before doing step 1 ?
Drum has to be on.

 

I'm not even sure what they're even tying to say there...i have new drums and shoes installed, but brake pedal hits the floor basically before it does anything and rears dont seem to be working, parking brake isnt holding at all (similar to what everyone else issues have typially been). Seems like the drum is supposed to be off to confirm the adjustment lever is working properly as stated in part 2?
Edit: i think i see what you're saying. Will try that part again with the drum on

 

No difference in the space of the adjustment bolt with drum on are off

 

Have you bled the entire system?

 

Yes has been bleed, but I know the parking brake isn't adjusting or even working. Getting a few clicks when pushing down the pedal but the shoes aren't grabbing to the drums since the truck moves in reverse or drive while PB is on. And trying to follow the manual for the bell crank adjustment has me lost

 

This is why I ask. Either you have air in the system, or you have another problem. How exactly did you bleed the brakes?
Edit: The reason I'm harping on bleeding the brakes is because we need to have the basics first. Let's get the main hydraulic system working correctly before we freak out about the cable actuated parking brake.

 

If you have double checked your install, mind taking a picture with drum off showing good picture of installed components.
Don’t catch all threads but all my time here never seen that kind of difference at bell crank.

 

That part 'B' should be attached to a short cable that is attached to the parking 'lever/actuator thingy' (the shaded item in F007757)inside the brake drum. Did that get unhooked or missed out? Or not get routed properly under that hook?

 

Got ya--appreciate covering all bases, so let me start from the top then to give a full picture--just recently purchased the truck, started to notice the brakes weren't too great and that the PB barely held and wouldn't hold if slightly pressing on the gas (in Reverse or Drive), or on any kind of pitch. Can tell the rotors may be warped as I can feel vibration in the steering wheel when braking and coming to a stop--felt like the rear brakes weren't really working and the fronts were overworking and probably overheating. Bell Cranks were rusted and seized, same with equalizer pivot points. I just replaced bellcranks myself and bushings on the equalizer. While I had a drum off and putting a shoe back on, a wheel cylinder popped and leaked. I replaced that. However after doing so the hard brake line connecting to it needed to be replaced since it started slowly leaking. I ended up just taking to a shop so they could replace the rear passenger line, and do the other wheel cylinder and put on new shoes (since they were cracked) and drums. So they also did the bleeding. I just got the truck back yesterday and noticed the brake pedal had to travel pretty far for the brakes to engage which led me to trying to do a rear brake adjustment today. Also, just found out they couldn't locate a bleeder valve on the LSPV--so they did all 4 corners but not that--will try and take it back so they can do that since I did tell them to do it as part of the process originally. All that said, I believe that's 1 part of this problem, as well as not being able to get the PB/bell cranks adjusted correctly.

 

Ah, I see...so my first reaction would have been to return it to the shop that did this work and tell them "make it right"!

 

I took these before I decided to come back in and before I saw this post. Everything seemed in order, and the adjustment lever works, and the star adjuster works, springs are in place. But i had the same spacing of the bell crank adjustment bolt even before i got these new shoes/drums in yesterday

 

Yes it is connected to the adjustment lever thats attached to the front shoe and on the bell crank, however when I checked the passenger side and saw the short pb cable was UNDER the hook, I realized this side (driver's) may not have been. But i already put the tire on and was packing up for the day so didnt confirm. If I recall correctly, I believe the passenger side had the same issue with spacing of the bell crank bolt anyways when I previously tried adjusting

 

Yes, agreed. Just to confirm, this is the lspv bleeder, located high on the frame right(consistent with others' that I've seen here)?

 

Yep. It seems to like to get air trapped. Probably because it sits higher than anything else in the rear, and is the last stop before forking off to the rear wheels.

 

I should be able to get them to bleed this valve since they didn't originally, but I feel like they will have no clue on how to do the rear adjustment and I wouldn't be surprised if they push back on if it is even part of their brake replacement job to do so.

 

Unbolt the arm from the rear axle and push it up. That opens the lspv valve more and makes bleeding easier iirc.

 

Hopefully this shop doesn't give you a hard time and are not willing to make it right because you've been in there messing with it. I'm dubious of their abilities to work on these trucks by what you're telling us. Might be time to find another shop. It's generally not recommended to bleed these brakes the traditional way of pumping them up and then releasing until the pedal falls to the floor. If they did that, they could have blown the seal in the master cylinder/brake booster. Vacuum bleeding or pressure bleeding is the way go on these. LSPV, right rear, left rear, right front, left front is the preferred sequence if I'm not mistaken. Then you've got to throw in proper adjustment of the LSPV to get good braking on the rear. I think you might be able to see why I wouldn't trust this to a chain store or someone who doesn't know these trucks.

 

Have you read this? In it's entirety?>>>https://www.tundras.com/threads/rear-brake-adjustment-theory-and-practice.99575/

 

Yeah I'll give them a call today, and I agree--this is why I try to do things I'm comfortable doing on my own after doing research on learning how especially when it comes to more specific applications such as our 20 year old trucks for example (but I'm just an average DIYer at best). Not sure what method they use to bleed, considering they are a shop I would hope they use either vacuum or pressure.

I have read through it several times, which is what prompted me to attempt on adjusting mine along with these others :
https://www.tundras.com/threads/drum-brake-star-adjuster-lever-revisited.94151/

https://www.tundras.com/threads/tools-to-loosen-the-drum-brakes-via-the-star-adjuster.95912/

https://www.tundras.com/threads/sploded-wheel-cylinder.98160/

 

I took these yesterday to see what happens when applying the PB. I realize if i had something else to prop the phone on I could get a better angle to capture what the actual adjustment lever is doing and if it is turning the star wheel. Upon reviewing it, looks like the driver side is adjusting when engaging in PB but not the passenger.

The first clip is the driver side. You can clearly hear the adjuster wheel clicking.

The next 2 clips are of the passenger (one clip showing the pb cable in the drum). There doesn't appear to be any click from the adjustment lever and star wheel. You can only hear me pushing the PB pedal up and down.

Does my assessment sound correct? And to fix this, do I need to adjust the slack for the passenger side by making it tighter so the bell crank can pull back further which would allow the adjuster lever to move the star wheel?

 

This is off topic but you mention you just bought the truck and it sounds like the brake lines had some rust issues and I see the underside has been coated in something.... That's either a sign of good preventative maintenance or someone covered all the rust so you couldn't see it...

 

It would be good preventive maintenance. The frame was just replaced at toyota via the recall before i bought it, and I just had a place apply wool wax on it.

 

This sound pretty similar to what I dealt with when I did the brakes on my truck, last summer.

Have you tried adjusting them manually, with a short flathead screwdriver?

Even after I completely replaced every component in my rear brakes, I was never super satisfied with how much the parking brake would adjust the shoes. I've started to manually adjust my brakes when I do oil changes, but mostly because I snapped the cable and haven't fixed it yet. I was surprised with how tight mine needed to be adjusted to achieve good brake pedal engagement.

 

I'll give that a shot since I haven't had a chance to mess with it again since I posted this thread the other day after getting the truck back. And I'll keep that in mind for the tightness--curios, in your case did you tighten them until there was little-to-no movement when trying to spin the wheel manually after you adjusted them? I'm taking it back to the shop this weekend so they can re-flush the LSPV properly and will have them troubleshoot the rest of the brake system including the PB with me if the brake still feels soft or mushy after that.

I remember you mentioning your cable snapped from rust, but were your bell cranks ever that far apart from the backing plate when pulled back like this? And by you having to manually readjust at oil changes, I'm assuming that's a matter of you having to turn the adjuster wheel tighter so the shoes actually bite onto the drums since they likely worn some tread off throughout that time and your cable (since broke) isn't able to accomplish this automatically?

 

Yup, I tightened the shoes so that the wheels were pretty difficult to move. Like, they would stop moving pretty much as soon as I released my hands. I’ve only done this with the wheels attached. I’m not positive if this is the best method, but it sure makes my brake pedal feel good.

I don’t think my bell cranks ever pulled as far as yours, but I replaced literally everything inside the drums. Maybe that little cable that goes between the bellcrank and the arm is stretched?

 

Hm that's actually a great point and im glad you brought that up, thanks--I never thought of it being stretched, I just know that the cable is in tact (although not in the best shape) but never had a refernce to what they should be in good shape and not stretched. I think my next steps are to make sure it's routed under the hook within the drum, and likely just replacing them.

 

As a resolution to this (kind of)--I went back last weekend and told them to bleed the LSPV and test the brake pedal to make sure it wasn't mushy anymore and watched/guided like a helicopter parent (they do the 2 man method btw smh). I tried to explain the rear adjustment system on our trucks and the problem with mine but it was like I was speaking Korean. I eventually gave up and just let them manually adjust so that the rear shoes were snug on the drum, tested that the PB actually holds when engaged and shift to D or R. Brake pedal still doesn't feel as tight as I would hope but a pretty significant improvement nonetheless. Also not as good as another vehicle I drive in comparison, but is at least satisfactory enough and able to drive it regularly again. I'm still confident only the driver side is getting self adjusted when engaging the PB as seen in my videos above, but I just don't feel like troubleshooting the passenger side for now, will eventually get around to doing so though.

 

The self adjusters are lackluster in these and even have a revised (likely already discontinued our out of stock) part number for the starwheel that had a different tooth count. I manually adjust mine by getting the rears off the ground with jackstands and adjusting the starwheels through the service plugs on the back until they drag slightly every time I change the oil. I lube the driveshaft (you lazy sods!!) each time as well as rotate the tires at that time also. Part of my routine maintenance schedule.

 

I have had a similar experience where the shop I like doesn't understand these adjusters. I think I will be manually checking them but the parking brake engagement is a good metric for me, if it is engaging too low, I know I probably need to adjust my star wheels.