OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra - Throttle Lag/Hesitation From Stop Issue(s) - T-SB-0111-22

This certainly does seem like a huge corner case or needle in a haystack, if you will.

 

The only other thing you could suggest they do the initialization process outlined in the doc below, and preform the indicated drive patern to commence TCM learning. Its possible that may help some

 

I will certainly bring it up. Thanks!

 

This is what it feels like to me. It's not fully down shifted so when I take back off, it feels like it's slipping. But it's more like when you have snow assist where your vehicle starts in 2nd gear to help prevent wheel spin.

 

Just a quick update that will surprise no one here... Toyota has closed my case. Since I cannot reproduce the issue when someone from Toyota is with me, they will not work any further on the problem.

I hope that everyone experiencing this issue has at least once, if not every time it occurs, reported the issue at the two following locations:

NHTSA--> Toyota -->

 

CREDIT: Ryan Gregg Facebook Post

Tech Tip

T-TT-0777-25

Hesitation on Acceleration Post TSB-0111-22

APPLICABLE VEHICLES: '22-'25 TUNDRA, '22-'25 TUNDRA HV, '23-'25 SEQUOIA HV

CONDITION: Some customers may report a delay in throttle response from a complete or rolling stop. This may be described as a delay, lag, or hesitation. This concern may be present after the application of T-SB-0111-22

RECOMMENDATION: If this condition is identified, please halt all diagnosis and create a TAS case. If on a weekend or holiday, please continue repair and save all data/parts from the repair and contact TAS on the next available business day.


* Not A fix, but a direction from Toyota for dealer techs to report the customer concern to TAS Support. *

Good idea to mention this next time you go back into service, even if you were told it was normal before. Not probably worth it to go in specifically because of this.

 

Thank you very much for sharing this! It rekindles a little bit of hope in me that this may get fixed someday. I don't have much experience with things like this so I have a question. Do you interpret "If this condition is identified," to mean it's just reported by an owner or to mean a tech succesfully recreates the issue?

 

I believe that the sprit of the Tech Tip is the service deparmtent should open a TAS case even if they cant directly replicate. Its resonable that the Dealer should be willing to open a TAS case or if one was opened in the past to contact them for any updated guidance. If the tech was able to replicate the issue the procedure would have already been to open a TAS case so I don't think replication is a requirement, the tech tip would be redundant.

The tech Tip just came out on Friday, so techs are probably not going to be aware right away, so my recomendation is not to make a special trip for this.

I don't have the exact contents of the tech tip, but I beleive if there was a fix there would be a TSB or a procedure out already.

Totaly Speciatlive on my part:

The most likely reason for the tech tip is for Toyota to better guage how many people are reporting the issue, the vast majority of people that report this leave the dealer with no explantion and no TAS case created. Hopefully this stops that.

My reasoning for this in the past, i've seen smilar tech tips for driabliltiy issues, the tech tip directs them to capture specific PID from Techstream on the drive before opening a tas case, meaning that they were looking for specific data.

Until we hear from people that have had new TAS cases created we won't know for sure though.

The tech tip is a good sign that a repair/procedure at least is being researched. A large sign is the tech tip is applying to 22-25 and hybrids, and sequoas, whereas the orginal TSB only covered Gas Tundras only.

 

Thanks again, I appreciate the response. I'll give this a week or two to settle and then call my dealership and ask them to open a case on my behalf for this issue. I've done everything I can to log this in every place I can. I hope everyone experiencing it is doing the same. I'd really like a resolution so I can begin to trust my Tundra again when pulling out onto busy roads.

-Zero

 

I would say the majority of complaints on NHTSA website is for the lag, I'm surprised there isn't an open investigation on the issue.

 

I’ve had the lag since day one. Dealer couldn’t recreate it of course. It happens every single time I leave my neighborhood. I come to a stop, look both ways and turn left which is uphill. Every time it hesitates to go then kicks in and jumps. I actually tried flipping to sport mode yesterday and it’s a little less prevalent.
It does not really happen turning right as that’s downhill. But it has nothing to do with the truck being warm. I’ve gotten so used to it that I expect it. It is from a quick short stop, then go. When I’m at a stoplight for a bit longer it doesn’t happen. I had seen that the motor replacement had helped this for most who have shared their experience so I was hoping the same.

 

try tow+ and see if it’s there all

 

I’ve commented before in this, but at risk of proving myself wrong… I haven’t noticed it while towing in Tow or Tow+ while actually towing my camper. That said, I don’t accelerate fast with 5500lbs in tow, and surely the weight smoothes any sense of lurch after a hesitation, if one was present.

 

Just tried it. Did not notice the lag. Driving in tow mode is like driving a two stroke dirt bike vs a four stroke (tundra normal drive mode)

It’s like the truck is yearning for throttle. Not complaining just an observation.

 

Yup, beast mode , no torque management

 

Mine does the same. It's like it's not fully downshifted to 1st taking off. More like 2nd or 3rd. The kick you're talking about, I think is it downshifting due to pedal pressure and speed. And turn downhill , it's not as apparent because there is less load to get the truck moving

 

This is the hesitation I'm able to observe, Slowing down there was a downshift, then after 578ms I pressed the acclerator to about 34 percent, but it was about 390ms before the throttle was commanded in any meaningful way , I believe to experence the hestation, you have to achive Output axis speed 50 and less than 300rpm Input (NT) Speed. I took the timestamps and the total time from the Output axis (drive shaft) going from 50 to 100 RPM was about 781ms.

You can also see Engine RPM is very slow to ramp up despte the accelerator at 52.9% (basically half floored) which is not the same pattern I see under complete stop.

I belive the output axis speed being reported as 50 RPM is a critical requirement, as its very hard to see any delays at 100rpm or 150rpm. Acheving these exact speeds of the input and output of the transmission is very thread the needle and to apply the accelerator at the exact right moment to see the delay.

Since having the Transmisson Movement in Neutral recall I have not been able to log any hestation beyond about 390ms, but I'm not convinced just because I haven't that it couldn't happen. Keep in mind 390ms is the computer delay, by the time you feel it as a driver more time has passed.

 

Sounds really technical. What is the transmission movement in neutral recall???

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/?nhtsaId=24V125000

 

This one was from 9/9/2023 before the Transmission was updated for the recall, I have not seen a delay this long in some time, so I'm not sure if this condition was improved. A note here is that NT Speed 150 Output Speed 50 is a lot harder to acheive.

 

Unless you run in manual shifting mode, in normal drive mode the transmission starts out in 3rd gear for some ridiculous reason.

Leaving the house, I back down a 250' driveway while idling, wait while the gate opener opens the gate. Back out into the road, put in Drive to go up a slight incline... light pressure on the go pedal and it almost dies, then surges ahead. Every time.

 

I was not able to find any supporting evidence the transmission was not commanded into 1st gear for at least 500-700ms. (Starting in 2nd or 3rd) However the data stream doesn't provide any indication on what the solnoids status is therefore the exact gear the transmission is is not known.The only data pid provides is what the ECU is telling the TCM what gear to select. The NT Speed and Output shaft speeds are only reported in 50 rpm increments. However based on the NT speed ratio to the output speed ratio, there is some evidence that the transmission may not be in 1st gear even though it was told to but the pid is too inaccurate to know for sure.

Actually any time I've hit the gas before it was comanded to 1st gear, its always been really responsive, to the point I wish it wouldn't try to downshift to 1st until like 2mph.

However there is a TSB for hybrids that toyota acknowleged that the Hybrids try to start in 2nd Gear. If you have a hybrid you may want to visit the dealer to put the latest calibration on.

TSB-0018-24

Some 2023 – 2024 model year Sequoia Hybrid and 2022 – 2024 model year Tundra Hybrid vehicles may exhibit a condition where the vehicle starts in second gear from a stop and does not allow a manual shift to first gear (S1) without first switching to 4WD or driving over 15 mph. The brake actuator logic has been modified to address these conditions. Follow the Repair Procedure in this bulletin to address these conditions.

https://dot.report/bulletins/MC-11005034-0001.pdf

Its easy to figure out if this affects you because shifting into S1 is locked out.

 

I don't have a hybrid. But I'll try the manual downshift. I used to manual downshift my 19 Tundra all the time because I like hearing the exhaust and to preserve the brakes a little. But I heard engine braking wasn't good for it.? The V6, doesn't have enough mass to really slow you down like the V8 did. At least that's what Im thinking , because engine braking doesn't work as good with this one. I do know manually downshifting, getting off the interstate, it will beep instead of downshifting if you're rolling faster than that gear would allow.

 

From a dead stop pull forward about 10 yards. Come to a stop. Shift over to S1 and pull forward... HUGE difference. Answers the question with no need for computer readouts.

 

From a stop sign mine starts in first gear. Rolling stops, it depends on how much I slow down if it stays in third or drops to first.

 

I have the EXACT same scenario ... (minus opening the gate).
Every time, back down my driveway into the road, throw it in Drive, and then it feels like the tranny is slipping before it finally grabs HARD.
Doesn't happen any other time ... but it does happen EVERY time I leave my house.

 

I just figured out how you knew it was taking off in 3rd gear because it just felt like the tranny was slipping to me ...
I backed out into the street this morning and shifted from reverse to drive ... then slid over to "S" manual shift ... dash says "S3".
At a complete standstill it is at S3. I had to down shift twice to get it into S1. For such a smart truck this is so dumb.

 

That S mode doesn't work like you think. According to Toyota, it lets you select a shift range, it's not a true manual mode. The pic below is my truck at full stop. Car Scanner shows it's in first gear but when I move the shifter from D to S, the dash shows 4 and Car Scanner doesn't change. The link below has more info but I don't think they do a good job of explaining how S mode really works.

https://www.toyota.com/owners/warra.../ch04se020402/#ch04se020402__ch04se0204020505

 

this^

 

Most people don’t know this, but you don’t have to reply to a thread with “this^” anymore. They recently implemented a feature where you click the little button that says “like” to show you agree.