Tundra engine recall - interesting news

Didn’t Toyota say it was debris, and it was confined to a specified range of dates, after which issue was resolved?

Yet engines have failed well outside that range of dates.

Is it speculation to say, “hey maybe it’s not actually debris”?

I guess so, but not without good reason.

 

You could also speculate the cleaning process was improved but not perfected. That would explain a drop (according to spreadsheet) in failures but not a complete halt.

 

Which is why I am very willing to wait a while to have my motor replaced. Fingers crossed that is holds together for me.

 

I called the dealer I bought my truck from to see about getting the engine swapped under the recall. They said the parts were on back order but that I was on the list and they would give me a call in the next few weeks to get scheduled. I got my truck in Oct '22 and have close to 50k miles on it without any issues so far. The service rep made it sound like like they have done A LOT of these swaps done already.

 

Well that's inspiring...although I would expect from a statistical point of view that some of the long blocks would go down for various reasons as they are like any other production item. That being said, if it is yet another spun bearing/engine debris scenario...yikes...

 

The minions on here believe that the 3.4 TT suffers from an inherent design flaw which causes oil starvation on one of the cylinders. From all the high pressures and weird port angles the 3.4 TT suffers from a thermal dynamics issue where it might pop at any second. It gives all us v8 previous Gen owners the ability to pile on and pour salt into an open wound. That the Gen 3 is a ticking time bomb and all trucks regardless of year made suffer from all the same fatal flaw. This is a summary of how the v8 Tundra owners view this new Gen 3 Tundra.

Regardless until the first Gen 3 Tundra hits 300-400k miles on the original motor they are going to continue to pile on until they see that this Tundra is still a Tundra and as capable as any other Tundra ever made.

 

LOL

 

I've seen a lot of different speculative theories, but I've never seen anyone claim "oil starvation on one of the cylinders".

 

Oh, it is in there, the bearing at one of the back cylinders is designed from a different material or some crap, maybe the oil starvation is the result of a small passages designed for 0 weight motor oil. They get clogged and result in oil starvation, the speculation is real and goes from one thing to another all the time on here.

 

Show us where anyone has claimed oil starvation to one of the cylinders is causing the bearing failures.

 

Why aren’t there more failures reported on this forum?
It seems with the volume out there new failures should be popping up every day.

 

https://www.tundras.com/threads/oil-capacity-change-from-2017-to-2018.132236/#post-3813271

I've also read it in a few places, maybe not on this forum but in relation to the oil pump. Does the V35 use a variable discharge oil pump? Where I read it was speculated that at idle there may not be enough oil pressure /volume getting to cyl 1??? Will try to track down the references.

 

The novelty of it is gone. Why would people join a forum to come post about a problem everyone knows about? The manufacturer has done the recall and acknowledged these have a problem - so what service would they be providing?


When anyone links or screenshots anything from Facebook, Reddit, or anywhere else, it’s met with “the always reliable internet” posts.

 

I’ve seen posts about oil starvation at the main bearing - that’s no where near a cylinder.

 

Wrong. I'm actually rooting for Toyota to figure this all out, and am a huge fan of the Toyota brand. I do love 2nd Gen Tundras though, and they'd sure be a lot cheaper to buy right now if the market valued 3rd Gens (new & used) more.

But keep telling us what we think.

 

So if it is a design flaw, why doesn't it happen to every Tundra?

 

Isn't that the truth, I have been keeping an eye out for a decent deal on a relatively low mileage 2nd gen and the prices are high. I hope they figure out the 3rd gen and it is the greatest ever so the prices drop.

Same applies to the 6th gen 4 runner....I hope they knock it out of the park and 5th gen prices plummet!!!

 

because its not

 

So it is either debris or an assembly/ method problem, I guess, which are kinda the same thing. Although if it were really debris, I think it would happen more often. My early build 2022 runs great with clean oil samples, knock on wood. Got it for a great price because the first owner probably panicked and traded it in.

 

You all realize that Toyota as a brand has the highest resell value of most auto makers. Toyota trucks hold their values better than any other trucks on the market. Gen 2s being high is the result of Toyota resell value not because the Gen 3 failures. Gen 3s unaffected by the recalls have held value well and continue to hold value.

 

Then riddle me this batman... why have Gen 2 Tundra values literally been climbing?

Toyota resale values broadly have been great for a long time, but that doesn't mean you can buy a used Toyota and sell it for more than you bought it for down the road (ultra rare unicorns and weird COVID shenanigans being the exceptions to that rule). Yet, I've seen multiple people buy a used 2nd Gen Tundra and drive it for a while then make a profit selling it over the past year or so.

Again, I wish it wasn't the case, because I want to scoop up another 2nd Gen on the cheap

 

I wrote this last spring, just a guess as to being part of the problem. It was posted on this forum, but I can’t seem to locate it.

This is a hypothesis based on high performance engine oil feed systems and the oil related main and rod bearing failures seen on another Toyota engine, the FA series (GR86/BRZ). A high performance engine with a properly designed oil system should always feed the main and rod bearings first. This is called priority main oiling. The mains and rods see the most load and produce the most heat, thus, they need more pressure and flow volume than any other part of the engine, they take priority. Interruptions in flow here, even briefly, and the results can be devastating, wiping out a bearing(s) gradually, or quickly if the drop off is long enough.

The FA engine in the GR86 is seeing similar failures to the V35A. As far as I have read, these failures have been determined to be partially caused by a non-priority oiling system. The FA engine feeds the left cylinder head first, then the main oil gallery. So, when the car sees high performance/high g-forces, the sloshing oil in the pan can interrupt oil pickup, and oil feed to the pump is briefly reduced. The left head, being first in line, takes its share of oil, and with flow dropping off, the main gallery, second in line, does’t receive what is required. Boom.

The V35A-FTS is quite similar to the FA in that it has a non priority oil feed. Looking at this V35A timing cover from behind, the oil path and feed order is easily seen. Starting at the lower right, oil feeds into the oil pump. It then travels across the lower cover where it feeds out to, and then back in from the oil filter. The blue circles show the galleries being fed. First in line is the gallery for the left bank oil cooling jets, and possibly the turbocharger and cylinder head(I need to study the system more). Then, second, up top, is the main gallery, which feeds the crank/rods and the up to the heads(?). Last, a third gallery for right side jets and turbo and possibly cylinder head.

Does the V35A have an issue here? Maybe those oil jets crack open at just the wrong wrong time? The above is just a guess.

 

I bought a used Camry from an auction years ago, replaced the struts and spark plugs then drove the crap out of it and sold it for 500 dollars more than I paid for it. Toyota's always hold their value and have perceived value regardless of miles and years. Just like the hybrid Prius peps who buy bad battery cars and replace them then make thousands on them. The Gen 2 Tundra trucks may go up some due to the fact that there are built in fans for the v8 and people who search them out. I haven't really seen that much of an increase in prices from Gen 2 to Gen 3. I know the MSRP has gone up every year for the Gen 3 so this will automatically inflate the used market regardless of Gen. If I wanted a Gen 2 then I could find and buy one for a great price with 20-30-40k miles on the clock.

The FJ cruisers still bring crazy money for what they are as do older Land Cruisers and 4 Runners. There is just built in fans for those particular models.

 

I am not quoting that whole post above but the FA is a Subaru designed boxer unit. It has different oil passages than what a V deign would use. The GR86/ BRZ deaths are the result of starvation in corning when the oil would splash about in the pan and it would have intermittent pick up issues. I do not believe it is a passage issue but a pick up one, and only happens in strong cornering or racing track use. Subaru/ Toyota redesigned a new pick up and they no longer have these issues.

 

So maybe I wasn't clear enough. People don't make thousands more selling a used Toyota down the road, typically (they still depreciate). Your Camry example is not really the same situation because you bought it at auction (wholesale value) and then sold it at retail value. Yes, there are also niche examples like MR-2s, Supras, Land Cruisers, FJs, where the models simply don't exist anymore and have a cult following.

2nd Gen Tundras are not niche cult following collector models, and I can definitively tell you the prices of 2nd Gens have climbed significantly in the past 24 months. I searched high and low to find one from late '22 until late '23 when I finally found one, and now I see similar mileage/trim trucks going for $5-10k more than I paid, all day long.

 

Well then goodie you can sell your truck for more than you paid for it, I still do not think that Gen 2s are raising in value because the Gen 3 is such a failure. I think people who buy used vehicles and don't want car payments are one. I know my 2016 all original STI has only 24k miles on it, only 1 or 2 that fit the same condition, for sale throughout the country. I wouldn't let it go for less than 40k, similar ones are listed for 32-36k, but it will only appreciate due to the fact they no longer make them. There is a cult following and people or collectors want all original low mile examples. Hell 04-06 low mileage STIs have been bringing over 50k on BAT.

What you are seeing is what used Toyota's sell for, that will stay the same or even increase slightly. Someone is always willing to pay a premium for a great conditioned, used vehicle that has taken initial depreciation over a new one. Especially when mileage and condition is concerned and especially for used Nissan, Toyota and Hondas.

 

The novelty sure hasn’t worn off for you to post whatever bad news you can find here.

But failures that make their way to Ryan’s spreadsheet gets verified before being added. Would that process not suggest that maybe I was correct in my criticism on the eagerness to post doom and gloom since all your social media finds don’t seem to make it on there? It might still get verified but until then, there will always be a possibility that it simply isn’t true. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that.

The hypocrisy is what gets me though. You guys want 3 to 10 sources, driving somewhere to look and verify information, a blood oath and maybe even sacrifice of a first born in order to validate someone else’s info. You find a post on the internet from some rando and it’s above reproach.

 

where is this spreadsheet I have heard so much about and where can one find it?

 

The market, like people who buy trucks, don't value Gen3's?
Look at the sales numbers and average sales price on Gen3's.

 

So the novelty of real engines failures and those circumstances is over but 5W oil discussions go on and on.