Tundra engine recall - interesting news

There is obviously an issue and we are all just speculating on what the cause is. But if it was a design flaw we would be seeing all the truck fail and probably within the same amount of miles. I know the median failure is like 20k-35k miles based off the spreadsheet that was going around but it wouldn’t make sense that some trucks are making 80k to over 100k miles no issues while other trucks fail within 10k. I think machine debris is more than plausible to cause this issue and they could have tweaked cleaning processes and thought that was the end but wasn’t. Or possible after the blocks were machines they weren’t deburred properly and small fragments of materiel are hanging out and either you get lucky and the never break off, or you step on the gas and the oil pressure spikes and has enough pressure to dislodge the fragments sending them into the bearing. Dull tooling could cause some blocks to have that debris while other machines have fresh tooling and produce blocks with no issues. There are a lot of variables to the machine debris theory that could be legit. Also, could be why we see trucks failing at various mile ranges. But I’m just speculating here and I could very well be wrong.

 

Oil that doesn’t sounds like water when you shake it in the jug would probably help too!

 

indeed. Tolerance variation could also explain the disparity between mileages when failures occur.
And regarding lubrication intervals, didn’t Voldemort (he who shall not be named)* change at 500mi, 1k, 3k, 5k, 10k and still have the failure - that would rule that out as a variable.



*Maybe it was someone else - hard to keep track- but I do know he had several changes before the 10k and still ended up with a nuked motor.

 

Very true as well. And yep there are multiple people here that have changed their oil 3+ times before 10k miles and still had failures. I like the “he who shall not be named” comment, that is perfect! But he also suggested that premium gas was also helping but still had a failure. There really is no rhyme or reason and there is no arguing there is a problem with this motor that still needs to be solved.

I do think a BIG issue that plagued this truck from the beginning was Covid. Manufacturers probably laid off newer employees while offering buy outs for more experienced employees to just have them retire early. Which cause a huge influx of untrained entry level employees come aboard when manufacturing ramped back up. I think in order to meet demand these entry level employees were thrust into the fire and told to meet production no matter what. So I do feel corners were cut which probably helped accelerate this issue.

 

The biggest problem with the machining debris explanation is the fact that MY24 and at least one MY 25 truck(s) have failed. If machining debris is still the cause 4 years in, then Toyota has become entirely incompetent. I struggle to buy that

 

And just when you start to think not that many trucks are actually failing, something like this pops up. This poor guy won the lottery twice.

 

Well if Toyota can not fix an issue on a motor that has been in use since 2017, wouldn't that make them incompetent as well? Just an honest question, no ill will meant.

 

I have been involved in many root cause analysis of industrial quality and safety incidents, and in most cases you have two types of causes: direct and contributory. A direct cause is the one that ultimately caused the failure or incident. Contributory causes are the circumstance and other factors that induced the direct cause. For example, a pilots error resulting in a plane crash would be direct cause, but fatigue, lack of sleep, bad weather would be contributory causes.
It may very well be that the DIRECT cause of the failure is / was debris from machining that wasn't properly removed.
But I'm pretty sure there are many contributory causes. These could be defective cleaning procedures, inexperienced workers, bad design of the cleaning equipment, bad design of the engine block that makes thorough cleaning impossible, or a weakness of the bearing design itself.
I think the fact that the engines keep failing (albeit at a slower rate) is a clear indication of a design / engineering defect. Procedures and training have surely been addressed - I can't believe that Toyota wouldn't resolve these issues pretty fast. But the evidence so far points to a more fundamental design issue, which may or may not be resolved in future iterations of the engine. Many Toyota engines suffered from chronic problems that were never fully corrected in spite of dragging on for years: a good example is sludge problems with 1997-2002 engines.

 

All bow to the always accurate and never questioned social media. Hallowed be thy name

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/zE7k9ytqElA?si=5nkzUSEinJjlgBSX

 

Someone found the Jumanji board.

 

Seems fairly compelling evidence that something is amiss.

 

Duramax?

 

At this point… whether it is a design flaw or a manufacturing “process” issue… Toyota hasn’t been able to fix it…. since 2017… in two separate factories…. after a billion dollar recall. I think we can all agree that the sooner an “unnamed individual” tears in to another motor to hunt down changes the better!

 

Oof.

 

Yes! Sounds pretty smooth

 

There might not be a practical solution, outside of totally redesigning it, and therefore letting the cat out of the bag, that the design was inherently flawed. So the smart move may very well be might them using "machining debris" as a red herring and nursing this whole situation along until Gen 4 releases with a total redesign for the motor (or an entirely new motor comes out).

 

Well I called a few other local dealers. They both told me I should get an engine ordered and schedule it. In fact they couldn’t believe the other dealer told me that. The 1st one, Interstate Toyota told me they are doing 2-3 a week with 1 Master Mechanic and that’s all he’s doing. If I ordered today, they would place the engine order late January and I would get the work done late February early March. The 2nd, Corwin Toyota, ended up putting a mechanic on the phone and he told me that it wasn’t if, it was when, and to get it done. He told me they expected to do 35-45 trucks when it was all said and done. So I am glad I called around. More to think about.

 

Yeah but that dude probably doesn't even own a 3rd gen so what does he know? Pffft...

 

See if Corwin will tell you how many trucks they sold that are in the recall. If they expect to do 35 - 45 that would give us another data point on guesstimating percentage of trucks that are failing.

 

That's interesting - isn't more torque at lower rpms tougher on bearings? So if there is debris in the feedlines or the bearing/oiling design is borderline to start with, that would make things even worse?

 

The LX 600 (Type '21) has had it's peak torque at 2,000 RPM since it was introduced. The TRD Performance Package for the Tundra/Sequoia is essentially the LX 600 tune.

Pg. 4
https://lexus-cms-media.s3.us-east-...0/2022-Lexus-LX-Specification-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

 

If that guy didn't have bad luck, he probably wouldn't have any luck.

The last gen Tundra was basically unavailable when I wanted one in Dec 21. So I got a F150. 40k later I'm happy. Except for the squeaks from interior trim that I've never experienced in hundreds of thousands of miles of Toyota ownership. Doesn't mean I'm converted. Just means for now, I'm happy. I typically hold on to vehicles for 75k but have been known to go to 260k miles.

 

That's hilarious.....I thought the same thing hahahaha

 

1500ish dealers. 100,000 to be replaced. Call it 60 or so per dealer to cover the recall.

 

my local dealer had 4 waiting to be done, engine were being ordered, i am part of the recall, 11/2022.

Back in Nov when i took in for service, the service writer was like good thing your not one of those guys

My dealer serves a town of 200k, we have another few yota dealers within 20+ miles of us as well

I was a certified mercedes tech, i dont believe a word ppl say from sales or service lolol - shit is a business and ppl are out to make $

 

I decided to get it going. Put my name on the waiting list. Engine will be ordered the week of Jan 20th. Will be swapped in late February most likely. Going with Stapp Interstate. I figure if they told me the truth, then the guy will have 30 some swaps under his belt so the process should be dialed in.

 

My engine seized up going 70mph on the highway due to the recall defect at 16,851 miles on October 18th, and I got it back 70+ days later, just before the end of 2024, with the long block replacement. Toyota Corporate just returned my call from last week and they made it clear any other recompensation is off the table. It's just an engine replacement and a rental car. Zero extended warranty- they won't even give me a connected services subscription so I can use the features built into the vehicle I paid for, like Remote Connect, to remote start from my phone.
I'd argue that the decreased value is only one small part of the financial damages. For months of lost use, I've still been paying property tax and insurance, increased fuel and operational costs, lost time and income on business opportunities, and faced delayed replacement since I couldn't acquire a fully functional vehicle until the repair was done. Not to mention the distress and inconvenience. The Toyota dealership I bought it from at full MSRP 2 years ago first offered $40K, got an offer from Carvana for $42K because I lied and said the truck had no issues.
The truck was $62,000 when I bought it. Now, two years and 16,850 miles later, it’s worth $42,000—a whopping $20,000 drop—over $1 per mile. And let’s not pretend that’s all 'normal depreciation' or 'market swings' because this has proven to be a serious defect on Gen 3's desirability, as so many posts in this thread evidence. A catastrophic engine failure doesn’t exactly boost resale value. Toyota claims their Tundras retain 55% of their MSRP after 48 months from the LEV they use for leases. That means my $62,000 truck should theoretically still be worth about $34,000 after four years. Yet here we are, barely two years in, and it’s already lost over $20,000 in value. At this rate, it’ll be worth pennies on the dollar long before we hit 48 months. If Toyota’s LEV rates are accurate, something is clearly off—and I’d say it starts with this engine issue.
My customer experience with Toyota corporate has been terrible through this, their online ticket system doesn't work, it's designed to have a FAKE submit button icon and their phone service is just long waits to be told they don't have any answers and won't do anything for you. I was so fed up at one point I submitted an NCDS repurchase claim before I found out that it's just rigged arbitration to distract you from the actual legal system. I'm suspicious that if I'd gone through this for any reason but the recall, Toyota might have done something for me, but since there are 100,000 others they're proactively doing before they cause months of loss of use and distress, they can't set a precedent. As an example of the recall burden on the actually affected by the bad engines, I was going to get a better loaner under the Toyota Transportation Assistance Policy(TTAP) until they determined, as part of following 24TA07 to the letter, I was limited to $60 a day. Tundras are usually the highest banded in the TTAP when loss of use occurs.
I saw someone asking what Carfax says about people in my case. I'm not sure, but if anyone wants my VIN or can tell me how to check for free, I'll help. And, if anyone out there actually manages to get a vehicle service agreement, please let me know how.

 

If Toyota is sticking with debris being the cause, does the Hybrid really different in any fundamental way, where it wouldn't be subject to the same cause of failure? As a hybrid owner (shoot me for admitting to that), just cannot reasonably arrive at a conclusion where the battery on this thing will provide sufficient power to keep it from causing a huge accident should it grenade at an inopportune geography.

Quoting from a comment included in an article about a class action lawsuit:
"Toyota says hybrids aren't included in the Tundra engine recall because the engines are not the same."

Did the hybrids get processed in such a different fashion, where the allegation of debris, wouldn't have been possible (honest question)? Not to imagine things, but several times before even getting visibility into this, I thought my rig has an obnoxious knock at idle. After checking oil, I just attributed to a noisy fan design......

 

@Jayhawkaholic
Cut your loses and dump it now while you can get $42k for it? Hell, I have a 2024 I've only driven for ONE year and it's a lifted, hybrid, Limited....best I could get out of Carvana was $53k.

Also, what does it look like under the hood now? Is the wiring harness a mess? Any clips broken or things not back where they should be?