Do you ever meet LBJ non-believers?

I’m a non-believer fellas. Over 6 years on Moog LBJ on my desert truck with zero issues. LBJ are still tight today. I do a nut, bolt, and torque check before and after desert trip (LBJ checks are part of that list) and a full prep before every desert season. While my truck may not collect a ton of miles, those that it does are hard as hell.

My truck is full long travel, full cage, well prepped, and my shocks are well valved. Maybe that has something to do with it or maybe I’m destined for failure. I live like Austin Powers.

 

Pretty sure @KNABORES was in same boat, same brand. And his showed no signs of imminent fail until they had no load (like, taken off), then he found major play, like, “fuck I’m shocked those didn’t fail” level of play.

Seems (based on the massive federal recall Moog had to do on LBJ for our truck) Moog contracts with different factories to make their parts, they don’t manufacture anything for our trucks themselves anymore. So you’re at the mercy of batch quality and which mainland china factory knocked them out. The one constant seems to be, whoever they’re using lately, ever since the massive recall, they’re using nylon internals where Toyota/OEM uses brass/metal. Brass bushings, metal springs. Maybe you got lucky and got a pre-recall batch made at a factory that was also using metal internals vs. nylon?

 

I see non believers on the Facebook groups everyday.

LBJ will total these precious 1st Gens.

My OEM LBJ’s have 105k on them in 4 years. They are very loose and easy to move around. They don’t show any signs of clunking, but are very loose. When my Solo Motorsports LCA’s come in I’m swapping some new OEM’s in.

 

SHUUUUN CHARLEY SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN

 

Been there. Ignorance is bliss, till your truck crashes down onto its own fender and front door sheet metal and tears your front end bits apart with it. $100 part causing $3-4000 in damage. My moogs felt fine on the truck. When removed to replace the passenger side barely stayed in the socket it had so much play and knocked around. That video where the guy cuts the joint apart says it all. Aftermarket LBJs are designed like traditional ones are, and usually use nylon cups. Toyota OEM are a different animal. All metal construction with a spring tension cup.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQWwTB8w2Hk

 

As I mentioned, I prep my truck often. I don’t go years driving it without a care and am far from ignorant. I bet I spend as much time prepping my truck as I do driving it. My full prep includes removal of all suspension, new nuts and bolts throughout, and much more done every year.

Six years driving the truck harder than most, on 35” tires and being significantly heavier than stock, tells me maybe I got a lucky pair of Moog or maybe my prep pays off or maybe the LBJ problem lies with the stock suspension geometry. FWIW, when I build a new front end it will have upper and lower uniballs, but that’s common for long travel anyways.

In summary - everyone should long travel their truck.

 

What happens when Toyota discontinues their LBJs? Are we all screwed? Time to roll it off the cliff?

 

We make a big F'n deal about it. Tell the news.

 

Cost benefit analysis.

 

solid axle swap

 

Not a cheap solution. Might as well change to long travel while I’m at it.

 

From what? A T100?

 

I'm a landscaper....I speak English.

Good question...probably not a bad idea to buy a couple extra sets for "later."

 

I dunno. There’s so little documentation about 1st gen SAS. Sure, there are a few SAS builds online that have tall lifts and huge tires. But i’m more interested in a very mild lift (2~3”) and maybe a 32” tire. It’s MUCH easier to package custom suspension and steering in a tall lift. I would think it could all be done for $4k in one’s own shop?

I assume a low pinion D44 front axle (i dunno if a D44 HP would fit with just a mild lift). Some sort of steering box (Toyota IFS?). Crossover steering. Leaf springs for simplicity and durability, or expensive go fast long travel coilovers for slowver landing.

 

i trust oem, and thats what Ive been running on my 4runner. no paperwork on this tundra but all feels tight. Will replace hopefully soon for peace of mind. But aside from that , if you find the right on line dealer you can often get OEM for near same price as quality aftermarket. like 555 brand,

but then again rock auto sells moogs for like 39 bucks

I also find it interesting that the lower ball joint is the same as for my 2000 4runner, which weighs a lot less, interesting to me that toyota used them on both rigs....over built for one or underbuilt for other ?

 

Around here you need to be bilingual to speak to the crew.

 

Is the 555 brand a viable alternative? Has anyone destructively taken them apart to see if the joint is all metal and not plastic like Moog?

 

I always thought Sankei 555 was OEM equivalent, but someone on here recently made a claim they saw one opened up and it used nylon retainers or seats (where Toyota uses a steel spring to cup the ball-end of the spindle).

Don't get me wrong, if I have a choice between a steel bushing and a nylon seat over a nylon bushing with a nylon seat, I'll go with the partial-metal part over the full-nylon part any day. but I prefer metal internals.

I did pass over a post on one of the FB groups today where someone had their non-OEM LBJ pointed out and the OP on the post was something to the effect of, like, "Yeah well I saw a video on YouTube that showed a Toyota LBJ being pulled apart and it had plastic too". No proof given, though.

 

I wouldn't hire such crew.

 

I often do. They always ask for less money, and almost always do better work.

 

This linked video by 208Tyler shows cut away cross sections of Sankei 555 and OEM LBJs. Starts at about 8:20 of the video:

https://youtu.be/TCzcKfUyfcM?si=GUXcfxfq7rIuwX7G

 

Anybody have review for lower uniball set-up?

 

I haven’t heard of anyone on here complain but that’s typically the long travel suspension crowd or group due to the cost.

 

Regardless, thats one sweet truck you have there.
Link to build?

 

Welp, that will make @The Black Mamba feel better!

 

Thanks. The build thread is in progress, hopefully I’ll get it posted here next week.

 

Indeed. I should have taken a side by side shot when I had the old ones out, but I don't regret changing them. OEM or DIE.

 

I have mine out now, might take you guys some pics before I toss them into the steel pile. (I end up with a fair amount of steel with what I do....all that goes to the junk yard for what little cents on the pound it's worth).

 

I had no idea about the LBJ's until I joined this forum a little over a year ago with just over 300,000 miles on the odometer. I guess I was lucky. Mine did not have any obvious play

but now that I know I've warned 2 1st Gen owners and friends that are somewhere around 250,000 miles. They just seemed to shrug it off with indifference

I'm still working on them. I need to text them pictures of failures. Maybe that will get their attention

they are both like me, however, and not off roaders. so in general I'm guessing ours are not treated as harshly and last longer Whatever the case, I will be replacing mine around 100,000 miles next time or if and when I have to replace control arms/bushings