Mystery Alignment and Rubbing Issues 2003 AC Tundra

Looking for some guidance, and potentially some info I can pass on to my mechanic.

My 2003 AC Tundra has a 1.5" spacers in the front and rear which I believe means everything can remain OEM and as far as I know the old owner left everything OEM with the exception of extended camber bolts.

The set of tires currently on it are Off Road Firestone tires at 255/75/17. 32" tall and 10" wide which based off the forum post are about 1/2" too tall which I think he tried to compensate with a smaller width, I'll be getting wheel spacers anyway to just make life easier.

When turning side to side on the passenger side only the wheel catches on the frame and can stop at full lockout almost unnoticeable rubbing on the driver's side, which likely comes down to an alignment problem I'm assuming. My plan is to also just get a set of touring tires, this truck goes to home depot and the office I don't need off road capabilities and spacers are not the choice for that anyway.

I asked my mechanic to look at it because I get occasional popping sounds when turning and I knew that the camber bolts were maxed and figured there might have been a possible mistake in the original alignment. The upper ball joints are trashed and one of the CV axles is dusted too and he thought the blocks were bigger. Presently the camber is maxed, but from what I've read the caster should be sacrificed for better camber results.

I'm not trying to have an off-road rig, but I like the overall look of the current setup/height, since I have to get a new CV axle shaft anyway, I was looking at getting extended travel ones to help compensate for the lift. I know there's the whole SPC/OME rabbit hole for 3"+ lifts, but I think at 1.5" I should be able to remain generally OEM and still get a proper alignment? In a previous vehicle I had no issues doing strut spacers and staying OEM.

Looking for overall input on alignment adjustments for the height and if there's any parts that should get replaced to handle the 1.5" spacers.

Thanks!

 

See "Suspension, wheel and tires..." section of this sticky thread.

Read thru, noting the alignment instructions toward the end of the section, let us know if that helps.

EDIT: My bigger concern would be an evaluation of the steering and ball joint condition, and whether there was clear evidence (A) the ball joints, especially lower, have ever been changed and (B) if they used only OEM LBJ, and fresh bolts during that change. These trucks have a major achilles heel in the lower ball joints specifically, and unfortunately, aftermarket lower ball joints cannot be trusted. There's an entire thread of poor suckers on here who failed to heed this warning and ended up with a front wheel stuffed up in their truck, and far more damage than it would've cost just to cough up the $120/side to buy an OEM lower ball joint. Non-Toyota mechanics don't seem to know about this glaring issue and will fuck you over.

I thought to come back and edit after you said "popping while turning". If you're 4WD - and btw, are you 4WD, that's kinda important info to share! - it could be a CV axle going out, clicking sounds while turning are a pretty classic symptom - but ... you don't want to see what LBJ failure looks like.

 

I don't mean to hijack This Thread and change the topic but @shifty` you should just have replies saved as templates to copy and paste for the most common questions made on here.

 

Okay I'll update the post with a few details, The CV axle on the left side where the popping is is being replaced and the UBJ are being replaced as well. The LBJs to my knowledge are OEM and holding fine but I regularly check them, I owned a 4runner previously and I'm well aware of that achilles heel and don't intend to join the club.

I'll review that thread again as I tried my best to do pretty thorough research before posting.

Also well aware that CV axle issue/UBJ replacement means of course there'd be alignment issues but this was an issue before they needed replacement and it's my mechanic's opinion that the blocks are causing premature wear on these parts, his initial thought was that they were beyond 2" and causing the damage but we re-measured each block to make sure.

 

And yes, 4x4 AC.

Based on what I'm gathering at this stage, I shouldn't need new/extended travel UCAs or anything special, but it would be recommended to get extended travel sway bar links?

I have written down the alignment specs for my mechanic to look at.

I'm at a bit of a decision point situation.

Option #1: keep the blocks (I know they're not a real lift, but I'm a pavement princess when it comes down to it), replace the worn parts (UBJ and CV), potentially buy and install eibach UCA which will resolve my alignment issue and keep the blocks. cost of the UCA is about $1k canadian.

Option #2: Remove the blocks/strut spacers, replace the worn parts, buy a new set of tires because the current rubber will not fit a stock setup whatsoever and just not bother with any sort of lift. I'll end up spending about the same money on Tires as I would for UCAs.

Where I'm struggling is that based on what I've read/watched etc with a 1.5" strut spacer, I shouldn't need upgraded UCAs to get a reasonable alignment, but I can't argue with what's in front of me either, that's where I'm stumped, and would be much better for the wallet to replace the worn parts and not have to spring an extra $1k on UCAs or to buy a whole set of tires and pay the extra cash to have the blocks taken out (obviously can do myself but might as well have the fella do it while it's off the ground and already taking some parts off.

 

First off, you should be able to align out the rub depending on the specs of your wheels. Did you tell us what wheels you are running yet and what width and backspace they’re running?

Second, what are “extended camber bolts” you speak of? I need to understand what you’re talking about. If you’re saying the previous owner replaced the cam bolts on the lower control arms, then you need to check if he went aftermakret, which normally have shitty plastic sleeves which crush, and will cause alignment probs.

You DO NOT need UCA for 1.5” lift.

I would recommend extended sway bar links for anything over 1”-1.5” but as long as you adjust the links up you may be able to get away with running OEM.

Some rub is normal once you crossover that 21.6-21.8” diameter mark it seems, from others experience on here. You really need to understand the people who are saying “no rub”. “No rub” to a lot of people means, “no major rubbing”, like, “I’m not ripping shit off when I turn”.

 

Just for clarity, is your spacer 1.5" thick (approx 3" of lift) or .75-1.0" (1.5-2" of actual lift)?

 

I'm running a set of OEM wheels I'm unsure of the backspacing they could be for a 4runner, the only measurement I was able to get on them was this symbol but I can't make it out enough, I was just going to get a set of wheel spacers for the easy solve.



The extended bolt I'm talking about is the one to the left. The seller spoke only french and I wasn't bilingual enough to get every single detail a thousand percent understood but he said he had to buy new ones to accomodate the lift.



View from the front - I do see there's still some room for adjustment, not much, possibly just a little slip over time.

Both tires have a negative camber - based on my 24" level and about 3/4" of gap at the top they're off by around 1.8 degrees. Mind you this is from parked tire so if we take off a 1/4" for the bottom of the tire swelling from the weight we'd be at 1.2 degrees off.



The rub is different for each side, driver's side is extremely mild to non existent which I would classify as 'no rub', at full lockout you can feel some sensation. Passenger side it fully locks against the frame due to the tread size of the tires from the back so if I'm getting out of a parking spot I can fully stop the truck by just turning the wheel fully to the right, no contact anywhere else.

Hope this provides enough context. Appreciate all your help!

 

The physical block is 1.5" which based off what you're saying, radically changes the context of the lift itself, I just assumed a 1.5" block would provide 1.5" of lift. And the blocks in question are on the leaf pack and tops of the strut.

 

I've done some more reading and understand now how blocks provide a greater lift due to the steering geometry, so this all is starting to make more sense.

I think the route that makes the most sense $$$ wise is to get smaller blocks to reduce the lift. Will cost about $220 CAD for 1" instead of 1.5" blocks (front and back) bringing it to a 2" lift overall from 3" - and that will allow me to continue using the same tires and overall OEM equipment and will likely correct a number of issues I've been having.

 

Show a pic of the wheels, I can get the info you need.

 

You will still need to fix the alignment.

The long bolt you speak of, if I’m understanding you correctly, is actually a steering rack bolt?

The cams on that thing (the disc looking thing with a bolt head on it and clock markings) look frozen as fuck, or at least like they haven’t been moved in ages, like it’s never been aligned recently, but maybe I’m wrong, I don’t deal with rust much where I am. Those are what I’m talking about, OEM units use a steel sleeve which can rust in place. Aftermarket units use a plastic sleeve that crushes and leaves you fucked. OEM costs a chunk but lasts a long ass time, multiple alignments, while aftermarket is cheap and may not even truly be viable for one alignment.

The alignment numbers and info you need is in that thread I linked in my 1st reply above. Alignment numbers courtesy of @assassin10000, he probably knows more about the subject than anyone on the 1st gen forum. Anything he says, take it as free expert advice, I can’t distinctly recall a time the dude wasn’t right.

 

Honestly it might be, I know all the parts of an outboard motor, trying desperately to keep up on vehicles haha, all I know is that he said he had to buy new bolts, which is likely because the OEM ones were seized and he replaced them, the cams look relatively new, and line up with likely being replaced in the last year, the whole truck is getting a thorough undercoating so they'll be fine going forward, but likely not seized. I would replace them with steel OEM if they end up being cheap garbo, it's a small cheap thing.

I've got the alignment numbers down I can only assume if they're living in that sticky post then they're gospel. I know the alignment will still need to be done, and would need to be done anyway with UBJs getting replaced, it's more that, can it be done with the current block setup? Based on what I've seen, seems unlikely as a 3" lift from a 1.5" spacer block would mean we're out of OEM spec across the board, bringing it down to a 1" block making a 2" lift will be a sweet spot for very little investment and I can set up something proper down the road. It would be good to know for sure because it's maybe an extra hour of work to swap the blocks while the UBJs are being done and then it's just one alignment process.

Here's a pic of the wheel.

 

Those are the OEM "5-spoke split" that typically come on Sequioa, our "1st gen cousin", it's rolling nearly the same chassis and everything else as the Double Cab 1st gen Tundra.

That wheel is 17 x 7½" wide with a +15mm offfset, i.e 5.0 on the backspace. Great option, and about as tucked-in as I'd feel comfortable with. Most of the offroad aftermarket options are 17 x 8½" with ~4.75" backspace or 17 x 9" with 4.5" backspace.

RE: The other stuff...

Yes, he probably replaced the cam bolts if he said they were frozen. You really want to have the shop look at them and make sure they're not aftermarket bolts and sleeves, and replace now before they cause you problems later.

Just because it's so incredibly fucking important, I'm going to warn you again about the lower ball joints. Never use anything except OEM for those. Always use fresh bolts. Proactively change them every 100k miles, DO NOT make the mistake of waiting for them to show signs of failure. If you don't know the last time they were changed, OR you know they were changed but have any twinkle of a doubt they didn't use OEM, swap with new OEM and fresh bolts. I can give you the part numbers you'll need.

You may as well buy OEM upper ball joints too, they're only like 40 USD, not too atrocious. They're hell to press out and in though.

The uppers and lowers can (and probably should) be done at the same time as the LBJ and UBJ, while you're in there and you've got it apart, you may as well. Just easier.

Also consider replacing your swaybar links with extended links. If you're planning to drop to a 1" spacer, fuck it, you may not need new ones. I can tell you, the rubber bushings on the aftermarket and the part quality is a bit shit. I personally like SuspensionMaxx's extended link product. Good USA-made stuff, not shitty Chinesium garbage like Moog, Federal Mogul, TRW, and other shitty aftermarket brands.

 

Okay that's about what I thought they were, I was going to get a 20mm wheel spacer which I think will push it out enough to avoid all rubbing and will push them out enough without having to worry about trimming anything.

RE:

Cam Bolts - I'll have them checked and swapped if they're no good cheap and easy.
LBJs - 100% We double checked them earlier this year and they were fine and everything looked good, there's a Toyota dealer nearby I could order them from. They're about $180 cad for bolts and whatnot each side. Is there a way to identify if they're OEM or not? I learned on my 4runner that aftermarket was shit because I had to replace them twice (no catastrophes) but the second time I went OEM.
UBJs - OEM here is $100, rockauto is 22 bucks for Dorman. Can go up to their rugged duty dorman for 40 bucks and they'll ship with the CVs I need to replace for cheap.

I believe the control arms were viewed as overall still in good condition if that's what you were referring to. Pretty much everything I get is from rockauto except LBJs because duh, usually try to get denso when available, and then whatever is the best brand available, but for control arms it looks like moog, acdelco, delphi and mevotech, nothing to get really stoked on.

 

Control arms and aftermarket et al, check here first: https://www.tundras.com/threads/1st-gen-parts-corner-of-shame-oem-minus-or-plus.122591/

There’s a lot of try-fail stuff in there others have already learned to avoid. UBJ isn’t under as much load as LBJ so maybe not as big of a concern. I’ve seen UBJ snap also but I’ve seen just as many knuckles pop their tops with the UBJ inside.

Don’t know how to tell you how to tell if LBJ are OEM or not. You could post pics. Obviously if it’s not using a castle nut, it’s not OEM. Sometimes castings will give it away. Some other design cues could also. But it could just be an OEM core that was rebuilt.

OEM CVs are pretty bulletproof. Any specific reason you’re swapping with aftermarket versus re-booting?

 

Boot is torn and the grease is gone, so makes more sense to spend 60 bucks on a replacement IMO. I could ask about rebooting, but he said it looked pretty dusted.

There's a degree of anything is possible, but more what is likely. I think UBJs are a bit safer overall, it's sticking to pavement so I feel like I'll be ok either way. Besides I'm a low KM driver and I go to the shop twice a year to get everything looked at just to verify everything is in working order.

 

Don’t undervalue the CV. Non-Toyota mechanic are always skeptical. The OEM CV Axles are fucking awesome. I’d repack and relube with the OEM re-boot kit and move on.

 

Well the work is complete and the truck feels great. I didn't think I'd notice the slight drop from 3" to 2" but the ride is better and having a properly aligned no rub setup feels great.

Ended up doing the LBJs as well, when they were in the process of replacing other parts the lower control arm dropped and the lowerball joint shook so we replaced them with OEM LBJs so I've got all the peace of mind in the world.

Now I'm getting the rockers redone in a month and this rig will serve me well for many many years.

 

Glad your truck feels better! Now get some rust proofing on that frame stat, especially if the truck will see salt. I'm a big fan of oil-based products, like Fluid Film or Blaster Surface Shield.