Brother's 2023 Tundra won't start, dealer clueless (SOLVED)

And how could you tow it? There's no tow hooks, LOL!

 

The recharging voltage should run around 14.5 often a little more during the recharging cycle. It shouldn't vary more than say half a volt at any time. As charge level increases, it will drop to 12.5 gradually..... Pickup one of those 12v power outlet USB/Voltmeters off Amazon or similar and monitor. The truck sat on the lot. Weak battery for a bit but he's had it and been using it for a while.

I wonder about possible rodent damage to the wiring and or a short. Something isn't getting the signal it needs....Dealer doesn't have the ability to track it down.

Question: Is there any kind of aftermarket or dealer added anti theft system fitted to the car or one of those lender mandated GPS devices? Drop the panels under the steering wheel.

 

Well, I paid close attention to my truck's digital voltmeter gauge today and mine does it too. Apparently the fluctuation is normal. With foot on gas it stabilizes lower on the gauge, assume somewhere near 12v. Take your foot off and coast and it jumps up a couple/few volts.

 

What should cold, resting battery voltage be after an overnight sit? Specifically asking 3rd gen Tundra owners with non hybrid motors only. I know the answer as it related to other/older vehicles. I'm trying to establish a baseline with people with these exact trucks and oem batteries.

 

At idle or with the engine off? When you the truck is started cold, the voltage goes to 14 V and goes down as you drive. The hybrid and non-hybrid have nearly identical characteristic. Battery operates at 12V usually unless charging is needed so the gauge moves up to 14 V when decelerating, braking, etc.

 

Engine off. Before starting, after an overnight sit, measured with a multimeter.

 

12ish volts but not less than 11.5 V

 

I'm looking for exact readings on a multimeter, not the dash gauge. There's a big difference between 12.1 and 12.5V, yet anything in that range could appear as "12 ish".

 

I got 12.2 right at the battery about a month ago. Truck sat overnight and ambient temp was 40 degrees F.

 

Did you try disconnecting the battery and reconnecting? My dash volt gauge bounced wildly after my battery got wet. It wasn’t a slow fluctuation with idle, it bounced like crazy at all times. I removed both terminals, sanded the posts, applied terminal grease and the bouncing needle went away.

 

If it doesn't start again I would have it towed to the dealer or a different dealer if possible and tell them not to give the truck back until the problem is fixed or plan on giving you a different new truck. After what these things cost there should not be any issues such as this and their only excuse is we can't find the problem. It is definitely some kind of electrical issue with it being so sporadic for you. I hope that you get this issue resolved.

 

I have a 21 so I am guessing you don't want a reading from it? I have not started it today. I can measure the 08 too.....

 

My many years of experience has been about 12.6 if the battery is good as new.

 

Should be around 12.5v ... The gravity of the acid usually dictates volts when cold... 1250-1260 gravity is ideal and that would read 12.5-12.6v... Voltage usually reads what the acid gravity is... Unless there is a bad cell.. then obviously voltage would read lower... Each cell is 2 volts ..

 

Battery is consistently holding at 12.3v cold and after sitting a few days now. I don't think that's the problem. New theory is key fob is losing connectivity. Will start a new thread about that.

 

Did you check starting in neutral? Or check the shifter?

 

The voltmeter fluctuations are something that is perfectly normal and most likely not noticed until issues popped up, now he's paying more attention to it. The alternator and charging system voltage and charge rates are controlled by the engine control module while it monitors battery overall state of charge percentage. The battery chemistry is not conventional flooded rather enhanced flooded battery technology which uses uses slightly different charge methods also operates at a lower average state of charge percentage than conventional flooded battery, hense suited best for auto stop systems.

 

Failure to start again today. On tow truck back to different dealer. What a joke.

 

OK.. Lets hope we can get to the bottom of this ...

 

Well the truck arrived at the dealer, and started right up. Ugggghhhhh!

They have been advised to check the neutral safety switch. Stay tuned.

 

Sounds like the typical "Can't reproduce the problem, come get your truck" response is coming.

Hope I'm wrong, but I have about as much faith in dealerships as I do with our current POTUS.

 

Yep. And true to form, as soon as the tow truck arrived at the dealer, it fires right up and started normally. Fortunately, this time he has extensive video of it not starting. They have supposedly elevated his case, whatever that means.

 

Well, we finally have an answer.. So as you see above the truck went back a second time after it wouldn't start, and it fired right up at the dealer like normal. Toyota Customer Care wanted him to take it back to the same dealer that originally looked at it and wasn't helpful. So while I mistakenly said he went to a different dealer, he did not, per Toyota's directive. Again, the dealership said, there's nothing wrong with your truck, come pick it up. You're crazy, this truck is fine. Yet he had video of the truck not starting and him doing all the normal steps to start it, including clear video of the dash NOT showing the key icon necessary for start up. They said the video was invalid and didn't prove anything because there was no footage of the actual key shown. COME ON. They were accusatorial. Insane! Like my brother, or any human being, enjoys dealing with new vehicle problems and makes sport of taking perfectly fine vehicle back to the dealership multiple times. As if he had nothing better to do. It was obvious they just wanted him to go away.

He essentially refused to take the truck back without further investigation. Toyota Customer Care got involved. This time they got their Field Specialist Team involved. Whatever that means. And these guys were able to produce a report of every single start attempt ever logged by the vehicle. Sure enough, there were multiple, dozens, of failed starts. And get this! Due to "Key signal interference. Electrical waves present." Apparently there are electrical waves present in the atmosphere of my brother's neighborhood that interrupt the key signal! Good lord. Can't make this up!

So this is problematic on two levels:

1: Why did it take multiple attempts at the dealership and such assertive insistence to get the report that ultimately found the problem? If this report was available all along, why wasn't it run in the first place, saving everyone time and frustration? Because it costs Toyota or the local dealer additional service time/money and they want to see if you'll just give up easily and go away first? Or was the local dealer just unwilling to make the extra effort? Either way, a complaint is being filed.

and...

2. Now what? He can't own a truck that won't start in his own driveway/neighborhood. Is there a manual override? He held the fob up to the start button like a dead fob would require and that didn't work. Which goes to show that all this fancy tech is fine when it works, but we are out teching these things to the point of failure, without back up systems to use when the tech fails. He is still working with Toyota (National CS, not the dealer) for other options. It's apparently something they haven't dealt with before.

 

That’s one of the most ludicrous explanations for a no-start condition I’ve ever heard. Did they sweep the neighborhood with an RF scanner?

easy enough to test the hypothesis - wrap the fob in foil except the tip (yeah I went there) and see if it consistently starts touching the tip to the button (yeah I went there again)

something tells me the engineering team assigned to your problem isn’t familiar with Occam’s razor.

Again, did anyone check the battery and NSS?

 

Damn, that's gotta be frustrating. A quick search found this article that may be helpful.

https://www.mightyautoparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Tech-Tip-20630.pdf

Bottom line, it sounds like you need to find and eliminate the source of the radio frequency interference at your brother's house.

 

So essentially anyone with a Toyota that sets foot in a place where interference can occur it's f@cked? This sounds like a Toyota problem not a "you" problem.

 

Wow. That is a hard sell to me. Unreal

 

What if it's from a neighbor's house? Or city powerlines/utilities?

 

Interesting. So the FCC mandates that all consumer electronics receive all interference. Maybe there’s a signal overriding it near his house? Seems like a cop out to me but possible I suppose.

https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/tac/tacdocs/WhitePaperTACInterferenceLimitsv1.0.pdf

 

Yes battery was checked and test results shown, all good. NSS was supposedly checked. As for the "Key RF Signal Interference. RF Response not received (electrical waves present)." I'm quoting directly off the Vehicle Diagnostic Report from Toyota.