2021 Non-JBL Wiring Diagram

Didn’t realize I was signed into my personal account hahaha, Abt is where I got my Rd900/5, they are equal to Crutchfield imo just smaller.

 

That's really good to know, I was looking at Helix and Arc audio as a substitute for the AudioControl D-6.1200 because Audiocontrol has been WAY behind on backorders for what seems like forever but looking at that website it says they have them in stock! Might just order mine from there instead of crutchfield. I'm getting really ansty because I've been waiting since the beginning of January with no end in sight :/

 

I would definitely recommend them! If their site says they have it in stock I’m 99% sure they will. Shipping was super fast just like Crutchfield, everything was brand new etc. I’ve been looking at a Helix dsp/amp combo and they’re the only reputable place i could find them online.

 

Only part that hurts is I miss out on the rewards points for crutchfield (I'll be close to $200 once I'm done with my setup) but at this point I could care less lol.

 

I’m sure you’ll find something to spend it on lol, I’d be getting ansy too lol. Dean and Fernando answered my question, thanks for the heads up! Coaxials it will be! As for the Audiocontrol D6.1200 that things a beast! And it looks like Abt has the same price as Crutchfield, and even if they didn’t, i’m fairly certain they’d price match crutchfield.

 

Well I made the impulse decision to order it off of ABT last night but kept my crutchfield order just incase something went wrong or it was damaged and of course with just my luck crutchfield gets an order in today and charged my card again for the same amplifier

Always a hurt to look at a bank statement and see a purchase of $2000 in one day
Guess I have 2 D.6-1200 amps now incase anyone wants to buy one off of me XD

 

Oh no!!! And yeah that does hurt lol, but at least you'll have it soon and you'll be able to return one. After asking Dean and Fernando during the livestream last night, I realized that like you had posited, the tweeter surrounds are removable on the ES165K and ES165K2 (old model, new models ES165KE and ES165K2E), while the tweeter surrounds are not removable on ES165KX2 (new model with FRAK tweeter ES165KX2E). Old models from the manual that illustrate the differences in tweeter mounting options:




That being said, I also didn't realize that the KX models have a larger 1" + tweeter, whereas the non "X" sets have a 13/16" tweeter. After watching a couple of videos from Provo Beast on Youtube, in which he installed a pair of Image Dynamic ID65CS's components in the rear doors, as well as a pair of

$125 Alpine S-S65C 6-1/2" Component Speaker System with 2 woofers & 2 Speakers

Alpine S-S65C components in the rear doors, both of those tweeters fit/clip into the existing tweeter mount "tube" in the door card. The Image Dynamic tweeters have a mounting diameter of 1-7/8", while the Focal ES165K and ES165K2 tweeters have a mounting diameter of 1.575" so they should fit into the door card tweeter mount without issue, and may just need some CA glue to firmly secure them in place.

Which leads me to my next thought, I think I've settled on a Helix V series amp. In any case, down the line I'd like to get a pair of Focal 3KM midranges to install in my dash corners to have a 3 way active front. I could go with the Helix V Eight, run 3 way in the front and a pair of coaxials in the rear, or I could go with the Helix V Twelve, and go active 3 way in the front and active 2 way in the back. For the time being I need to make up my mind on the rear doors and stop waffling back and forth, and even though the 2 ways would fit in the rear without issue, I trust that Dean and Fernando are correct in that the tweeter being up so high near the driver and passenger detracts from the stage/imaging. It's definitely cooler in my book to have a fully active 10 channel system of 3 ways in the front and 2 ways in the rear (not including subs), but in this truck it might just not be a good option.

 

If the audiocontrol 6 channel wasn't $400 off, I 100% would have gone with a Helix V amp as well. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who wished they didn't buy a helix amp lol.


I know I've tried to sway your opinion on almost everything you've thought about installing, but one more thing I think you should think about is another midrange option that you might enjoy just as much as the Focal 3KM. And that's the Audiofrog GB25 (I'm a huge fanboy of Audiofrog if you couldn't tell)


For the same price you can get audiofrogs best 2.5" midrange which will fit much easier in the dash without cutting. It also plays lower and handles 100 watts of power vs focals 60.


You cannot go wrong with either midrange, and to be honest I'd probably go with focals too just to keep the brands matching, but in case you decide you don't want to tear up your dash then these are for you.
(I'm actually planning on upgrading my gs25s to these gbs just because of all the good things I've heard about them. I've read multiple times that out of all the speakers in audiofrogs gb lineup, the GB25s are the "flagship" speaker)


Here's the frequency chart for the GB25s:




Here's the frequency chart for the 3KMs:




Here's the frequency chart for your Frak tweeter just for crossover reference:




Since the Frak tweeters are so large and built for a 2 way system, you can cross them over pretty much where ever you'd like. So like I said, you really can't go wrong with either one!

 

And just for shits and giggles, check out the Audison Forza 1120 watts 8 channel DSP amp, it's about the same price as the Helix V Eight DSP but with 6 DSP rca outputs for a sub amp and if you wanted to add more channels for another rear amplifier or center channel (also has more power output at 90 watts per channel)

 

Your input has been valued tremendously! Once again in weighing options, I'm considering buying the ESP underseat storage with the 3 cubbies. For the time being I will probably use the RD900/5 to drive 4 speakers and my 8w7, and eventually I'd like to get a new sub amp. Looking at the specs, the compartments would be large enough to house any of the Helix V series amps. I know Helix is the gold standard for DSP's, but I was actually looking at the Audison Forza you suggested. I know Helix has the "best"/easiest to use GUI, but I'm fairly tech savvy and could probably figure out the GUI on any of the DSP amps. I was also looking at the Mosconi PICO lineup after Dean mentioned it on the livestream. Additionally, I was looking at the Mosconi 8|10 DSP which is the "new" generation and supports their new dsp software. On top of that, it is class AB. I pulled all of the basic stats from each of the aforementioned and compiled them into a table. Hard to find pricing on the Mosconi stuff.




In weighing options, obviously coaxial rears and an 8 channel amp would be the cheapest.

I'm still tempted to throw components in the rear just because they're on sale right now for less than the "new" coaxials. Obviously this would ramp up the cost in making a potentially 10 channel active system, but I could always do the rear components on one channel semi-active and use the passive crossovers.

Right now the options I'm weighing in no particular order (bearing in mind adding midranges down the line active in front):

Helix:
K2 coaxials + Helix V8 + Helix M One X ($600 + $1600 + $650 = $2850)
K2 coaxials + Helix V8 + Helix P One ($600 + $1600 + $1500 = $3700)
K2 components + Helix V12 + Helix M One X ($750 + $2200 + $650 = $3600)
K2 components + Helix V12 + Helix P One ($750 + $2200 + $1500 = $4450)

Mosconi:
K2 coaxials + Mosconi Pico 4|8 DSP + Mosconi Pico 6|8 DSP + Mosconi Pico 1 ($600 + $999 + $1399 + $899 = $3897)
K2 coaxials + Mosconi One 8|10 DSP + Mosconi One 1|1000 ($600 + $1900 + $899 = $3399)
K2 coaxials + Mosconi One 8|10 DSP + Mosconi Pico 1 ($600 + $1900 + $899 = $3399)
K2 components + Mosconi Pico 4|8 DSP + Mosconi Pico 6|8 DSP + Mosconi Pico 1 ($750 + $999 + $1399 + $899 = $4047)
K2 components + Mosconi One 8|10 DSP + Mosconi One 1|1000 ($750 + $1900 + $899 = $3549)

Audison:
K2 coaxials + Audison Forza 1120 + Audison Forza 1200 ($600 + $1699 + $799 = $3098)
K2 components + Audison Forza 1120 + Audison Forza 1200 ($750 + $1699 + $799 = $3248)


I think the enticing thing to me about going one of the Mosconi routes is that 1) the One line is AB 2) Could get 10 channels combined in the Pico line which is the max I'd ever need 3) Mosconi's are bridgeable. With the Mosconi Pico's I'd run the 4 6.5" drivers off the 4 channel, and the 4-6 tweeters/mids off of the 6 channel. Tuning would probably be more of a pain to match everything correctly.

As for the Helix route, better DSP software and more DSP control. Would have to go 8 channel or 12 channel, no 10 channel option. Tuning would be easier than Mosconi Pico as wouldn't be mixing amps and driver locations.

Haven't researched Audison a ton but I know they're right up there/considered equal to Audiotec Fischer/Gladen Mosconi.


On a side note, I know the GS-25's will drop into the dash corners no problem, but I was under the impression the GB-25's are too tall to fit without cutting into or bending the HVAC duct below? The GB-25's are only 1/8" thicker so I'm sure the fit could be finagled with minimal modification if any. I'm sure a heat gun on the HVAC vent and then pushed down with a pop can or something would do the trick, if any modification would need to be done at all. I will definitely be considering the Audiofrog's for the dash corners, but like you said to keep everything brand matched I'm leaning slightly more towards the Focal's right now, but no dash modification is huge and might outweigh that once I spend and arm and a leg in cost and the undoubted blood and sweat to install everything.

 

Ok this it's lots of information so I'm gonna try to break it down as much as possible...



First I want to start off with comparing some 12 channels to see if these will work best for you (in my opinion)


You didn't list it in your list but Audison has a 12 channel option as well. Here's some specs I'd like to highlight with this amplifier:

-12 channels: 60 watts each at 4 ohm, 90 watts at 2 ohm, 180 watts bridged at 4 ohm
(the important thing about this is the bridging power, this would be a perfect amount of power for a midbass but only if it's a 4 ohm driver which I don't believe the KX2E is sadly so lets just put that in the back of our minds for now)

-6 DSP preouts to be able to DSP 6 other channels if you so feel like it
(I'm pretty sure all of the audison DSP amplifiers have 6 dsp outputs which is great)

-9.44" long x 6.14" wide x 1.85" tall
(pretty small for the amount of amp you get out of that thing)

-$1,999 on abt.com



Helix V 12 amplifier simple specs for comparison:

-12 channels: 75 watts each at 4 ohm, 120 watts at 2 ohm, NOT bridgeable
(in your case this provides more power at 2 ohm which is good for you since your KX2Es are 2 ohm, but also leaves you with way more channels then you'll ever need)

-Only 2 DSP preouts
(works if all you need added is a sub amp)

-8.66" long x 8.66" wide x 1.73" tall

-$2,200 on abt.com


Based off your current situation with the speakers you've drawn interested in, the Helix V 12 is the obvious choice. That being said, I don't feel you need 12 channels UNLESS you were to bridge 4 for the midbass which unfortunately isn't possible since you are using 2 ohm speakers and the Audison is only 4 ohm stable bridged.

This brings us to comparing the 8 channel amplifiers. Here's some specs to compare audison, mosconi, and audiotec fischer in that order.


Audison Forza 1120W 8 channel D Class with 14 channel dsp

-8 channels: 90 watts @ 4 ohm, 140 watts @ 2 ohm, 280 watts bridged @ 4 ohm
(plenty of power)

-6 DSP preouts
Pros:
*can add a 4 channel to bi-amp a coaxial or component set in the rear
*also have enough channels to add sub amp
*also could add a center channel

Cons:
*If you aren't interested in the extra gimmicks, then it's just wasted potential/money

-9.44" long x 6.14" wide x 1.85" tall
(SAME DIMENSIONS AS THE 12 CHANNEL)

-$1,699 on abt.com


Mosconi Gladen Pico 8-channel amplifier with 12-channel dsp
(I'm gonna be honest I know little to no information on mosconi so this research is strictly what I read on abt.com, which seems to be mosconis "outdated" products)

-8 channels: 60 watts each at 3 ohms?
(not much info on the power output)

-4 dsp outputs
(2 volt rms which isn't great, but would be enough for simple coaxials in the rear and a sub amp)

-$1,299 on abt.com


Audiotec Fischer Helix V EIGHT DSP

-8 channels: 75 watts @ 4 ohm, 120 watts @ 2 ohm, also states "Max power per channel: Up to 160 watts rms @ 2 ohm"
(not sure where the extra 40 watts comes from, but again this is more than enough power for what you'd be installing)

-2 dsp outputs
Pros:
*use 7/8 channels for rear fill
*2 outputs for sub amp

Cons:
*lose bi-ampability for rear speakers
*no center channel added on in the future (if you ever wanted to)

-8.66" long x 7.09" wide x 1.73" tall
(slightly thinner than 12 channel)

-$1,600 on abt.com



Of course, Mosconi gets an unfair advantage in this comparison just because of the lack of research on my part. But let's be honest, it's most likely gonna be between Audiotec Fischer or Audison.

To summarize the info, for $100 more you get 4 more dsp output channels and also 20 watts more per channel from the amp itself with the Audison. The audison is slightly longer, but both pretty comparable in terms of size. Helix might be "easier" to tune with the dsp, but both are likely to take an equal amount of time to install/tune. Can't go wrong with either amplifier.


HONORABLE MENTION

Audiotec Fischer Helix P SIX DSP ULTIMATE

-6 channels: 120 watts at 4 ohm for all 6 channels, or 230 watts at 2 ohm for only 4/6 channels
(crazy power! comparable to the Audiocontrol D.6-1200 but with Helix quality!)

-4 dsp outputs
(gives you the same options as before with the 8 channel, only downside is you'd have to buy a 2 channel for the rear speakers and a sub amp)

-10.24" long x 7.48" wide x 1.94" tall
(largest amp on the list)

-$2,000 on abt.com




Now that I got this out of my system, I want to go over sub amps because I see you might be spending unnecessary money.


Now yes you could go with a Helix, Mosconi, or Audison mono amp but I feel that's kind of pointless. Since every amplifier you could chose on this list has some form of dsp output, there'd be no need to buy one of these extremely high quality mono amps. If you ask me, it more depends on the subs rather than the amp in terms of the bass you might be looking for (since you aren't making a huge subwoofer enclosure with dual 15s to rattle the whole neighborhood). This is somewhere you could "save money" on a still banging system.

Depending on the amount of power you might need, you could stick with the JL mono amp or go with another brand. Lots of options like rockford(which are extremely small), kenwood, kicker(also extremely small), alpine, etc if you wanna save some money and still get great bass.

Just to put into perspective, for the price of a Helix P ONE, I could buy TWO Audiocontrol LC-1.1500s which outputs more power @ 2 ohm (and I thought my LC-1.1500 was expensive!)

The other brands I mentioned can get even cheaper for the same amount of power (which I really doubt you'd ever need for a single shallow behind the rear seat if that's what you still plan to do)



Another topic I want to touch on is the AB vs D amplifiers. Now yes, no doubt the AB will sound "better" than a D amp. But unless you plan on doing a digital output of some sort into the amplifier I don't think you'd notice a difference. And the D class amps on the list are such high quality amps that again I don't think you'd ever be able to tell a difference by ear, especially if you've never heard it. It might be enticing to try to go with an AB, but I wouldn't let it make-or-break a decision on an amplifier.



Last thing I want to discuss is the Audiofrog GB25s. Based off of another thread, they fit right in with a simple adapter that you could easily make by cutting out a roundish shape of plastic with tin snips. Here's the link to a full Audiofrog GB 3 way installed in a tundra just like yours!

https://www.tundras.com/threads/201...hd-amps-and-jl-stealthbox.72428/#post-1859982

Only thing that he didn't mention that I'm a little concerned about is the speaker hitting the actually dash panel on top of the speaker. The GBs move quite a bit, and if he spaced up the speaker a 1/4" like it looks like he did it might be close. But he never said he had any issues so I'd like to assume it didn't.

Also another thing I'd like to point out (sorry for making this so long) is the speaker adapters he used for his GB60s. He bought them off of ta co tunes and I can say with personal experience they are extremely overbuilt. I ordered some myself for when I order and install my GB60s and wow are they thick!(>1.5") Highly recommend them for your KX2E woofers.


That is all, hope this helps

 

Based on your info, and looking further into the Audison Forza amps, it seems like they are fairly comparable to the Helix V series MK II's. The Forza line is relatively new, seems to be roughly ~1 year old. I chatted with ABT yesterday and they confirmed that while they don't list the full gamut of Helix, Audison, or Mosconi, they can special order the full line of any of these brands with the catch that any special order items they don't normally stock are non-returnable and non-exchangeable. I asked if they had price sheets for each brand or if that was private info and they stopped responding lol, which I guess answers that. The Helix MK II's employ the DSP PC Tool 5 with Tune EQ, whereas the Audison employs their new developed in house Bit Drive software. Both software's appear extremely user friendly, as opposed to past complaints I've read about both Audison and Mosconi having lacking software.

In looking at the 8 channel amps, it seems like Audison has the edge in all categories, including power, outputs, freq response, sampling rate etc. But the one category it lacks honestly might be the make or break factor. I read an anecdotal comment from someone that the Audison's don't like the cold. They said their amp went kaput in winter. Obviously there's no way to tell how truthful that is, or if the cold is what killed the amp vs improper install. In scrolling through the specs, I noticed the Audison Forza M8.14 has an ambient operating temperature of 0*C to 55*C (32*F-131*F in freedom units), whereas the Helix V series' all have an operating temp range of -40* C - 70*C (-40* F - 158* F). I live in the far north where average winter temps are well below freezing and often well below 0* F. I don't know how much those temperature ranges matter, but it's wild to me that the while the Audison clears the Helix in nearly all categories, the bottom temp number is so much higher than the Helix's. That being said, I'm always super cautious in winter time to let my cabin warm up and not turn anything up before it's had a chance to warm up. I've had foolish friends crank their systems in the dead of winter and crack subwoofer cones. I've owned and operated a variety of amp brands in the past, including JL, Kenwood, Pioneer, Sony, and JBL, and I've never had any issues with the cold. My biggest fear would be spending $1500+ on an amp only for the cold to freeze-fry it. I know overheating is the main concern but extreme cold can be hard on electronics too. This is partially what steered me towards the K2 line of speakers as opposed to Flax.

As for a sub amp, I agree subs will make more of a difference when compared to an amp that's being DSP'd. I think the plan will be to eventually install a pair of shallow mount 10" TW3's behind the rear seats using either one of the boxes you suggested, building my own box (strong likelihood as I thoroughly enjoy the process), or buying the JL stealthbox (price tag is big oof, $900 for a pair of 10TW3's + $100 in MDF, bedliner, etc. vs $1700 for the stealthbox, e.g. $700 for the JL stealthbox). Only reason I would consider one of the aforementioned amps is simply for brand matching.

The Mosconi One line is the only AB I found that seemed promising, but ultimately their subpar DSP software would probably steer me away from them. The Mosconi Pico line interested me due to their super small footprint, and the ability to have a separate amps running woofers and mids/tweeters. The Pico 4 has similar power to the Audison and Helix amps, while the Pico 6 loses some power with the addition of 2 channels. That being said, the 6 channel has 4x50 and 2x90 which would be perfect for 4 tweeters and 2 midranges. The Pico 4 does 90x4@4ohms and 115x4@2ohms, again perfect for my potential woofers. Biggest drawback is the additional wiring and headache of tuning multiple amps which steers me away from them.

All totaled I will probably go for a Helix due to the amount of support and knowledge base surrounding them, but I am still damn tempted to go the Audison route due to the better specs pretty much across the board.

As for the GB-25's, that's great news! As for top clearance, I know Five Star used flush cutters and a dremel to remove the underside of those grills to make sure the Focal midranges wouldn't hit the grill. They also bottom mounted the Focal's to give extra clearance on the top side, but in the case of the GB25's since they are 41mm deep vs 33mm Focal Flax, that might drop them too low and hit the HVAC vent, which again, could always heat and smoosh down some. I also saw someone on here who cut the vent and glued in a cupped shape to increase the depth but I'd probably just go the easier heat and bend route. Metra makes plastic brackets for the dash corners, part number 82-4201 Metra 82-4201 Tweeter Mounting Brackets Install new tweeters in the factory 2-1/2" tweeter locations in select vehicles at Crutchfield, but it looks like the GB-25 screw holes would probably be a little wider than these and you wouldn't get enough bite. Obviously you could get some thin HDPE and trace the factory tweeter brackets to fab your own that would be slightly wider like 5 Star did.

I'm sure you've seen it before but this is the underseat storage I was looking at: ESP Truck CrewMax Plastic Rear Under Seat Storage | '14 - '21 Tundra – Trail Grid Pro

I was initially not wanting to cut the carpet but the utility of having my amps under rear seats, combined with having an extra cubby for ratchet straps seems like it would be super useful, and I'm annoyed that 1) the rear seats don't fold down and 2) they stuck a huge block of foam under the seats for no reason other than soundproofing that I can think of. I'm still on the fence about this though and am definitely considering still doing an amp rack behind the rear seats so that everything is ostensibly theft proof. The back wall panel would be perfect for installing some rivnuts into, again it just comes down to the height of a potential sub box and how much room is left above it for amps. Looking at pictures of the stealthbox, it appears to be maybe 14" tall or so. I just went out and measured as best I could and to the top of the rear wall panel seems to be about 24", leaving 10-12" to work with. Removing the MLV sheet draped in the back affords some extra depth between the rear panel and the seats and I think there would be enough clearance all around to do an amp rack above a stealthbox height box. Something like the Rhino or Fox Acoustics boxes you linked look like they'd be too tall. The beauty of building my own box is that I could probably mimic the dimensions of the JL box and get away with an amp rack above. Also in going back to look at pictures from Westminster Speed and Sound I'm still perplexed by their install of amps under the rear seats with no visible cutouts etc. for depth.

 

Well I dun it now...I let the lure of the deal get the better of me. I couldn't pass up the opportunity and even though I know everyone says components in the rear are unnecessary, I figured components would give me different options for mounting the tweeters, as well as more control via DSP. I pulled the trigger and ordered the 3rd gen/clearance Focal ES165K2's. They are on sale at Crutchfield for $750, as opposed to $600 for the 2-way coaxials that are 4 ohm. The ES165K2 woofers are 2 ohms and handle 100w. Tweeters are 13/16" TKM. After looking over the technical drawings for the various lines, and realizing the other day that while the ES165KX2 tweeter trims are not removable and being that they are over 1" they would not fit, the regular non "X" tweeters are smaller (13/16") and should have no problem fitting into the factory tweeter location in the rear doors. I figured worst case scenario I can either 1) turn them way down so as to not draw the soundstage back too far or 2) surface mount them down lower if I absolutely hate them up high, but going with components, although $150 more expensive, will give me more options to play around with and more tuning control. I had JL C2 components in the front of my super cab f-150, with coaxials in the rear as the rear half doors in the supercab f-150's do not have a factory tweeter location. I have however had another truck with 4 full size doors and had components all around, as well as a full size sedan with components all around, and in both of those vehicles I didn't notice much of a difference when compared to my F-150 with the component front/coaxial rear. I know most people are focused on SQ and building a stage/imaging, but when thinking about my previous installs I think my personal preference is more towards a "full" sound in the cabin, as opposed to a front stage. In any case, they should be here in a couple days and I'll pull one of the door panels to make sure the tweeters fit. If they do, I'll then order some TT brackets for the rears along with some sound deadening and get rolling on the install. Being that I'm relatively tapped out on budget for the moment, I'm planning to run everything off my rd900/5 for the time being. It puts out 100w @ 2 ohms, and while I realize it's not ideal and I won't be able to bi-amp, it will undoubtedly sound better than the stock system. I'm getting antsy as well lol and I've got a brand new head unit, and now 2 sets of focals that will be gathering dust. I'll probably get started on the sail panels and getting the Frak tweeters mounted in those this weekend, along with maybe pulling power wire. Once the budget is replenished I'll decide on an amp/DSP. At this rate I'll probably go with a 12 ch, or an 8 ch to start and later on an additional 4 when I add in the midranges. I like the idea of one unit/a 12ch amp though.

 

I too live in the naturally cold midwest but I ALWAYS let my truck warm up with the remote start before I even think about going anywhere. I despise the people that just start it up and take off with no care in the world to the drive train warming up. Some say it's pointless to let these modern vehicles warm up, but the way I see it is if it does do anything it's only going to do good. That being said, as long as there's good ventilation for the amps I don't think you'd have a problem even being way up north. The main problem I've read with crazy hot/cold temps is condensation building up in the amplifier, whether it be from putting the heat on full blast on a cold amp or blasting a/c onto an overly hot amp. Either way, I feel it's going to affect every amplifier no matter the brand so it's just something to keep in mind when pushing any piece of equipment in extreme temps.

One thing I want to mention is that the GB25s are kind of a tall but skinny midrange, while the focal flax are super wide and beefy which is why they had to trim the dash some. If you've pulled the plastic panel on top of the dash speaker location you'd have seen that the vent kind of ends halfway under the speaker and then just drops into a large cavity of space. Even though the GB25s are taller than the flax, I still believe they'd fit no problem. Perhaps I'll upgrade my GS25s to them before you decide to add one...

 

Congrats on the buy! Coaxials or not, it's gonna sound great! Just finished installing the D-6.1200 last night and man do those GB10 tweeters sing! The GS25s sound great but now I'm super excited to compare them with the GBs since I've heard the upgrade between the GS25s and GB25s is much greater than any of the other speakers. Once I get my refund for the second D-6.1200 I'll probably end up ordering them lol. Never gonna be done with the audio in this thing XD

Some pics

(can catch a glimpse of that fox acoustics box in the back )




I definitely recommend wiring everything to the board before you install it. Makes zip tying and wire management so much easier.

The tweeters look fantastic! The silver trim matches the interior perfectly!




Unfortunately, woke up one morning victim to some teenage pranksters... Of course all of the ring cameras happened to die all at the same time...


(can see the circle spots above where it was egged before )

 

Very nice! Cable management and wiring looks on point. Those tweeters do look super nice in the sail panels! I was measuring the JBL sail panels last night again and I think I'm going to end up just using the flat non-JBL ones. My Frak tweeters have a cutout diameter of 2", and the JBL sail panels have a "flat" surface of 2" before the tweeter cup angle starts. They would probably fit I'm mainly just concerned about how well they'd seal around that edge since it's not perfectly flat all the way around. I've already paid for em though so I might just give em a go and see if I can make em work. As for the flat fail panels, I haven't pulled mine off, but judging from the countless installs I've seen with them I'm assuming there are no clearance issues behind the panel? My only concern was if the non-jbl sail panels were flush up against the door metal, but since everyone installs tweeters there, there must be plenty of room.

I fully agree with wiring everything up on the board before installing. In my last truck I had ordered the F-150 amp rack from Sounds Good Stereo (great shop btw, heard Five Star name drop them so they must be fairly well known in the car audio world). Wired everything up on the board and actually still have everything sitting on it in my basement lol. Makes installing a breeze and or/removing/swapping things in the future.

Where did you install the D6.1200? In any case, excellent work on a clean install! Glad to hear everything went smoothly with the install and your GB-10's really came alive with the new juice. Have you played with the audiocontrol DSP and tuning yet?

Eventually I will be in the market for a DSP to use in our CX-5 as well. It looks like the only options on Crutchfield for a mono amp with DSP are a Jensen and the Kicker Key, which I've heard good things about although I'd really prefer full DSP control. I think as time goes on, more manufacturers will start making mono-amps with DSP so that people have a one unit solution to adding a sub to a factory system, but the market must not be there yet. Currently I'm grabbing source from the trunk factory sub, feeding an Audiocontrol LCi, to an old Kenwood mono amp I had. I have the Dayton DSP which I could swap out for the Audiocontrol as the AccuBass feature doesn't do a great job at correcting the bass roll off imo, and I've read quite a bit about how the Dayton DSP's suck, or at least have horrendous QC. That'll be a whole nother project later this summer but I'm already looking at options lol.

 

The D-6.1200 is under the drivers seat and the LC-1.1500 is under the passengers seat.


After a couple of days of having it installed I have ran into some issues that aren't too bad and are probably easily fixable but I haven't found anyone that's experienced something quite like me.


Just for context, I have the front rca's and sub rca's from the HU going into the 6 channel so I can dsp the front stage and the subs. Also am using the ACR-3 bass knob that doubles as a preset selector instead of just using an ACR-1 that goes directly into the sub amp. Keep in mind I have a kenwood headunit which is known for being able to play at max volume (40) with no distortion or clipping. When I started to tune my system, I realized for some reason I was getting a clipping input signal into the amp at around 32 volume using a 40hz test tone, but when using a 1khz test tone I could turn it all the way up to 40. I ran through the HU's settings to make sure the subwoofer level was at 0, eq was flat, no bass boost or loudness and the crossovers were all set to full which was all true. I decided to just tune the system with the new max volume being 30 to be safe and get rid of the clipping input signal into the dsp amp.


On the D.6-1200, there is an MILC light which detects any clipping coming into the amp, then there are 2 lights for each channel that shows if that channel is receiving distortion or if it's sending out a distorted signal. In the software, to set the gain there is a slider for each input channel and the one output channel which I'm using for the sub amp.


Since I made a mental note that the new max volume was 30, to compensate I set the input signal to +6db (max is +12db) for the front rca's that feed the 3 way. I left the rca output for the sub amp at 0 and instead turned that gain up on the sub amp itself pretty far to compensate. Went along with my tuning using an acoustical RTA and it sounded pretty good for just a simple quick tune that took all but 20ish minutes. I knew it needed more but planned on doing it the following day since it had gotten pretty late and I planned on hanging out with some buddies that night so I wanted to be able to show off the tunes to them. Only complaint with the first tune was the subs could have been louder (considering I'm overpowering my dual 10" alpines by 150 watts each)


The next day after doing some research on what most people recommend to do when tuning, I realized that everyone recommends to try to keep the INPUT at 0db to minimize sound throughout the car and to set the OUTPUT to the max db before distorting/clipping. I never realized any sound, but I hadn't really been paying attention either.


So I did exactly that, I turned the gain down on the front RCAs to 0, maxed the sub output with no distortion(which I think was either 6db or 9db on the software), and reset the gain on the sub amp which was barely turned as to be expected. This time I realized that I found myself turning the volume up all the way to 30 with almost every song, and the front stage just wasn't loud enough. Maybe it was just the subs drowning it all out, but either way I should not be complaining about the loudness of a 125 watt per channel amplifier.


I made a post on an audiocontrol facebook group asking for help (which to be honest wasn't much help at all lol) but decided I need to be able to turn my HU up louder than 30 since that's what kenwood intended everyone do with an aftermarket system.


That leads us to now where I'm just trying to figure out what is causing the clipping. Every subreddit I've read and every article about my HU all states that there should be no problem with turning up the volume without distortion. I even asked Dean & Fernando on one of their lives about what might have been going on and they had no clue either. They said it could be a HU problem and that they would dyno my same HU whenever they got another one to install, but I'm really hoping they're wrong because it was a $700 HU that I got last november God forbid it is, I'm hoping Crutchfield will warranty it but again maybe it's something more simple than that.


I'm to the point now where I'm thinking maybe it's the DSP amp causing the issues, so maybe I'll just go straight from the HU to the sub amp and see if that fixes the clipping. I've tried moving the sub RCAs around on the amp from channels 3/4 to 5/6 and it didn't change anything. Also tried messing with the crossovers on the HU. Instead of setting the front and sub to full, I set the front HP to 80 and the sub LP to 80 and all it solved was the clip light wouldn't come on for the front rcas using a 40hz test tone (since the HU HP filter wouldn't send that low of a signal)


I'm to the point now where I really am contemplating on returning the D-6.1200 and getting an Audison, Helix, or maybe even ARC audio amp. If it's the HU then it won't really solve my problems but I also know that 100% without a doubt I won't have any issues with them in the future. Also, they allow more tunability and are just all around better (or so I'm told)


I've got 60 days to decide on if I want to return, so I'm gonna keep messing with it to see if I can't figure something out. I already modified the inside to fit the ACR-3 into the factory ash tray which looks and works fantastic, but I'd be fine with buying a replacement if it means I get to solve all of this nonsense.


If you have any idea on what might be going on with this I'd greatly appreicate it, because as of right now I am stumped!

 

I've been going over this all night and the one thing I didn't think to do was to just gain down the subwoofer output on the HU at the crossover section. I'm gonna try this tomorrow and see if it helps.


Also just wanted to add that there is a VERY small chance I'm getting rid of the D-6.1200. I'm very satisfied with it. It puts out lots of power, the software is extremely easy to setup and tune, and I really just don't want to have to redo that amp board again lol.


I just got frustrated that I couldn't figure out this clipping problem. I didn't mean to throw shade or anything like that at Audio Control. So far a happy customer and I'd recommend to others if interested in a simple but good sounding DSP amplifier

 

Man that sounds super frustrating. It sounds like you've done just about everything I can think of as well. Were you experiencing this before you installed the D-6.1200? It's interesting that the clipping only occurs when playing a low hz test tone. Is it possible the voltage on the RCA outs are different for front/rear and your sub out? I was just reading the manual and it looks like it has signal summing, have you tried doing no input into the sub channel and just letting it sum the signal for the sub out channel? Also, it looks like the MILC is only tied to channels 1 and 2?

Total side note, but as I was reading through the manual, I noticed at the bottom of the features on the first page it says "Clam Scented DSP" and I am cracking up. Is that a technical term I'm not aware, typo, cheeky joke? I have no clue what that would mean but it's got me giggling like a school girl thinking about a literal clam scented dsp dipped in clam juice during the manufacturing process.

I guess my only suggestion would be to simplify the signal chain as much as possible to eliminate variables. Also, I 99.99% doubt it's the case, but are your RCA cables good? It sounds like you've exhausted all the options beyond bench testing each piece of equipment. Process of elimination by going straight to sub amp might help sus-out if the new amp is the problem child.

 

Been busy lately, but I had some time to attempt fitting one of the Frak tweeters into a JBL-sail panel. Focal really dropped the ball on mounting options for these tweeters imo. The two options from the factory are to use the included plastic pods, or to use the friction ring they include, which I'm not particularly fond of as they only work by gouging into the frame of the tweeter. I used a pair of flush cutters to remove the JBL sail grill, and then slowly dremeled out the hole wider. Took my time and continuously test fit as I was going. I was able to eventually get the hole to the required 2" diameter and press fit the tweeter into place. Due to the design of the back side of the panel, it's not possible to use the included mounting ring. I was able to save all 3 mounting screw holes, but due to the depth of the tweeter the bracket sits fairly far out from the holes. This doesn't really matter though because it's physically impossible for the tweeter to fall back into the sail panel due to the irremovable surround on the tweeter. There is however the very real possibility that the tweeter could fall out forwards/into the cabin. While I've got them fit super snuggly, and I've given them some good shakes, I'm still worried they won't be secure enough on bumpy roads etc. and might pop out. At this point I'm debating a few options and would love anyone's input.

Option 1) Use CA glue or hot glue to "permanently" affix the tweeter to the sail panel from the back side.

Option 2) Trim the sail panel bracket to obtain appropriate depth around the tweeter and be able to utilize the factory mounting locations, along with possibly wrapping the back sides of the tweeter, and inside of the factory mount with velcro so that the tweeter is velcroed to the bracket, and the bracket is screwed onto the sail panel.

Option 3) Ditch the JBL sail panel idea, cut 2" holes in my flat non-jbl sails, and use the Focal friction ring to secure them.

I think I'm leaning more towards one of the first two options as the focal friction rings are flimsy and honestly kind of a joke for how expensive the tweeters are. Hot glue would probably be strong enough to stop them from popping out (I just gave them some really hard shakes and they didn't pop out). CA glue would probably be the most secure but also slightly overkill. Factory mount + velcro could probably work but might not depending on how everythign would fit together. I'm going to trim the factory mounts down and see what I can get out of them. Pics below for reference.

 

I trimmed down the mounting brackets and realized there's just no way they'll be usable. I'm debating getting some flexible plastic to cut a triangle out of, cut a hole in the center, and then create a donut of velcro on both the plastic triangle and the back of the tweeter to suction the two together, and then screw the plastic triangle into the factory mounts. I'll play around with options. I'd like to avoid glue for messiness although I know hot glue is relatively easy to remove. Can't really see it in these pictures and I forgot to mention it originally, if I decide to stick with these, I'll be re-shaping the cup portion of the panel with body filler etc. so that there's not an overhang around the tweeter surround. At this rate it would be a lot easier, and I doubt I would notice an audible difference between these panels and the flat panels. I like that the JBL panels angle the tweeter and I'm guessing the audio engineers at Toyota designed them with said angle on purpose. Since the tweeters have a cut out of 2" and I have a 2" hole saw, I will probably just end up going that route to save time and headache.

 

So I figured out the problem and after finding it out it seems pretty obvious lol. Since I'm using such a "high quality" head unit it has 5v preouts for the RCAs going to the aftermarket amps. The audio control amps, dsp or not, are rated for 6 volt RCA inputs. I knew this and thought to myself "5 is less than 6 so it must work" not taking into account that I'm going into the dsp FIRST then going to the sub amp. Somehow even at a 0db input gain on the dsp amplifier, the signal had to have been boosted higher than 6 volts at 32+ volume thus creating a clipped signal which the sub amp obviously didn't like. I'm glad I didn't ignore it cause I most definitely would have fried my sub amp if I would have continued to play it like that.


I had the same problem with my D-4.800, but I knew I wasn't going to be keeping that amp and instead would be upgrading to the 6 channel so I just never took the tuning seriously and only played to about 28 volume on the HU, which didn't clip.


To fix the issue, on the output channel of the dsp amp I turned the input gain to -5db. Although the gain on the sub amp itself is turned up pretty high there is no noise so I can't really complain.


Now I can turn the volume up all the way with no issues, but I try to keep it under 36 just because I really don't want to have to buy new subs since I'm pushing 150 watts more to each of them than they are rated for lol. I am using a barely large enough box for these subs so technically I can push some more power, but I'd rather not risk anything. These subs BANG just the way they are and I'm extremely happy with them. Can't ask for much more with the space I've got to work with.



P.S. Audio Control loves adding those jokes all throughout their owners manuals to add an incentive to read them lol.

 

I'd probably get hate for the way I installed mine but I don't really care because it works for me.


I too used a Dremel to fit my audiofrog tweeters in the sail panels. I DIDN'T use anything to hold them on the panel from the back because they were super tight to get on since I was very conservative with how much plastic I cut out. I HIGHLY doubt my tweeters would ever fall out because they were quite a pain to just get into the holes. Plus, on the outside of the tweeters there are two stickers stating where they were made and the individual serial numbers for if I ever needed warranty work. They act as a little barrier that helps hold the tweeter into place


Yes it's lazy, but it works. My tweeters were the exact same way as in they were deeper than the factory tweeter mounts on the panels. Eventually, I might just take some 1/8" or 1/4" plastic and use a torch to bend a little mount to create a kind of dish to screw the tweeter in if that makes any sense. I don't see any problems arising anytime soon though so knowing me I probably wont XD


If you cut your holes to big, you could wrap some tape around the outside of the tweeter to give it more grip on the panel. Kind of cringey and yes it's lazy, but it could work enough just for you to dry fit the panel to see if you like the way the jbl panels look. If not, could restart and make a more custom option.


I also wouldn't be against using some CA glue or hot glue. Just make sure it's what you want before incase you change your mind then you have to go through the trouble of removing it.


Based off of your pictures, your tweeters look pretty similar to mine in terms of how they hang over the lip. I too thought they didn't look very good with the overhang until I installed them into my truck. I can hardly notice the lip when they are sitting vertical on the door since they are pointing directly at me.


I'd recommend you dry fit them in the truck with the jbl panel and tweeter just to see how they look. Who knows, maybe you'll dig it

 

That's great news I'm glad you got it figured out! My new head unit coincidentally has 5v pre-outs as well if I remember correctly so I'll definitely have to keep that in mind. It's funny how little things like that can make such a difference and truly highlights the importance of understanding all the variables at play so as to not damage equipment. That would have sucked if you got everything installed and ignored it and blew the amp. Other than that hiccup, how's the D6.1200 treating you? Have you had any more time to tune it and play around with it? I've heard the Audiocontrol software isn't the best but I have literally 0 experience with DSP's/DSP software so that is 100% based on anecdotal reviews.

 

Been busy lately and haven't had much time to work on them, but I've got some experience working with body filler both on vehicles and for home repairs, so I might take a stab at doing the ol bodyfiller, texture paint, top coat trick to eliminate the overhang. Just have to be mindful of not going too wide on the side nearest to the door frame since the tweeter edge is pretty close to the edge of the panel. I've got some time yet before I'm planning to install everything and I think it'd be a fun project to take a crack at. I figure worst case scenario they turn out like crap and I use a 2" hole saw to cut holes in my flat sail panels. I like that the JBL panels angle the tweeters towards the driver and passenger ever so slightly as opposed to straight at one another if mounting on the flat panels but I'd probably never be able to tell the difference. I too was super delicate in rounding out the holes and my tweeters press in very snuggly and would probably be fine without flue or any additional backstrapping, but I'm just being a nervous nellie with these pricy sons a bitches lol.

 

I'm not sure how people can complain about it. It literally doesn't get any easier in terms of layout and accessibility. My only complaints about it are:


1) I have to wait a while for it to load the save onto my laptop when I first turn the truck on and plug it in (which is being really nitpicky) sometimes I even have to close the app on my laptop then reopen it but it's really not that big of a deal and to be expected with any type of downloadable software imho


2) I wish the EQ tuning was a little bit less drastic with every input. For example, when using the arrows on the keyboard it moves it up and down .5 db.
You can use it as a bar and do .1 db at a time if you want to with your mouse but it's kind of sensitive. Most other company software based off my research is the same way. (again, being super picky and tbh for someone like me just using the arrows works completely fine)


3) Wish I could plug my rta mic into my computer and have it shadow behind the electrical EQ in the software. (technically I can, but I'd need a DMRTA which is crazy expensive lol)


4) The ACR-3 knob that I use as a bass knob/preset changer is a little finicky. By that I mean that when I go to change presets I have to hold the button down for like 3 seconds, and then all it takes is one click to change presets but it doesn't tell me what preset I chose until I'm already in it. The knob spins super easily and it is an infinite spin so that's nice. Planning to add an epicenter micro so I'll use that as the bass knob and then the ACR-3 just as a preset selector. But tbh, I hardly ever change presets OR turn the bass down so it's really just there for looks lol.


That's pretty much my only complaints about it so far. Sounds great. Looks great. Works great. Can't really complain any more than that!
Last weekend I had my headunit at 35 (max volume for gains) for about 4 hours straight while cruising with some buddies and it never missed a beat or over heated. After the long trek, I put my hand on both of the amps and they were barely luke warm (and that was also while blasting the heat on the floor since it's been super cold here recently). Honestly more impressed with my stock alternator keeping up too lol. Definitely gonna order a backup just in case this one poops out anytime soon...


And to the people complaining about losing a save, it literally takes 3 seconds to hold down your mouse over a button on the software and it automatically "burns into" the amp. Extremely easy and I caught myself doing it about every 30 seconds when making any slight change just incase. Can also make a file on your computer with all your saves which again makes it super easy. I just feel the people making these mistakes probably either just bought a laptop just so they could tune their amps or don't have any experience with any type of technology other than a flip phone (my dad is one of those people XD)

 

Can definitely relate to being a "nervous nellie" around these crazy expensive products. Only reason I haven't ordered my GB60s yet is because all of the window seals on top of the doors are all falling apart and just let water pour in when it rains or I take through the car wash. Just ordered some new ones for all the doors but they won't get here till next Wednesday


I'll probably end up cutting a pvc fitting like the other guy who put a GB 3 way in his tundra did to go around the speaker on the inside of the door to act as a splash guard. Just more money I got to spend

 

Well I went and done it...

I ordered the GB25 on Friday and just got them installed today.

I ordered some speaker adapters from sounds good stereo that were advertised to be for the GB25s but they were too small. The speakers fit in the adapter they just weren't wide enough to get all 4 screws into it so I just made my own.


They're built really similarly, pretty much same exact dimensions just with different material.








The right side was a tighter squeeze than the left but they fit perfect.





I ended up trimming the dash panel trim piece to give them some more space. Took a while with some flush cutters but got 'em done.





The GB25s blow their lesser GS counter part out of the water. I'm gonna be honest I had pretty high expectations and I still was amazed the first time I took a listen. And this is also after only spending about 10 minutes adjusting the eq. There's still a lot more I can get out of these I just need to take the time to listen to music and slowly tweak it.


Vocals are crystal clear, and there's so many little things I notice in songs now too. Definitely changed the whole sound stage for the better. Before, I could hear things mostly in front of me on the dash, now I hear things all over. It's crazy!


Can't recommend these enough!

 

Hell yeah man those look wicked! Glad you were able to pull the trigger on them and get them installed! I'm surprised the SoundsGoodStereo adapters didn't work, the amp rack I had from them in my F-150 was a perfect fit. I'll definitely be considering those when it comes time to do my dash corners. Been dealing with a lot of stuff lately that's been taking up a lot of my time, as well as travelling. I finally ordered the sound deadening for the doors, along with speaker rings, silicone baffles to chop up for splash guards, and brackets for the rear doors. Once the sound deadening gets here I should be ready to start installing. Over the last week I started working on the sail panels and they're 99% complete, just need to be clear coated and the inside edge sanded ever so slightly again as I didn't tape off the openings and between texture coat and paint they're a pinch too small for the tweeters to fully drop in. Want to give a shoutout to CarAudioFabrication on Youtube. I more or less followed his plans and tweaked them slightly. Detailed write up with pics below for anyone interested. Happy to answer any questions or provide more details about any of the steps. Products used listed as well:

Bulldog Adhesion Promoter
Bondo Glass
Evercoat Body Filler
SEM Texture Coating
SEM Trim Black paint
Dremel with solid sanding tip and cut off wheel
Drill with 1/8" bit
Flush Cutters
60-80 grit sand paper for shaping
120-150 grit for fine shaping
220 grit for finish sanding



Started by using cutters to remove the grilles. Used a dremel to clean up the edges. Realized that to make the hole wide enough I'd end up cutting into a lot of the slope of the sail panel itself. Since I don't have a 3D printer and didn't want to go try and find speaker rings for the tweeter to sit in that would be flush with the edge, I opted to use the cups that came with the tweeters. Other option would have been creating a body filler edge for the tweeter overhang but the cups seemed a lot easier to use. Drilled holes around the edges for the body filler to seep into. Positioned the cups upside down and taped them in place.





Sprayed them with Bulldog Adhesion promoter prior to body filler. Used body filler with short hair fiberglass for the base layer to cut down on the chance of cracking. Never used it before and although it's a lot harder to shape than regular bodyfiller, it does dry super hard and sturdy thanks to the fiberglass. Next I started building up my body filler layers. I used the kind that changes from "purple" to green when it's ready to sand. Important note, shape it as soon as it starts going green as it's way easier to work with and shape in this stage. Continued to build layers up slowly, no more than 1/8" to 1/4" at a time. Used 60-80 grit to sand and shape layers as I went.




Continued to build layers and shape them. The holes you see drilled in the cup itself were used as markers for cutting out the top of the cup. Used a cut off wheel on the dremel to connect the dots and then a sanding tip to widen the holes out. You can see from the backside that although the fiberglass body filler didn't entirely seep into the holes, it did to a degree which I think definitely helped keep things in place.




Again, slowly kept building layers and shaping them as I went. Made sure not to build out past the edge of the sail panel so it wouldn't get crushed by the door closing. In cutting off the top of the cup and sanding it down some, I realized I'd need a way to make it perfectly flat. Ended up putting some 80 grit sandpaper on my patio table and using that as a surface to deck the top flat like I've seen people do for diy engine block repair. Pressed the panel down onto the sandpaper with medium pressure and oscillated it around until all of the high spots were taken down and the cup's edge was flat. Took my time and it worked super well.



Once I had them decked, I did a final layer of body filler, and then sanded it with 120 followed by 220 to get it nice and smooth. Test fit the tweeters and was happy with how they were looking.


The next few pictures were probably not necessary but glazing putty is relatively cheap and I didn't want to cut any corners. Seeing as I was going to texture them again, probably not necessary but I chose to do it anyways. Smeared it on with a gloved finger and sanded it with 220 once dry. It filled the pinholes nicely and allowed me to feather out the edges nicely. Again, sprayed with Bulldog Adhesion promoter hence the sheen in the 2nd pic. I then used SEM Texture Coating. Definitely recommend the stuff. Unlike me, practice on a piece of scrap wood or something first to get your distance and sweep speed down. I ended up doing 3 light coats and got a little heavy handed on the 4th and ended up sanding it down a good bit before doing another few coats the next day. I will say it probably didn't hurt anything as it helped to make the whole panel uniform.


I forgot to take pics of the in between stages of texture coating. If using SEM Texture coating, let it dry well between coats. Can says 5-10 mins, definitely give it closer to 10 between coats, that way your coating beads don't run together and smooth out. Also, as you're doing the texture coating, it's not going to look like much. Do 3-4 light coats or until you have full coverage on the panel. Let it dry overnight and then use some really fine sandpaper to knock it down. I ended up using 600 grit super lightly and slowly until I had more or less uniform texture across the panel. I did a handful of rounds of sanding and blowing it off with compressed air to check for spots that didn't match. While I didn't quite obtain the faux-leather grain look of the other panels, I'm super happy with the results. For top coat I used SEM Trim Black. Did 3-4 medium coats. I probably would have done one less as I think I did one too many and filled in the texture a little too much. Like I said earlier, I still need to clear coat them and sand out the inside edge so the tweeters fully seat in place. I'd say they turned out pretty good for my first time making a pair and am happy with the texture and shape. I didn't do any fancy aiming of the cups etc. and just made sure they were even when I taped them to the panel in the initial stage. I figure if I hate them I can always make another pair that are more directional etc. but these should be angled at the driver and passenger somewhat rather than just flat across the dash at each other. You can see a slight gap in these final pics because they're not fully seated and I didn't want to push on them too hard. Still debating on how I'll attach them from the back for extra security but I've still got all 3 factory screw holes and the brackets that came with them. I'm thinking I'll do some combo of those and velcro for them to be super secure although just the pressure alone of them in the cup is how Focal intended them to fit, although since I installed the cups upside down I think they have a slight taper I had to sand to get them to fit properly. Will post more pics when I work on them again this week.




Realized looking back I duplicated some of the pics but too lazy to change them lol.

 

Forgot to ask, have you had a chance to tune these more? Realized it's been almost a month already, time's been flying by. Seeing as these don't require any dash modification I think I'll be mighty tempted to use them once I do the dash corners.