Supercharging the Right Way...

No. Especially the bolded section.
Zero evidence any of the other supercharger offerings are more or less detrimental to the engine's longevity.
You could more feasibly claim the opposite since Toyota cancelled it as a factory offering in 2015.

 

It went through full development with Toyota. I've had mine for 9 years now without issue and I'm running the Bully Dog tune for FFV. No issues with the engine at all. I do change the oil and filter every 2500 miles. But it has run flawlessly for 9 years. You are a little late to this party.

 

<eating popcorn in the cheap seats>

 

One case and anecdotal. You still haven't proven the others are inferior to the TVS 1900. To be clear I'm not baggin on the TVS 1900 but your proclamation of it being the best option.

Toyota cancelled the whole program in 2015 as an official offering so clearly the development didn't go as planned. Emissions/EPA concerns is cited but the official response was the expense of engine calibrations. To be fair the means of calibrating back then are subpar to what is available now.

You missed the main point of my comment. Buried in the General Supercharger thread the canned tune is discussed in detail. One of the main findings was high knock. The conclusion is people with superchargers should get a custom tune.

It is worth noting the person you addressed originally is running a 2019 and not likely running a FFV so bullydog won't do jack squat for them since it isn't available for his truck. Your anecdote on how it worked for you doesn't apply to that poster.

 

None and I repeat NONE of the other superchargers were developed by Toyota. The Magnuson was the one and only. It was also the only SC to be given a full factory warranty when installed by a Toyota dealer. None of the others were. The tune won't be any different for my 2015 Tundra than it will be for the last 5.7L built. There were no magical tuning developments that have taken place from 2015 to 2022. Same ECU.

The Magnuson comes with the same non ffv tune that my BD has. I have not seen any failures of the Magnuson unless someone deviated from the factory set up. Many others have had issues with engine longevity. The TRD was discontinued due to cost and lack of sales. It was an expensive add on at $7500 + install that took 2 to 3 days for the dealer to do. 1600 to 2400 for install. Nearly a quarter of the cost of the truck. They would not let you finance it in with the truck loan, so it was a cash expense for whom ever purchased the truck.

Again Toyota honored the full vehicle warranty and did that due to the durability testing they performed during development.

Any other manufacturer you are relying on Joe blow at the local dyno shop to create a tune. You are depending on his skill set to make it safe. A huge gamble.

 

Magnuson 2650, Harrop 2650, or the Whipple are all good options with pros and cons. I would not recommend the "stage 1" Harrop. The Magnuson comes with a more complete package because it includes the intake assembly which people usually upgrade the other superchargers with the Magnuson intake, though the other superchargers come with larger injectors so if you upgrade the power on the Magnuson you have to swap out the injectors that come with the Magnuson (it comes with its own injectors but they aren't that much larger than stock).

As for tuning I think there's a number of places in Texas. There's also quite a few places that can tune your truck remotely if you buy HP Tuners or VF Tuner. The Magnuson comes with its own tune that works in factory form and seems pretty solid from the datalogs I've seen.


All those options are different than the 1900 Magnuson the above people are talking about, which I don't think is offered anymore and I would not suggest anyways since it's outdated compared to the current offerings.

 

The TVS1900 is still offered for the Land Cruiser, so it’s still possible to go that route.

Here’s the piston from a friend’s 2.5 gen TVS1900 FFV with Bullydog. In all fairness, it did make it to 99k miles… the extended warranty company wasn’t happy shelling out for a short block so close to the 100k limit, but they did.

 

Had MCBAutotech in Houston install my mag2650 with the Yotawerx Stryker tune.

Mines flex fuel though. As a side note was informed that Magnuson’s tune is only for non flex, they don’t have a flex tune. They’ve forwarded flex customers to Yotawerx for tuning.

 

Tuned but not a supercharger guy so not much to add except a minor thing… You’re right that there wasn’t any magical tuning developments but the 18-21 ECU is different. It has different storage and the code structure is different.

 

In my opinion, based on my somewhat limited experience (I only spun bearings on one engine, blew a piston ring land on another and broke a couple of rods on the third one ), the stock Magnuson/Toyota TRD tune sucked, and the BullyDog made the engine even more likely to grenade.

 

@ViktorG I fully concur with your assessment! Bullydog is total crap...

 

All I’ve read in regards to bullydog since following the boosted tundra scene is that the bullydog SC tune is an engine grenader special.

 

You claimed "safest" as an absolute yet all that to say and zero facts offered to support your claim.

Collaborating with an OEM doesn't imply safer when you consider all the baseline installs all stay within the same power levels. Offering a warranty isn't preventative it just opens up a replacement option if you grenade your engine. In reality this does nothing for safety.

It is a logical fallacy original = "safest". The TVS 1900 design is close to 17 years old at this point. Efficiency improvements have been made in the technologies used in a supercharger most of which translate into less stress on the engine.

For starters the rotor efficiency, the key component of a blower, have improved with the TVS 2650. Eaton has the specs on both to compare. It has already been demonstrated the larger rotors make same or more power with less boost (restriction) which translates into the engine doesn't have to work as hard to make power.

Speaking of rotors, Eaton makes all the TVS rotors for Magnuson, Harrop and other blowers (Whipple uses Lysholm screws). The housing of the blowers are different but they are all still limited by the same physical envelope and interface surface. Point is the differences between the various TVS 2650s are smaller than the difference between TVS 1900 and the TVS 2650.

A tear down of the intercooler bricks on one of the newer models also show improvements in cooling potential from the original TRD blower; e.g. thicker core, larger surface. Lower IATs are better for safety.

Regarding warranty, when I was in the market for a S/C, only one dealer was still offering Toyota backed warranty installs for the smaller Magnuson and had the installation and calibration experience. There are probably a total of three dealers nationwide, if even that many, that offer a full warranty with the install of a TVS 1900. The dealer I spoke to probably still does installs but they are using canned tunes for their installs. They don't use a dyno at all.

Tuning options and tuning knowledge have also improved in 17 years. Tuning isn't limited to piggyback systems etc, various vendors support ECU recalibration now. The body of tuning dos and don'ts have also grown as has the tuning community grown as well. Several reputable and active tuners are available for remote tuning and they don't have to pioneer to discover optimal settings.

When you say nothing has changed with the ECU that is false as well. For starters the encryption has changed with the 2019s+ which is why many of the older products, like Bullydog, don't work for the later years.

Again you are confused, the overall expense of the program was the symptom, the root cause is engine recalibration and emissions.:

“TRD is discontinuing its Supercharger program due to the increasing legacy costs associated with the recalibration of an expanding pool of past model year vehicles, along with rising development/engineering expenses and evolving emissions requirements that have negatively impacted the program’s return on investment to the point where it is no longer financially viable to offer these products for sale.


Despite the loss of the Supercharger program, TRD Performance Accessories are still well-represented with exhausts, suspension components, wheels, and other trim features that add an aggressive style note wherever they are seen. The rich heritage of TRD will continue to be made available through all Toyota dealers with the remaining parts offerings.”
https://www.motortrend.com/news/1506-toyota-discontinues-truck-superchargers/


If you do some digging on the other older forums you'll see early adopters were grenading their engines so I doubt the margin of safety is as high as you think it is. That doesn't discount that you've had a good experience, a post mortem tear down of an engine with a cracked piston and close to 100K supercharged miles showed no unusual wear in the cylinders or other pistons.

 

@Saltyhero13 like the info in your response.

 

Hold on to your hats boys and girls.

This may come as a surprise to you but we will start with the Roots blower. Of which all of the blowers we are discussing here are based upon. This miraculous concept has been around since the 1850’s. All be it adapted to the Diesel and automotive industry just recently by Gottlieb Daimler in 1900….. It will shock you to know that there have been no MAJOR changes to the function of this apparatus over the past 174 years. It still performs one basic function…..compressing air. We can get lost in 2 vein, 3 vein, 4veins etc… but the basic premise has remained the same for the past 174 years. Sorry no magical differences in the 3 blowers you reference for your Tundra.

Fuel tables and stoichiometry: Basic fuel air ratios have been used since the inception of……wait for it…. Carburetors and eventually fuel injection in the automotive industry…..I know this may come as a surprise but we have known that the theoretical optimum air fuel ration for fuel combustion is 14.7:1. For those of you new to this game its 14.7 kg of air to 1kg of fuel for the combustion process to take place. (Now this does vary with fuel quality-Octane ratings) but these are the basics.

Surprisingly enough ECU’s have been controlling this in mass production since…..wait for it……..1975.

I know you think the 2018 ECU for the tundra is somehow the end all be all magical box for fuel injection but I am here to tell you it hasn’t changed much when it comes to fuel tables since the first ECU.

Also we have been using O2 sensors and Mass airflow sensors to control fuel since the late 80’s. Shocking, I know. But we have been utilizing this technology for 40plus years now to measure air fuel ratios in real time on a vehicle. And magically Turbos and Blowers have been running on production cars without incident for just as long.

Now stating that aftermarket companies are better than we are at an OEM level is hilarious. How many Aftermarket companies have a fully temperature and humidity controlled rolling road dyno load cell at their disposal and can emulate driving conditions that vary from -20 to over 150 degrees and control humidity along the way from 0 to 100%? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say none. So to state that an aftermarket company can perform ECU tuning at the same level as we can at the OEM level is preposterous.

Also we place vehicles at our test facilities all over the world in the harshest environments under every condition imaginable such as trailer tow conditions on Bakers Grade and run them through death valley. We also do the same in arctic conditions. I’m pretty sure that none of your aftermarket blower companies have done this on every vehicle they manufacture a blower for. I’m actually pretty sure they have not done this at all. (the only exception to this would be Eaton and Magnuson as they have developed blowers in conjunction with OEM’s) so they have a leg up.

What you get from any aftermarket company when compared to an OEM is a basic tune created at the temperature and humidity conditions for that particular day at whatever sea level their facility is located at. A rudimentary tune at best.

 

@Vector W8 when you were on tundratalk you had to have seen the posts on grenading engines. They happened on Toyota installed SC tuned engines. Some had good luck others didn't with longevity.

 

Ford now offers Whipple’s… does it mean they developed it? It’s like saying the stock TRD fox off the shelf shocks are the best things ever lol keep your shitty coupler inefficient blower.

 

Magnuson, Harrop and Whipple have all partnered with OEMs. Harrop has also partnered with Toyota on cars for different markets, as well as Lotus, Ford, GM and more. All that really counts from one blower to the next is the rotor pack, and as far as Magnuson and Harrop go they both share the same Eaton rotor packs. There isn’t much for moving parts to the rest of it to be afraid of. The Whipple makes boost an entirely different way, compressing the air between the rotors as opposed to the Eaton compressing it against the case. There is no denying there have been large strides especially in the Eaton TVS designs of the past to the present. These 2650s are more efficient and run cooler, while also having much larger heat exchangers to absorb and reject the heat which is a huge contributor to these engines failing with the blowers. They make more power with less heat for cooler IATs.

 

do you think the new 2650 blower from magnuson puts up better numbers then this ?

 

I don’t think there’s any reason to believe it would be better. They should be very comparable using the same 2650 rotor pack and both having nicely sized intercoolers.

 

Now there is a company in the NE that is making their own Blower for the GM trucks (Sierras). While using their blower which they install making HP up to 750 and more they offer full factory warranty thru them.