2020 Differential needle bearing failure

Have you greased your driveshafts? I’d start by ruling out the simple things

 

The joints aren’t serviceable on a 2021. No zerk fittings to grease.

 

We are talking about removing the CV axle from the front wheel bearing hub? Did you remove the two lower ball joint bolts. Also the brake caliper has to be unbolted. You don't want to be hammering on the end of the CV axle or you could end up buying a new axle because of damaged threads.

 

Yup all of that was removed before I tried hammering on it

 

That’s a first. They normally only take a couple of taps and they’re out. Your going to have to get a puller that attaches to the wheel studs and pushes the axle out.

 

Mine didn’t remove with a few taps either. I did the few taps, nothing. moved to a deadblow hammer to avoid damage and then moved onto a brass punch into the center notch. Saw plenty of videos were it folks separated it like that but mine just didn’t budge.

The puller will do the trick and is gentle on it. The fact the CV has a center divot and pullers having a conical threaded pin would almost lead you to believe they are designed to be used with each other.

 

Yep, mine is starting to do the same thing. My truck is loud or my ears are bad so can't really hear a noise. I feel it's the needle bearing cuz my 4Runner did the same thing. I plan on getting this taken care of in the spring.

 

I've been paying very close attention lately and notice a vibration at ~35 MPH as well. I though it was maybe tires, but given the intermittence based on vehicle speed it has to be in the driveline somewhere. I figured on jacking it up this weekend to check all the u-joints, carrier bearing, wheel bearings and ball joints for play. If everything is tight I'll go ahead and get the parts to do the needle bearing.

 

Sure seems like a lot of 20-21’s had this issue.

 

Given the experience with the 4Runner I figured it was only a matter of time until this one needed done also. I'm right at 40K miles now on the Tundra.
The 2016 4Runners was done around 45K miles if I remember correctly? IMO, It is a worthwhile investment to switch to the bushing from ECGS instead of trying to deal with a dealer in some fashion. But I'm not a fan of dealers so there is that. Just figure why put the same thing in there again so I would have to change to the bushing after warranty anyways?

 

I'm with you there even though I'm still under warranty. Under $200 in parts and a couple hours in the garage for a guaranteed fix is worth more to me than a trip to the dealer for the diagnosis, a trip back to drop the truck off once the parts are in, and another trip back to pick it up with the chance that the problem will just come back again.

 

Does anyone know if there's a cut-off (mfr date) to when the problem was resolved w/the '21s, or is it pretty much any 20-21 is susceptible??

 

According to T-SB0121-08, Toyota fixed the problem in 2008 for the 2007-08 model year and "Production changes have been implemented to help prevent this noise". I dunno if there have been subsequent TSB's that have addressed this though, and wouldn't describe my symptoms exactly like this TSB does.

 

gotcha... thanks!

so, did you leave the portland area??

PS>>> Merry Christmas!!!!

 

I tried the old TSB to no avail at my dealership. The techs and service manager played dumb, said it didn’t apply to the 2020. Even though it went away in 4HI.

My guess is that COVID allowed quality to slip more and a bad batch of carriers were installed.

 

Thanks, you too! Yeah, moved back home to the Midwest in May - wife and I were out there for a 2 year work assignment. The west coast was fun, the work was good, but it wasn't home. Baby #1 is less than 2 weeks away right now and we knew it was time to come home!

 

If it's a front Toyota diff made any time this century, it's part of the bad batch of carriers. When the solution to growling is to hope and pray the stackup of tolerances in another unit is good enough to tame spider gear movement, I consider them all bad.

Now that it's winter and cold my truck is making the racket again. Woo woo woo at 30 mph. It's the Toyota mating grunt. Someday I'll deal with it. So far this is the seventh noisy winter and it hasn't exploded, yet. I really should order that bushing kit

 

I think what your experiencing is not the left front CV axle support bearing if you have gone seven years and it's remained the same. On my truck it only took about 30,000kms (20,000 miles) and when the left front axle was pulled there was enough damage to the journal that it had to be replaced.

 

I replaced my needle bearing yesterday at 34k miles with the bushing. Vibrations are gone.

I think my symptoms were considerably different from what the TSB states. I had pulsing vibrations at ~35 and ~55 mph. I first noticed it at less than 5k miles and it was purely felt, but by about 30k miles it was audible. My truck is very quiet (exhaust resonator, insulated cab, hwy tires) so maybe that’s why I noticed it so early.

I noticed some very obvious wear on the needle bearing, but not on the actual needles themselves. The carrier that holds all the individual needles inside the outer race was obviously rubbing on the axle shaft. It’s very difficult to get to show in pictures, but the wear is there.

I also lost probably half a quart of gear oil with the axle and seal out, so definitely keep some handy if you do this.

 

No marks on your CV axle shaft?

 

Nothing significant enough that had me worried. There appeared to be swirls but I couldn’t feel anything under my finger nail.

 

The replacement bearing that Toyota provides is a different bearing. If my memory serves me correctly it's a wider bearing.

 

Isn’t Toyotas TSB protocol to replace the entire front diff? I didn’t think they were only replacing the bearing. The ECGS bushing is a decent amount longer than the factory bearing.

 

TSB if your under warranty. Out of warranty the customer would be shocked at the cost of the whole diff so the reason for the updated bearing.

 

I get that part, but this is the first I’ve heard of an updated needle bearing. If the wider needle bearing fixes the issue, I’m confused why Toyota didn’t start using them after issues were discovered.

Just look at how many 2020-21 models here had the problem (including mine). Kind of bothers me to know Toyota had a bearing that would have helped resolve the issue all along.

What is the updated part number?

 

Sorry but I don't know the part number. I just remember reading about it a couple years back when I was going though all this. Wether or not it solved the issue, I don't believe it did. Might just last a little longer. Personally I don't believe it's a design problem but an assemble/manufacturing issue. The problem with the bearing first came about in the first gen for a couple of years then didn't start showing itself again until 2020 and 2021. There are many high mileage Tundras that are running the original bearing.

Rather than take a chance on a "revised" bearing, just install a ECGS kit and be done with it.

 

Yea, I agree with that. I installed the ECGS to resolve it. I tried looking up the needle bearing and found one that has a superseded part number. I’m very curious if the newer longer bearing is installed in the later years of the 2.5 gen and if it’s longer than the earlier years. Unfortunately I tossed mine and can’t get a measurement.

 

Now it seems like I’ve created a new issue. It was dead smooth right after install, but over the last 500ish miles I have harmonic vibrations develop that peak at 35, 45, and 60 MPH. They actually get worse in 4HI, I can hear them and feel through the steering wheel and floor. Over 65 and it’s smooth.

Any ideas? Maybe a bad bushing? I know I got everything back together correctly, the axle seated correctly and easily.
The axle spins freely. When I put everything back together there was no tolerance where the CV rides in differential housing, but now I can wiggle it very slightly (much like the passenger side).

 

What did the CV look like?

 

Some swirl marks but nothing I could catch with my fingernail.

I also just rotated my tires and that’s when I started noticing it. They’re craptastic OEM Bridgestone Duellers that are 3 years old, maybe they’re going bad. I have some new tires I’m mounting up this weekend, I’ll see if that changes anything.