2022 Tundra Suplemental Transmission Cooler?

Class action lawsuit, sounds familiar. GM 8 speed comes to mind. Lets build a 10 speed even though we couldn't build a 8 speed.

 

and some of the same issues with lurching, shuddering, jerking are still issues in the 10 speed (both GM and Ford)
Ford definitely leads with the most class actions on different transmissions, DPS6 in the Focus and Fusion, 6F and 8F series in the Explorers, Taurus, Escapes, and now the 10R's
Nissan definitely leads in sheer volume with their CVT's from 2008-2022
I thought GM would have learned to use better parts after the 4L series, those are great units when certain parts are upgraded. The 6L's and newer are very problematic, especially since they incorporate part of the pump into the bellhousing and have faulty thermal bypass valves and the TCM's go bad

 

Which part of his story do you think he's BS'ing?

The 4 million miles on fleet? The claim that he's not had any failures? Or the routine temps the trucks are running?

If you owned one of these superduty's would you be adding a second cooler?

 

I highly doubt the transmission is ever at 185 F other than at warm-up.

 

Failures and temperatures. I always suggest a second cooler for anything being used to pull trailers or being used routinely for heavier service or if the vehicle has oversized tires and added power from a tuner or upgraded power adders. Some units are still going to be prone to failure simply based on bad design or in most cases the OEM using inferior parts to save money. For example, in the valve body every valve is a potential leak point. In the case of the Ford 10 speeds, this would not be of concern if the transmission's valve body featured steel valves or anodized protective layers on the exterior of said valves, but unfortunately they are not. The valves are manufactured out of a low cost aluminum alloy designed to minimize cost at volume, leaving them susceptible to bore wear. A lot of drum bushings in these units also are prone to failure because of excessive heat and pressure. So as someone who regularly sees and services these types of vehicles, for someone to say they have a fleet of these and drive millions of miles with high transmission temperatures and no failures, is just simply not truthful.

 

You need to clarify, I have built many transmissions in my shop and it's fairly easy to regulate the transmission to a lower temperature using an external cooler.

 

I think the newer trans and fluids are designed to run hotter than in years past, they want the fluid to warm up

I don't think this is exclusive to toyota either, but Ill defer to others on the specifics

 

For my 6l80, I have external transmission cooler with tstat turning fan on at 160 to keep it between 1605 and 180. Nothing yet on the tundra.

What is your recommended temp for the low end of range with 180 being the high end?

With the ambient about 32F, here are the temps after 30 minutes of suburb drive, about 90% at 40mph stop/go. Top temp on the banks is trans temp. 2nd row left is EOT, right side ECT. 3rd down is IAT.

Colder days (low 20's) typically see ATF at 120ish. It simply does not warm up.

Dash bar is about 40%, most I've seen to date is 50%ish - owned since October '23.

Hopefully Banks is polling the correct PID.

 

Newer fluids that are synthetic can spike to higher temperatures without degradation, but not sustained high temperatures. The main difference in higher speed transmissions fluid is a different oil viscosity, has absolutely nothing to do with running hotter. No one designs a transmission to run hotter. The device(s) designed to get the fluid up to an operating temperature on newer vehicles are thermal bypass valves and active air shutters. Once the vehicle has reached a nominal operating temperature these devises open or close depending on configuration.

 

thats fine, I didnt really explain what I was trying to say very well. what I meant by design, what I was trying to say is they let them run at higher temps than before, you see it all over the place when readings are given.

 

Torque converter lockup generally won't occur until the fluid is up to 80 degrees. So as long as your transmission temp is at or over 100 degrees, consider that the low end. The 6L and any 6 speed or higher transmission should be running on a synthetic fluid and is going to have a different viscosity than the older stuff. That's one reason why a lot of these newer vehicles are running on 0W-20 motor oil, my guys refer to it as watered down oil because the viscosity feels like water At 32 ambient you would expect to see 100 degrees added to that, so 138 is considered normal. If it's in the low 20's 120-135 won't hurt anything. Remember it's heat that usually ends up destroying the transmission, so keeping it below 180-190 is the main thing. In the Tundra there's only one transmission temp sender and it's in the lower valve body and measures the fluid temperature at the discharging part of the oil pump where the temperature is stable to achieve accurate fluid temperature. So the banks is pulling from the only available PID for the temperature.

 

the 10 speed is sealed right lifelong fluid, or is there a way to flush it?

 

They really aren't designed to run higher temps, their tolerances are just pushed to the limit. Unlike an internal combustion engine that needs to run "hot" in order to maximize efficiency, transmissions really like staying cool. The OEM's are getting higher engine temps by using cast aluminum blocks, higher compression, oil viscosity, etc. Keep in mind that an engine has water AND oil to help keep temps managed, and a transmission only has oil to do so. There are trade-offs to higher engine temps as well, there used to be a time when all transmission coolers were run through a cooler tank built into the radiator. More and more OEM's have switched to running cooler lines through the A/C condenser now and have added secondary supplemental coolers. This is due to the engine temperatures running at a higher temperature and the OEM trying to "engineer" a way to keep the transmission temperature at a lower rate.

 

What’s the normal operating temp for trans temp? I’m using a OBD2 scanner app and it’s picking up trans pan temp. Would like to have a red line that I would keep as a stop marker if it ever reaches that point when I’m towing.

 

Another misconception, especially in Toyota world. There's no such thing as a lifetime fluid, all fluid breaks down over time and usage. I used to deal with this a lot in the Tacoma forums when I owned a 3rd Gen Taco. The owners manual states a "sealed unit" but that's really bad on Toyota's part. Almost all transmissions now come "sealed" with no way for the consumer to check the fluid level or condition. My personal opinion is another way to force the consumer to take their vehicle to the stealership for service. Some BMW's don't even come with an engine oil dipstick, but rather have an electronic gauge in the instrument cluster! Think about this, if the Toyota fluid was a true "lifetime" and "sealed unit" then why would they sell a transmission filter for these trucks? (P/N 353300C030) They also have a published booktime of 1.9 hours to change the transmission filter. A "flush" is the worst thing you can do to your transmission. What I'm talking about is where they stick a suction tube down in your transmission and suck out the fluid and use high pressure to 'flush the system out then fill it back up. Would you get your oil changed at a place where they just suck out the old oil and never change the filter? This is also bad because any debris or clutch material that's in the bottom of the pan gets stirred up and can circulate through your valve body. The only way to do a transmission service is to drain the pan. That way you can inspect for silver or gold colored flakes in the fluid. You will have some small ferrous material stuck to your magnet, this is normal clutch wear. You also have access to change the filter. You will still have about a quart or so left in the converter, but that's ok because the only way to flush the converter is to remove the transmission from the vehicle and pour it out. Not something a lot of people are going to do do and is really unnecessary unless you have gold flakes in the fluid. That's usually indicative of internal converter wear or bushings. When you are changing the filter you disconnect the cooler lines going to the transmission and flush out the cooler. I have a hot flush machine to do this. If you are a DIY'er, there are aerosol flush cans you can use if you want to flush the cooler lines.

 

If your using it on the Tundra, it's picking up the temp from the temp sensor in the valve body which is grabbing temperature from the pump, which will be slightly higher than the pan but a better indicator of fluid temp. Anything less than 185 is going to be optimal and prolong the life of the transmission. A "red line" would probably be sustained temp at 220 or higher (doesn't go down after 5-10 miles of driving), it could spike at that temperature but then start cooling back down, but if it does repeatedly spike or you have sustained high temperatures it's best to get the fluid changed soon. Below is a a funny, yet informative chart

 

The chart everyone keeps posting is from the 60’s. Newer transmissions are designed to run hotter.

 

I said that and got booed out of the building by our resident trans shop owner , so maybe thats not the case.

guess I dont really give a shit, I drive it and if it blows up toyota can fix it, knock on wood,I never had a problem with aisin trans

 

Optimum trans fluid temp is your coolant temp...that's why the trans "cooler" runs through the radiator. I think we run into issues when were not getting enough heat exchange/sudden trans temp spikes and the hot coolant cant absorb the additional heat as fast. We're not seeing hot coolant temps, only trans...means it's not cooling efficiently inside the radiator. I would run an inline trucool 40k with or without a t-stat or even an inline actuator valve...could always leave it closed during winter months and open it up when needed.

 

Someone must know someone who knows someone who knows how to solve the Gen3 Tundra Transmission Cooler solution. Someone know someone who knows
someone?

FYI - did a Hayden on my Gen3 Taco and it dropped the temps 20 degees consistently. Started with the TruCool but it shit the bed on initial pressuring - not the quality they use to be.

 

This is outdated information. The fluid in the 2019-2021 Tundras is rated for 280 degrees continuously. One post states that the components are rated for 325 degrees.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sometimes the internet isn't for everyone. This is another Billy Madison moment.

 

Thanks ..
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13402

..and saved.

Also good info on flush vs drop pan and new filter. What's shop name and address ? ..pm me if can't post for some reason.

 

Just chiming in here to say that if you think 225F is hot, then I can tell you haven't seen what the 2019+ 2.5 gens are doing. 225F is actually cold for those trucks.

 

Go ahead and run your transmission at 280 degrees to 325 degrees then, it's one reason why my transmission shop and others are are in business.

 

Not exactly, it's really more about cost savings on the manufacturer end of things. A good many OEM's now run transmission cooling through the A/C condenser opposed to the radiator. The condenser gets airflow before the radiator and a lot of newer vehicles are running a hotter engine temperature. It's more cost effective to run the cooler through the radiator or condenser because it means one less heat exchanger that has to be put somewhere. Saves the cost of design and engineering and another part. As I stated before your transmission optimal temperature is 185 degrees or less. A common failure in newer transmissions is the thermal bypass valve, which is designed to stay closed to bring the transmission up to operating temperature faster, then open at a preset temperature to allow transmission fluid to go to the heat exchanger. These valves often become stuck in the closed position and don't allow fluid to get cooled down. Either way, you're on the right track with a separate cooler.

 

??? is there a separate Transmisson cooler available for our Gen3 Tundra's ? I for one would like to have one if so. I installed one on my Gen3 Taco and it made a world of difference for every type of driving - especially towing. The Gen3 Tundras need one badly IMO. Thanks.

 

More misinformation! Never said I or anyone else should run their transmission at those temperatures. Just stating what Toyota engineers have given as tolerances of fluid and components. I monitor my 21’s pan temperatures and see average 209 in around town driving. When towing an 8500 lb. camper 65 mph in tow/haul mode and S4 I see average of 218 with occasional peaks of 226.
Since it appears from your profile you own a 24 Tundra and you are a transmission shop owner I would be interested in your description of how the 24 transmission is cooled.