No crank demon

SOS...... 2005 Tundra 4x4 4.7 265k on the clock. It suddenly has some weird demons. I drove truck to airport and left the country. I just came back today and It will not crank. Turn key to start and no clicks, no nothing. I can hear air pump running under intake when key is in run position, headlights / dash lights do not dim when trying to crank. Battery is top notch. After long hours of checking every fuse and relay, moving shift selector back and forth with key in start position and still no crank. Tested starter relay and it clicks when energized but will not if using key. I get 8.5 volts to excite side of relay when key is in crank position (assuming that power comes from ECU?).

I finally got it to start just now if I turn key to run position and use jumper wire to send power to starter side of relay in fuse box. It starts and runs.. But as soon as I try to shift to drive it dies. I can start it in park and go to reverse and move truck no problem. But when I shift to back to drive it dies.. I can start it in Neutral and shift to drive and it runs and drives.But shift back to park and it dies.... Going into neutral seems to be the killer. Will a bad NS switch do this? Getting an open circuit and no crank situation I understand.. But killing engine seems odd.. Any ideas.. I got to get this truck out of here ASAP! Any ideas?

 

Might be the starter. Did you check the fuses?

 

Check battery cables for resistance. These get moisture in them and corrode from the inside.

 

Diablo. Thanks for the response Starter spins fine and truck starts every time once I put power to the relay. Seems the starter relay is not being told to close to send juice to the solenoid. Since it dies instantly every time the shift lever passes neutral I am guessing NS switch. May have to just bite the bullet and spring for one hoping it solves the issue.

 

OK Guys... Still need some input.....So no change when I swapped out the NS Switch with a new Toyota part (what a SOB to get it off the shaft). New NS switch = Same symptoms. No cranking despite getting full power from key to relay. Bench tested starter relay and it is OK. Now here is where it gets interesting. Before swapping out the old NS switch while the truck was running I disconnected it and the truck idle bumped up for a second and then came back down to normal and seemed to run a little better than it did prior to unplugging. With it disconnected, once I start it (by power probing the starter side of relay) it starts and STAYS running, even when shifting through all the gears.. Plug the new NS switch back in and it instantly dies. I have 14 volts at battery when starting and when running with hi revs 14.4. Just for haha's I decided to run a ground wire from the ground side of the starter relay (pin opposite from power in from ignition switch) and yup, the truck starts with the key and stays running and the NS switch seems to be operating fine. WHAT does that mean? Am I going to cook something? I can't find a wiring diagram to see where that ground wire goes when it leaves the relay. If I probe that wire it shows it does indeed go to ground. Why would it show a ground when I test it with a meter but will not go to ground when relay is energized? Weirdness all around. I don't dare just run a jumper wire from that relay to battery ground until I find out what else that might feed. How to I get a wiring diagram?

 

Stupid question, but did I miss where you said you tested the relay socket with the relay out, to confirm whether the leg is getting spiked when the key is turned forward?

Flagship One (fs1) sells refurb ECUs if you think it's the thing responsible. You jut need the part number off yours and they'll sell you the replacement at a reasonable price. Part number is on it, it's behind the glovebox, and part number will usually be in the format of XXXXX-0c0XX.

 

Hello Shifty.. Yes.. I do get power to relay when turning key to start position .

 

Have you tested and/or replaced the relay? Note: Some folks have had problems with store-bought relays for that specific part.

If the relay trigger is getting power, then the relay should be tripping and sending power to the starter, just as you're doing when you jumper it. If that's not happening, the relay certainly must be bad. Relays are pretty simple devices. They typically take an input power signal (or ground), and open/close a circuit depending whether they're receiving an active signal (or ground) on a specific leg.

 

Yes.. I actually swapped the relay out with a couple others from the fuse block. No change. When testing the relay it does trigger (can feel and hear it click) and I get continuity between the two other blades. So it seems to be OK.

 

Ok, so let me get this straight, I may be misunderstanding.

If you leave it to the relay, you feel it click (i.e. it's getting ample power to throw the pole, completing the circuit), but it doesn't start.
However, if you remove the relay and directly jumper the starter at the socket, it starts?

If yes, these are very distinct symptoms with a very limited set of potential causes, and it sounds like you're honing in on a solution.

 

Here is the weird thing. I get NO click if relay is installed and turn the key to start. But I do get power to the relay from the ignition switch. That Is what lead me to thinking it must be because the relay has no ground connection. By leaving the relay installed and grounding the opposite blade using a jumper wire to battery it solved the issue. It starts and runs and no longer dies when I shift through the gears. But now I need to know where that ground wire from the relay goes and if I will ruin anything if I leave my jumper wire in.

 

Sounds like you have a bad ground, then. Have you been thru the EWD (elec wiring diagram) to see where that ground is sourced yet?

As an interim solution, to test your theory, you could also take 16-18awg wire, expose 1" off one end, wrap it around the ground leg, and tie it to any other nearby ground. If it starts every time, you know bad ground is your issue.

If you need EWD, they're linked from the 4th/5th paragraph of this post: https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-you-wanna-buy-just-bought-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/

 

I did run a jumper from the ground side of relay to battery ground and it now starts. I have not been able to find a wiring diagram for my truck 2005 tundra 4.7 double cab. Ill check out the link.. Thanks for the help.. Im getting closer for sure.

 

https://www.tundras.com/attachments/2005-tundra-ewd611u-pdf.543921/

https://www.tundras.com/threads/ultimate-tundra-wiring-diagrams-collection.81448/#post-2058879

 

Thanks for the links W666
From what I can see in the diagrams, keeping my jumper wire in place should not harm anything. Hopefully I can wait until it gets above freezing and the ice skating rink (my driveway) melts a bit before trying to chase down that open ground circuit.

 

No crank resolved..... but not solved. Just thought I would put this out there incase anyone else has this situation come up with first gen tundra 4.7 double cab 4x4. After hours of trouble shooting my no crank (and dies when shifting past neutral once I did get it started) fiasco this is what I came up with as a work around. I ended up discovering if I run a jumper wire from neg side of battery to left rear pin of the starter relay (looking down from above which is pin # 1 a believe), the truck starts normal with sign sw and will run and not die when shifting into or trying to shift past neutral. In one schematic, I found pin 1 is a ground.. In another schematic it says pin 1 is from ignorance sw through NS Switch (go figure). Using test probe it was clear to me pin 1 in my case was the ground side of the relay allowing complete circuit when relay is energized from key (which it was, thus eliminating ign sw as the culprit). Bench testing relay and swapping for another proved it too was closing and making contact when energized) but as soon as I reinstalled in truck no click from relay when trying to start. So made sense to me there was an open ground from relay to ground. According to one schematic that pin does indeed go to a splice with one leg going directly to ground and the other leg going to TVIP (T13). Thats as far as I have gotten. At least it starts and is drivable. I just hope I am not going to bugger up anything using that jumper wire. In two days I need to start my annual 100 hour drive from Massachusetts to Baja, Mexico. Gonna be crossing fingers, toes and anything else I can manage.

 

If you ever figure out what it is in the future, please let us know.

TVIP is the factory alarm. I also see you have a DC. The symptoms you have above (dies after putting in drive, start is not working) suggest that the alarm is actually immobilizing the vehicle. I'm sorry, I missed you have a DC, or I would've thought of this sooner. Let me ask: Do you have another factory key you can test out, in case this is a problem of you getting immobilized because ... old/bad key? Any dealership can cut you a new key if you have your VIN# and proof you own the truck, and it's usually not a high cost, I don't think. Although if it's an immob key, maybe it's more $$, I dunno. I assume they may need to program something somehow.

EDIT: I also thought whenever vehicles get immob'd, they would set a code suggesting it to be the case ... did you scan for codes? I also didn't think TVIP had an immob function, I thought only DC whose alarm functions were controlled by BCM had immob. But I cannot confirm it's the case, I don't have that knowledge.

 

One last question to everyone......The last few sentences I posted above got me to thinking (better late than never right?). My OEM fob has buttons for electric door locks and what I assume is just a panic button (little red square on fob)... Can anyone tell me if that panic button goes to an ignition lock out that would kill the start function. I have had the truck since 2008 and never set off any alarms or ever seen any signs of an alarm (OEM or after market) so I seriously doubt it has an alarm system unless it came factory and is hidden somewhere. Just a thought.

 

As mentioned in my last post, your truck has OEM alarm system. It'll either be TVIP or it's controlled thru the BCM.

Do you have another factory key you can test with?

I believe the TVIP module is up under the dash, maybe just inside the center dash area to the upper right of the gas pedal. I can link you up with a thread that shows the general location with a picture, I think.

 

TVIP = Toyota Vehicle Intrusion Protection (IIRC)

 

Shifty... Thanks for the reply.. It must have come in while I was typing my last post. It sure does seem like an immobilizer.. It never even occurred to me to consider it since I have had the truck so long and never had any kind of alarm go off...I think I will contact the dealer and see if they can run the vin to tell me that. My keys are just plain old blanks on a fob.. No chip as far as I know.. But man it sure does seem like an immobilizer. My VW Synchro 4x4 that I use is Africa for lion research has one.. Learned that the hard way when 300kms into the bush I decide to open the driver door with the engine running.. Instantly killed the motor and locked me out..Man.. what a nightmare to get past that with 400 pound lions standing around.

 

About the codes.. I did check codes and had cam shaft sensor codes (345 and 340 and O2 sensor codes) Installed 4 new OEM O2s yesterday (has em on the shelf so may as well) and cleared codes and cam codes went away as well as O2s. SO far nothing has come back for codes. Another little tidbit of info. I parked the truck (indoors) for 5 months while in Africa. Was fine when I parked it and a No crank nightmare when I came back. So something happened on its own while sitting. Mouse chewed wire? Didn't find any droppings or wires chewed but in New England in fall its always a possibility.

 

Also about the TVIP idea.. I only mentioned that because on a schematic it showed a wire from starter relay going to TVIP or clutch switch (depending Automatic or standard shift). I have automatic.. But I have a double cab and the schematics all say access and standard cab so I am not 100% sure of all that I am looking at on the page. I never found schematic for starter side of stuff that is specific to Double cab. Was hoping it was same as access.

 

The EWD is broken out into sections, IIRC. Like, it shows all the schematics for the AC/RC trucks, then later in the doc it shows all for the DC trucks.

It's been a minute since I've looked at one, though. And I've noticed variations. But this is similar to the FSM, which shows the V6 stuff first, then later in the doc, it shows the V8 stuff.

You may just need to scroll farther into the doc to find info for your DC. Wiring does vary quite a bit between the DC and RC/AC

 

Ok.. Thats good to know about the differences in DC and RC/AC trucks....I had the dealer print out a complete info sheet of the truck according to VIN and nothing came up on that sheet as far as alarms/immobilizers.. But maybe its just standard on all trucks and it's just not listed? Yet to find out of I even DO have one. At this point I am so late getting to Mexico I have to just go with the work around and hope for the best. At least I have 3,000 miles of "test" driving to see if I fry anything. Better to do that north of the border for sure. I did drive 50 miles today and still no codes and seems to run fine. So time will tell. Once I get to sunny Baja I will be far more inclined to crawl around and dig deeper into the dash and other areas trying to find an immobilizer or other fault. Really appreciate all your help. If you happen to hear / think of anything else that I might try to find that actual fault please do reach out.

 

@pangolin did you make it to Mexico? How is the truck? I’ve been following this thread as I’m having the same issue with my 2000 limited Access Cab. Have you had any inspiration in a solution?

thanks!

 

@pangolin Re: your post #16 .... start relay pin #1 grounded, or pin #1 goes through ign switch and neutral switch (presumedly then to ground?). So, having already replaced neutral switch to no avail, do you possibly have a bad ignition switch (not grounding the relay through the neutral switch)? Also something in a bad ignition switch possibly shorting ignition to ground where it shouldn't, causing the engine kill when passing shift lever through neutral.

Then if not the ign switch itself, possibly shorted wires in the wire bundle going to the ignition switch (or, as you mentioned, possible rodent vandals elsewhere in the harness).

 

I'm having the same problem!
2006 Tundra DC SR5 4.7L

It will start fine for two weeks then randomly won't start
Everything gets power but it won't crank. (most of the time)
Every once and a while it will crank but won't fire(happened once after I went to a wand wash) I did not spray the engine bay.
I'm guessing there is a short somewhere in the fuel pump/starter circuit.

replaced starter 2x
replaced starter relay
replaced ignition switch
replaced battery wires
replaced battery terminals
replaced battery
cleaned all grounds
checked ecu and fuse box for water
checked four times for parasitic drain
checked Crank position sensor
replaced under hood fuse box
cleaned up all wiring. removed all aftermarket lights/audio
removed aftermarket remote start
tried different key when it wouldn't start.
truck would start when jumping the starter relay...

All this work has been done by a mechanic's shop. the owner of the shop has done all the work himself(30 plus years of experience)
It is an intermittent problem. It will work for a couple of weeks then lately it has been dead in the morning in a heated garage. I picked it up friday from the shop and the battery was completely fried, 6CCA and wouldn't hold a charge. Unfortunately it sat outside in -30C temps and it killed the already weak battery. I replaced the battery 1 year ago when I started looking into this problem then replaced it under warranty 6 months ago and replaced it again this week. The first two were Interstate. This time I went with an AC Delco.

I ordered a battery tested and a new multimeter today so I can try to track down the problem.

 

Possibly neutral/park safety switch?

Otherwise, maybe a wire pinched somewhere?

Or there is that thing another member reported about one of the coolant temp sensors being unplugged causing no-start after doing his timing belt. I assume the '05-'06 is same as earlier models, where there are two temp sensors, one for ECU, one for dash gauge. On earlier models, both are on the passenger side of the throttle body, on later models IIRC, one is next to the throttle body and the other is on the driver's side of the intake manifold? Basically dude was doing his timing belt and forgot to (or didn't fully) plug in the one the ECU uses, and truck wouldn't start because ECU was unable to read temperature of the engine.

 

When it won't crank i'll try to start it in neutral and slam the shifter up and down a few times to get something to engage. It doesn't help. Would this rule out the neutral/park safety switch?

i'll check that sensor