General Supercharger Thread

That is sweet!

 

Wow, talk about opportunities aligning!

 

Maybe I should elaborate, there was a bracket that was supplied allowing the continued use of the original tank. It's flat and very simple compared to the 3D one that was part of the 1900's kit.

 

The People's Champ.

 

Hey folks, need some help here with troubleshooting ...

Here's the sitch: Going through some tuning with a recent supercharger install; tuner identified that the truck (2019 CM SR5) randomly goes full rich - but only when operating at a steady-state condition (load, maf, throttle are fairly consistent). And, that the short-term fuel trims suggest that a leak is occurring somewhere after the air mass sensor and before the cylinder heads (double-digit negative values). It happens fairly consistently after the engine comes down after a spike in RPMs. No codes are present. Tuner suggests that a leak is somewhere after the MAF and before the cylinder heads.

Here's my setup (the relevant parts):
- Magnuson TVS1900 (with 2.0 pulley)
- TRD airbox
- prospeed fuel rails & lines
- walbro 450 pump
- aeromatics FPR
- DW650 injectors

All hose connections are tight. My next step was to do some leak tests... maybe using propane.

Thoughts? Ideas? TI

 

Propane or carb cleaner are your friend. If that doesn't work you can smoke test the intake side, but certainly sounds like a vacuum leak issue.

 

Maybe I'm just tired and not thinking well, but I would expect a vacuum leak to cause a lean out as the truck gets more air than the MAF is reading. Can you walk us through the installation? Did you do the work? Did you pull the snout to do the pulley? Is it a new supercharger or a used unit? Are you using the stock throttle body? Did you pull the snout to do the coupler? Did the injectors come with new seals or did you have to swap over the black donut seals at the bottom of the injector? Did you clean out the injector bores before installing them? Might help point to a possible issue zone.

@Mdl had some issues recently after installing a pulley and other things, and his gasket between the top of the snout with the bypass valve and the blower body got pinched of all things. He did a bunch of testing but none of it revealed the issue until he ended up back tracking through the install far enough to where he found the issue. Maybe doing some leak testing will help, but in the same stroke I would take it with a grain of salt if it doesn't reveal anything since that doesn't mean there's not an issue.

And to throw some more data at you, this was @Mdl log from his issue:



As opposed to being fixed:



This is not to say you don't have a vacuum leak, that'd certainly be the most likely issue, but as you can see from this vacuum leak the AFR was bouncing all around but the truck was trying to maintain it around the 1.0 EQ. Additionally the MAF voltage/flow rate are extremely jagged (possibly due to the air source bouncing from the vacuum leak to the MAF and the path of least resistance changing rapidly?). Contrast that to your AFR which is extremely jagged, but your MAF is smooth, and then just a complete random plunge to full rich despite the MAF staying smooth. I don't know, call me skeptical. My brain leans towards injector stuck open... but take that with a grain of salt too, I'm just throwing ideas and information at you to get your mind turning.

 

Appreciate the out of the box thinking!

The install is a bit of a saga ...

Got the s/c kit used, and installed it in stages. I did the work upfront, including pulley installation (I have your speedshop hub/pulley setup, btw). I did not pull the snout for the install - just did a heat up of the hub and slid it on. The first stage was just the new airbox and the s/c (plus intercooler, etc.) ... but, I did a super dumb thing and drove it without a proper tune... blew the engine. Ran out of time to replace it on my own, so I had toyota put in a new one, and they also reinstalled the s/c. Everything was working fine when I left the dealership.

After I got it home I went to the next stage: fuel pump, lines and rails. everything looked ok. But, that was just an idle test.

Then went to install the injectors (750s) ... those had major issues, so I replaced them with DW650s. The 650s came with bottom donuts, but I had leaks at the top o-rings, so I replaced those with the o-rings from the previous stock injectors. Also completely cleaned out the injector seats/bore holes prior to install. All rubber parts got lubricated with engine oil prior to install.

I feel like I did the injector install correctly ... but what you're suggesting makes sense. Then again, this is my first s/c install and I don't know shit lol.

 

Wow that is quite the saga! I was figuring you had one of my pulleys! Where do you live/elevation are you at out of curiosity?

Well that's good there's at least a baseline: the truck ran good leaving the dealership. To clarify your timeline post-dealership, it was running fine, you were NOT tuned at that point still? And you did the injectors and tune at the same time? Did you touch anything besides the injectors when you swapped them out? ie between the dealership running fine and now, the ONLY thing that's been touched is the injectors and the tune?

 

Thanks to @armyoffoo for pushing the ability to get an LS throttle body to work. If it continues to work well I'll be moving to the LS103. So if anyone is looking for a RCF throttle body let me know.

 

I'm out in Colorado, just south of Denver.

SO, yeah - more clarity ... Post dealership, I did get a tune loaded into the truck. But, that was a very preliminary tune. Just enough to get the truck home to do the fuel system upgrades. As each component was installed, a new tune was uploaded, logs taken, etc. After the dealership:

- replaced fuel pump, lines and rails. Then did a tune/logs. At this point stock injectors where used. The idle log was fine.
- Then I added the used 750s ... after a few iterations of tunes/logs...all idle logs... they were found to be faulty.
- replaced the 750s with new 650s, then started the new tunes/logs. This time, went from idle log to drive tests. This is where the new issue has come up.

 

Did you get any driving logs prior to the injectors? It sounds like the stock injectors and the 650s were both fine at idle, but you don't know if the stock ones were behaving any differently driving since you never got a driving log of the stock ones, is that true? I'm just trying to figure out if you have a guaranteed "everything was working fine" datalog from some point. If you drove with the stock injectors and had a datalog that it was fine, then I would tend to think the new injectors have an issue or were installed wrong. But if you don't have a datalog of driving with the stock injectors, then for all we know this issue has happened since day 1 so it could be any number of things, for all we know Toyota messed something up installing it and it has always done this full rich blip without you knowing it.

 

Side questions. What are the dangers of going full rich like this? Lean outs can cause the piston ring failures and holes in the cylinder walls from being too hot. What happens with Rich conditions?

 

yup - you're spot on. No drive test with the stock injectors.

I think what I'll do - since the 650s are in right now - is perform a leak test with propane. If that doesn't indicate a problem, I'll revert back to the stock injectors and do a drive test. If the issue persists, I might have another issue - perhaps the dealership needs to fix. the new engine and the s/c install work is all under warranty.

 

Cats are unhappy and fuel dilution of the engine oil possible?

 

I'm no expert, but nothing really unless it gets insanely rich. You could have the plugs foul but that'd be from an extended period. If you dumped a metric assload of fuel then you could hydrolock a cylinder but that'd be a LOT of fuel. It's the same thing as flooding a carbureted engine, it'll eventually choke and not want to run but it's not like it'll have a catastrophic failure at any normal level. This isn't to say it's good obviously, but I wouldn't be worried about driving it though it should get fixed. My FJ40 has a Holley EFI setup and I'm too lazy to dial it in, and when it's cold out it'll dump fuel the same way so it's at like 8 or 9:1 AFR. It runs absolutely fine and then leans itself back out, I have no concerns with it. If it fully flooded the engine to the point it stalled, that's when it's bad in my opinion. A little extra fuel might not be ideal but isn't gonna hurt anything.

 

Indeed, that's what I'd recommend. I would check the throttle body connections, check the PCV and triple barb connection coming off the blower (those are vacuum lines to the blower), make sure all those lines look intact and hooked up well, and then swap injectors if none of that seems to be an issue (you'll need a revised tune for that). At least by swapping injectors you'll isolate if the injectors and how they mount is an issue or not. If that doesn't change anything then there's probably a messed up seal somewhere.

@M3Tundra-JK did he buy your blower?

 

Winner! Yes, he bought my s/c. We've been communicating on the side about all this as well. But you guys have much more knowledge than I do!

 

I was searching through my orders trying to figure out who would've bought a 2.0" that wasn't on the forum, then when he said Colorado that confirmed my suspicion that it was the pulley you had bought!

 

@Grenades4Bacon what is your fuel pressure set at? 43psi and around 58psi for boost reference?

 

FPR is set at 43.5, and no boost reference yet ... hadn't gotten to that point in the tune

 

The boost port on the s/c is capped though, yes?

 

My first full Blackstone report came, I went 447 over my normal 5k change & got TBN as requested.

Amsoil 0-20 is the oil.

 

which oil is that?

 

More suspension than boost but @reywcms should get his truck fully sorted and run it.

https://youtu.be/uSM_ITNzbmg?feature=shared

 

little too much sauce on that first jump

 

Glad no one was killed. That drone shot of the red jeep crash was pretty epic.

 

That's has frame damage written all over it. Like the famous Gen1 Raptor trip where a couple trucks ended up with bent frames from jumping.

 

Amsoil 0-20, adding that to the post.

 

My jk already has frame damage, point me to this hill lol

But seriously I would never do that in my jeep, that's crazy!

Besides, the 3.8 and stock gears wouldn't get me going that fast for a jump anyways