I still don't get the Hybrid advantage?

yeah the wife if contemplating this situation also. she wants to downgrade from the tundra to the tacoma to be able to fit in the garage again. as she is getting older the winters are getting to her with cleaning off the tundra of snow during our winters. plus with the 2024 tacoma limited now coming in full time 4wd and with the new engine (i-FORCE MAX hybrid powertrain with 326 net combined HP and 465 lb-ft of torque) being comparable to the Non HV tundra, its pushing me (us) to move down. as long as the limited tacoma has the same creature comforts as the tundra (minus the seating breathing room) its going to be hard not to move back to tacoma.

 

If you don't need the 1/2 ton tow rating, the Tacoma is just easier to live with, and I'm in the 3rd gen that isn't any kind of powerful or fancy for tech features. It's still the most luxurious vehicle I've ever owned, but I doubt it compares to the new Tundra features.

 

the new tacoma is suppose to mirror the features of the tundra now. the only issue is the seating spacing. the tacoma's have always had cramped seating positions and moving to a tundra was like a breath of fresh air of how much elbow room you get in the tundra compared to the tacoma.

from what i know the new tacoma (depending on trim) will have the same features as our platinum. heated seats, steering wheel, digital mirror, electric seats (finally), hud (i think), better tailgate release (powered and switch on both sides)

have to remember that the tacoma is one of toyota's cash cows as far as sales along with the rav4. tacoma's sell 2 to 1 vs tundra on average, sometimes better per month

 

Yup, aware of all that. I actually passed on a Taco the first time around in 2019 because of the lack of a power seat, but they added it in 2020 for the driver side. Not sure I'd want the digital mirror, but I have enjoyed my heated seats. In Chloe Kuo's video of the 2024 Tacoma TRD Off Road Premium I did see that they added an integrated trailer brake controller and it had ventilated seats as well. I'm not a fan of the interior design language or the small displacement turbo engine, but if I were to get T-boned by some asshat in the next few years I would likely have to suck it up and get a 4th gen Tacoma.

 

No, it doesn't. I already disproved your statement in the other thread. Quit spreading uneducated, misinformation. Hybrid Tundras have MORE towing capacity and less payload capacity than the non-hybrid. Have your facts straight before calling people out. You just lose credibility.

Over-exaggeration on the impact the hybrid has in this application.
"Cold weather effects can vary by vehicle model. However, expect conventional gasoline vehicles to suffer a 10% to 20% fuel economy loss in city driving and a 15% to 33% loss on short trips.
For hybrids, fuel economy typically decreases by 20% to 40% in city driving and 25% to 45% on short trips.
When the cabin heater is not used, EV fuel economy is 8% lower at 20°F than at 75°F. Driving range is about 12% lower."
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml

Considering the battery is solely used for engine power and not to heat/ cool the cabin for the hybrid Tundra, the last statement would apply. However, I don't live in a place that gets down to 20deg F. So, it's a fairly moot point for me.

Regarding EV/ hybrids in hot weather:
"The U.S. Department of Energy has stated that hot weather can actually increase your vehicle’s MPG.
The engine warms up to an efficient temperature faster, summer grades of gasoline have more energy, and warm air causes less aerodynamic drag than cold air. Drivers will see a decrease in fuel economy due to comfort-seeking measures, such as driving with the windows down or AC use."
https://www.thehybridgeek.com/hybrid-performance-during-summer/

So, hybrid owners living in moderate temperatures would see even less of a negative impact to fuel economy and driving range.

 

I didn't even know about that comment. He's been on my ignore list for a while apparently, and I don't even remember why.

 

hey @GODZILLA did you see this video on the 2024 tacoma from the chief engineer ? 1700 rpm to 4200 rpm for the torque range?

lots of good info in that video

https://youtu.be/rpS1HoA1R4g?si=kbQOj5aHZq9efl9r

 

I have not. I kind of checked out once the power train was released. I love my truck and have no plans to change it unless forced to through it being totaled.

 

Boosted? Regular cab short bed?

Or is it just the lack of nannies and Toyota safety sense?

 

after this video, i think we are at about 70% sure switching back to a tacoma. the interior features are even with our 2023 platinum currently. bonus that its now has full time 4wd. once i saw TRD Jon video that its not chrome (more like aluminum finish outside the door handles and mirror caps) on the grille. looks like they fixed the seat height issue by raising the mounts by 30 mm, extended the tilt/telescope on the steering wheel, increase the width by 3 inches but kept the overall length the same so as a compact truck it will still fit in a garage.

hud, digital mid, 14in center stack screen, auto running boards (funny how the wife likes them now instead of the static ones), heated steering wheel and seats. pretty much all the great features we had on our 23 tundra platinum but in a tacoma that can fit in the garage now.

just have to wait until year 2 of production of the new tacoma and get actual seat time in the new one before jumping ship.

 

the real reason, bragging rights. I smoked a GMC 6.2 liter off the line in my Hybrid limited and pulled consistently throughout the whole range to 70-80mph. Almost 600 ft lbs of torque is nothing to sneeze at, and the Toyota is legit with the Hybrid system. Oh and the GMC driver gave me the finger as he flew by when he turned off. Let's face it, the Hybrid system moves the truck much faster than without it and it is an obvious difference. In sport mode rear end wants to slide in wet weather with little throttle modulation. I have heard that in sport mode it is as fast as the v6 Raptor in a straight line.

Is Hybrid worth it, yes it is if you want the beast of the Toyota Tundra and need it.

 

I found this technical review very interesting. Basically Toyota went the MORE POWER route for the truck rather than the more MPG route people associate to the term hybrid. If you don't tow you really don't need it other than if you like to accelerate hard. Yes we like MORE POWER!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKRlBoj0s7E


Here is the hybrid specific review....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkXiYiGWZnE

 

Ah, it sounds like you guys want some of tge things that are major turn offs for me. I hate the giant screen, and that it's tacked into any truck with leather.

So long as you don't need the towing, it sounds like the Taco is perfect for your family needs.

 

DC standard bed.

It’s the latter. The gen 2s are just geared differently.

 

we dont need the towing on the tundra or when we had our 2012, 2016 tacoma. we just wanted the breathing room the tundra gives us in the front and rear seat area for trips (the whole family (4) drove 1700 miles to ga to see grandma), and for the dogs when the wife went pheasant hunting. but she hasnt gone hunting for quite a few years now and once the 2 gsp dogs pass, we are done with pets. but the winters here are taking its toll on the wife on having the tundra park outside all the time and the snow cleaning is getting to her. at least the tacoma can fit in the garage, where the tundra is about 12-18in short.


the tundra crew cab 5.5ft bed overall length is at 233in vs the tacoma double cab 5ft bed at 213in overall length

luckily the 2016 double cab 5ft tacoma we had fit in the garage and the 2024 tacoma has the same overall length in the same configuration

 

Understood. I’ve never driven one, but I’ve heard that your normal mode is like my tow/haul mode with the nannies off.

 

Pretty much, but it also has a tow/haul mode.

 

Why does it have to come with the ugly badge on the hood. Will say if you have driven a RAV 4 hybrid Prime , over a regular, non hybrid they power difference is night and day. Noticed that the dealerships around here (Richmond VA) are starting to get loaded up with tundras now, they just can't get rid of them. They are asking for my 2021 every time I turn, sight unseen offers.

 

Can verify. Pretty sure it was all in the fuel maps and throttle response. My 2011 CM 5.7 would whip your head back into the headrest with the lightest tap of the gas pedal. Too many pansy 2nd Gen owners whined about it and sure enough, both my 2015 and 2021 felt/feel like slugs in comparison. My advise was to learn to feather the pedal and learn a little coordination, but, people suck at everything and want products that help the inept survive easier (which I'm against).
Same drivetrain, same gearing, etc. they just pussified the tuning.
My 2011 felt like my 2021 does with the pedal commander set on sport+.
The seats where also more comfy in the 2nd gen and the CM rear seat config was way better. Something else they fucked up to cater to idiots.
K, I'm done.

 

Actually, I wouldn't go by the web site. It has been shown that those numbers for payload are bogus. Instead, go by the ratings in the manual, which have been shown to match the actual labels on the trucks. if you do then the HV is typically better in both compared to its gas only counterpart but depends on the model. I took the liberty of summarizing in chart form based on the 2023 manual.

Payload capacity of all 2023 Tundra combinations


Since the HV is only available in CrewMax and only down to Limited trim we can narrow the chart


Similarly for towing. Here are all of them.


Narrowed down


In tabular form comparing the common specs directly we get:


You can see that the majority of HV models have better tow ratings and a little less than half of the HV have better payload compared to their gasoline only twins. Based on this I think it is safe to say that the HV system gives no penalty in performance. To the contrary it is an improvement.

Among the other aspects already stated, related to power and towing I would also say the added weight of the HV models helps towing as well. The heavier the tow vehicle relative to the item being towed the better and more stable the ride. So as others have said, I think for towing the HV makes sense and would be an advantage. Otherwise it is more subjective and dependent on what you want and what you intend to use it for.

For me I have found the gas mileage to be fantastic. Of course I don't have a non HV to compare to directly but so far after 10,000 km (6,000 miles) I am averaging 12.3 L/100km (19.1 mpg) and this is based on the display, which I have found to be off. My direct calculation based on km driven and gasoline pumped I am actually at 11.8 L/100km (20 mpg). Compared to my 2020 5.7 this is more than a 50% improvement! Perhaps I would get similar with just the gas only model but I got the HV for towing.

 

For those who care I made a quick video showing how the hybrid assist (blue bar) kicks into get the engine awakes from a EV slumber and turbos spooled up (bar right to the left of blue hybrid gauge) during a quick stab at the throttle from 25 mph. As you can see in the video the turbo's don't hit full boost until at least a second after full throttle, but the electric assist makes it feel like almost instant throttle response.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6plx_DIpxd8

 

This seems like an excuse. Why in the world could you not get both?

 

Thats because Toyota artificially limits the GVWR of the non-hybrid trucks by a good amount. If they just gave them all the same GVWR then we would see non-hybrids with 600 lbs more payload. It seems kind of silly to me that they do it that way.

 

This is great! Thanks!

 

An extra 100# of torque is not marginal.

 

I love the soundtrack

All kidding aside, that thing is fast!

 

Because unicorns don't exist and you can't have your cake and eat it too.

My guess is that it's about space for a bigger system and the added weight taking away the capability of the vehicle as a truck. People already complain that the payload and towing, so sacrificing that for a hybrid tilted toward MPGs would be a non starter.

Everyone wants to point at the RAV4 Prime. So, let's play that comparison out.

First, the aerodynamics and weight are so incomparable it's comical. You want a unibody construction with no ground clearance and the looks of a Honda Ridgeline? You'll lose all the capability of a full size truck going this route.

Second, the Prime is a plug in hybrid. The vehicle system can't charge it effectively enough during normal driving so it needs to be plugged in. That's fine for a general use in a commuter, but for a truck that is ostensibly meant for working and towing it is going to mean that the system will be depleted more quickly by the heavier workload. Even empty the heavier truck with its brick aeros is going to eat that capacity quicker than the little CUV. So even if they went with the prime system, as was suggested earlier in the thread, you still won't get the 5-10 miles on pure electric power once you stuff it into a truck. Couple that with the fact that when discharged, you'll be hauling the heavier weight of the higher capacity system without being able to effectively charge it unless you're keen on plugging in somewhere on the route.

It's a game of diminishing returns. Its the same reason that rifles only have barrels that are just sooo long, because you do get more velocity increasing the length but it isn't without a cost. That's why there aren't 45" barrel hunting rifles. Diminishing returns. Trying to gain one thing you start causing problems for another, so trying to net maximum power and maximum fuel efficiency is a losing strategy. You'll wind up with neither.

The best bet for what you want is that Dodge strategy of an electric truck with an onboard generator using fuel to essentially charge an EV on the go and push the range over 600 miles. That seems like the best "hybrid" strategy to me, but it's going to be heavy as hell and I don't exactly trust any of the big three to be innovative and reliable.

 

yeah the dodge setup is ideal, the v6 pentastar (dont get started on that pos engine as it is) is only there to charge the battery and cannot drive the vehicle at all. only the electric motors can drive the vehicle. but thats brings up another issue that if the engine or battery system has an issue, you are up shit creek twice as easy since you have 2 major failure points.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't look to the big three to pull it off well. I just imagine if Toyota were to take that approach to an EV. If you could plug it in to charge just like current EVs but also had the supplemental engine to charge on the go, I could see it being pretty great. An issue with the ICE would only decrease your range and it would then just function like any other plug in EV. That'd be my thoughts at least.

 

Well stated. The other fact that most people overlook when talking electric and range is speed vs. rate of consumption.

Get your vehicle going down the highway on a road trip. Set the cruise at 78 mph and enjoy. I recently tried to do this in a rented Tesla Model Y. I had a 270 mile trip and the vehicle had a published range of 330. I should be good...... or not. That 330 miles is published at 30 to 60 mph.

At 78mph, that Model Y consumes 384 Wh/mile vs. the 245ish that are needed to get 330 miles out of a charge. That will only get me a 200 mile range! Realistically that is 180 because you never start at 100% and you can't drive to 0%. Now, factor in spacing between Tesla Superchargers. I am stoping every 100 miles or so. What should have been a 4.5 hour road trip turned into 6 hours plus another hour to top off my battery when I got there. Then, they charged me $0.36 to $0.39 per kWh. That works out to about $0.16 per mile in electric. It would have been less expensive for me to drive a 25mpg gas car.

I did a little digging on the internet and confirmed that the Model Y that I had was on par with others. Aerodynamics, drag and speed apply to electric cars too Speed = Energy and it is a speed to the third power situation.

A hybrid would have been great in this situation. But please keep the engine connected directly to the wheels!