Is my carrier bearing bad?

Hey guys,

My truck has a shudder/groan when taking off from a stop, especially when turning. I've already lubed all the driveshaft zerks. I replaced alot in the front end where I thought it was but now I'm thinking it may be the carrier bearing. I took this video, do you think carrier bearing has too much slop?

https://youtu.be/YAaPwO7jEVg


It's a 05 DC 4WD with 240k, just got the truck recently so I'm not sure how much slop it should have. The rubber I can see on the bearing is cracked in a few places.

Also is this a part that requires OEM or is a Rock Auto part good enough?

 

You sure it’s not diff chatter?

You have LSD rear end? (Look for sticker by the fill plug)

Spicer is OEM (edit: carrier) but tell me more symptoms because nothing you’ve told me thus far is even remotely the carrier bearing at fault.

That video doesn’t show excessive play. Some play is normal.

 

Yep, my money is also on the diff having incorrect oil. Mine did that when I first got it, and stopped immediately when I changed out the dif oil with LSD-spec. Hopefully its that quick and simple for you, too.
Since the truck is new to you, freshening up all fluids is always a good idea anyway, just to get everything to a baseline

 

Hey guys, I did replaced the LSD fluid already with this https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...oil-80w-90-1-gallon/luc0/10046?q=80w-90&pos=1

It says it specifically has the LSD additive in it. I suppose I could add additional additive if you think it'll help.

Is there a way to test the carrier bearing? Maybe remove it and bench spin it?

 

I know WHAT diff chatter is but I've never owned a vehicle with a LSD is so I'm unsure what normal vs non-normal noises are.

The thing that bothers me is it really sounds/feels like the noise isn't coming from the back.

 

Won’t hurt to add more LSD additive. Hight help.
If you’re going to go to the trouble of removing the carrier, just replace it with OEM or Spicer. They’re not expensive.

 

I'll add more LSD additive this week and reassess.

Spicer looks to be $73 from Rock Auto and OEM is $196 online https://parts.ourismantoyotaofrichm...9dHVuZHJhJnk9MjAwNSZ0PXNyNSZlPTQtN2wtdjgtZ2Fz

 

If you put Lucas 80w90 that should be sufficient as long as you’re sure that’s what you put. I wouldn’t add additive, it should not need it, there’s no point in adding lots of additive to your LSD or it won’t catch when you need it to.

But more concerning for me is that what you describe is not typically a carrier bearing symptom, and I’m worried you’re parts-cannoning, especially after saying you just did lots of front end work thinking that would fix this also. Not that there’s a huge issue with refreshing things but just … stop. Please.

What you are describing sounds more like diff, potentially brake, or maybe a u-joint to me, maybe. But that exact symptom - groaning/skipping at low speed accel, especially while turning, is classic diff chatter.

So let’s get back to the diff.

Are you 100% sure you changed the diff fluid properly, with proper amount? Describe how you changed it, how much fluid it took.

Are you sure there is still ample fluid in the diff?

 

And if you do change the carrier bearing, make sure you clock things correctly else you may make things worse.


But before you go there have you checked ANYTHING on the driveline, check for signs of bag u-joints, any of them? Jacked wheels, spun wheels, shafts, anything? Did you double check your diff fluid change?

 

Also have you checked the brakes, to make sure nothing is sticking? Fronts and rears (esp. rears) are adjusted properly? This isn’t a caliper hesitating to release, or rears adjusted too tight and causing actual skip when you take off? Rear braking adjustment is critical on 1st gens for proper behavior.

 

I'm 100% sure that's the fluid I put in it, I still have the remaining bit of the gallon in my garage.

The front end work that you say I'm just parts cannoning needed to be done. They were lower ball joints (unknown mileage) so replaced with OEM, shocks and struts were worn beyond belief and leaking like crazy so replaced with Bilstein 5100's, and the front brakes were worn badly and one front caliper had a sticking piston in it. I replaced the front brakes with a Powerstop kit and did new calipers. I also did new sway bar endlinks as when I got the truck they were both missing.

I still need to do CV's as both are leaking (spraying grease) and I don't know how long they have been so I don't just want to reboot.

I have checked for bad ujoints by grabbing the driveshafts at each joint and wiggling and don't see slop. I've replaced the front diff fluid, transfer case fluid, and rear diff fluid.

When replacing rear diff fluid it was level in my garage and I drained the pumpkin and then used a harbor freight pump bottle transfer pump hose kit to transfer the new fluid into the fill hole until it came out the fill hole. I checked the breather to make sure it was spinning freely. I think it took around 3.5 quarts. There's no leaking fluids on the truck at all. I don't believe the diff is losing fluid.

I did pull the rear brakes off when I got the truck and the rear shoes measured 5mm so I reassembled and lubed the bellcranks and adjusted them out. Ever since then I've been using the parking brake to keep it in adjustment. I also adjusted the lever on the rear pumpkin up a bit to give the rear more bias.

I don't think this noise is brake related at all. It COULD be CVs, or it COULD be control arm bushings I suppose. I had my wife drive with me outside the truck and hit the brakes hard while I watched the front tires, I didn't see any front to back movement like a bushing was bad and making slop in the wheel front to back.

When I say the noise is while turning it's not like it lasts through a full intersection. It's immediately as I start moving from a stop and lasts for a few feet at best. I've tried getting a video of it but it doesn't really show up on camera from the drivers seat. I've also had my wife drive circles around me in a parking lot to see if I could hear it outside and I couldn't.

 

Also here's a closer video of the bearing, sorry it was hard to hold the camera one handed but you can see the condition of the rubber in this one:

https://youtu.be/F2ncio7Nmmg

 

Even if that’s not the cause of the sounds you’re hearing, that sucker is old and tired, and replacing that with a fresh, tight part seems like a no brainer. Like I said, they’re cheap to replace.

 

Simple request then, for future cases: Just say that, versus "I did a bunch of front end work hoping it'd fix this..."

Not knocking you, only saying, "words matter", we all want to help solve the problem, but if you're giving a symptom that you haven't been able to fix, and saying other work was done with hopes the symptom would go away ... the expectation is (A) you don't know what is causing the symptom and (B) you threw parts at another thing you felt could maybe use it, hoping that was the cause of the symptom. This may be perspective or interpretation, so feel free to ignore what I'm saying, totally not important to solving the problem at hand.

That said ...

Ok, but here's why I'm challenging you on this.

The symptom you're pretty clearly describing IMO is "binding", specifically a type of binding most call "chatter" which is nearly impossible to pick up on camera, much less detect outside a vehicle (both of which are further symptoms of chatter, unique to chatter!!). If this was binding of a multi-directional joint (i.e. CV joint, universal joint), you'd hear audible clicking everywhere outside the car, just as much as inside.

Basically, in your case, you have something binding at low speed, and you've noted (unless I'm crazy) it's more noticeable while turning, and its almost like things are skipping/notching/clicking along. It makes sense: Binding is almost universally caused by things that need to move, but are failing to move, thus are skipping across something. i.e.

• Pads in the clutch pack of your LSD not slipping against each other because the lubrication you used is wrong, thus they're catching/skipping against each other, thus causing chatter.
• Rear drum's shoes too tight, thus catching/skipping against the drum instead of moving freely, thus causing chatter
• LSD is failing, unfortunately <-- If you've replaced the fluid with a non-synthetic Lucas 80w90 and it didn't help, you need to consider this is your likely problem, and do the necessary diagnostics to confirm if true or not
• Obviously, your CV axles can bind while turning also, but are likely to do it more than just at low speed in my experience, and the sound a binding CV or universal joint makes is pretty goddamn unique, more of a popping/clicking sound typical of any multi-directional joint that's binding up

But it's worth mentioning here ... The carrier bearing doesn't have a role in anything that would bind in the way your symptoms describe. Its main purpose is to "carry" the load of the driveshaft between the transfer case and rear diff. It has no role in turning, or what happens while turning, directly, and arguably indirectly.

That said, no doubt, your carrier bearing looks rough and it's cheap enough to replace, Spicer is OEM. But don't expect it to fix the binding symptom you're describing, and YSK, the amount of play you're showing is totally normal. IME over my lifetime, carrier bearings don't just "fail" ... instead, a u-joint fails, or driveshaft is out of balance, and the added play/slop/hop associated with that issue then tanks the carrier bearing, so if your carrier is toast, IMO you need to treat that as a secondary problem where, if you don't find and fix the primary problem that caused it, you'll be replacing your carrier bearing it again soon enough.

Whatever you do, follow the FSM when you do the work, you can download a copy of FSM via link over here, and also heed two warnings: (1) Don't install the bearing backwards, and (2) make sure everything is clocked properly.

The reason I'm riding you on this though, is because you're talking about a chatter issue in your symptoms presentation. Therefore, ideally to solve that problem, you need to limit your investigation to explicitly investigate things that are actually known to bind while accelerating at low speed, especially when turning, and create chatter which is virtually inaudible outside the vehicle! (i.e. LSD is your main suspect, drums are a very rare secondary source)

It's worth noting also, it's not unheard of for an LSD rear w/200k+ miles, that's seen a lot of work and maybe not enough love, to begin to go out. You could try additive to smooth things over, but you're only delaying the inevitable. Lucas conventional 80w90 is known to resolve chatter issues in our 1st gen LSDs, if that's what you used and it's not solving it ... I'll go out on a limb and say it's time to run through basic testing!

Grease sling is not a symptom or sign of CV failure, and is not a problem unless the CV boots are torn. There's a national shortage on OEM re-man CVs right now, so you may just want to re-clamp after packing in some new OEM grease (I can get the p/n if you need it), and you should know sling is normal if you opted to lift/level with the 5100s and sometimes just when refreshing overly-worn front end components. You should also know, Toyota OEM CVs don't just "fail", if you're NOT hearing no noises typical of CV problems, I wouldn't replace, wait until you do. CV axles are NOT a "preventative maintenance" part if you still have the OEM axles. And CVs are definitely one of those parts you want to stick with Toyota OEM on, don't screw around with aftermarket - this is something Toyota mechs echo repeatedly.

And no change in sending more bias to the rear? Are you sure the LSPV is functioning as it should, curious if you've tested for that?

Wait -- What is the logic on it being CVs? Bad CV typically sound off the 'click of death' while turning, the clicking is usually audible outside the car and is a definitive click noise, almost like metal on metal clacking sound. It's not a binding type of chattery noise. Does the chatter you're talking about happen while turning both directions, or only one? Does it happen in forward and reverse while turning? Does it ever happen while NOT turning significantly?

Woah, parts canon is loading up again!

Upper or lower? Either way, if your control arm bushings are bad, this should be blatantly obvious. If visual inspection doesn't out them, bad control arm bushings you can just pry things around until they smack with a pry bar. FYI, there's no way in hell you'd be able to keep in alignment if the LCA bushings were shot, and you'd be hearing it/feeling it if the uppers were shot. Put the parts canon away

Small edit: I'm on a lot of meds right now, it was a long night with above-average pain involved. So forgive any incoherence above, meandering, repeating, etc.

 

The slop in the carrier looks about normal. I replaced mine not too long ago and it probably has the same amount of play. Yours does look pretty worn, busted rubber and all, but the play isn't too worrisome.

What about u-joints? Have to checked those?

 

Hey all, I think I'm having the same issue as Carlsoncustoms on my 2004 SR5 I just bought with over 300k miles on the body (175k on engine/trans), so figured I'd chime in here rather than start a new thread. I've read through the comments so far and am going to change my fwd diff fluid first thing. But with mine, it has quickly gotten worse to the point that my side view mirrors literally shake as the shuttering occurs. And it is only when accelerating from stopped (or nearly stopped) with the wheels turned. A high pitched hum / whistle sound has even started accompanying the shuttering. I sure hope my LSD isn't failing . Sounds expensive. Any additional thoughts based on that description? Thanks all! Willing to describe/upload whatever, just not savvy enough to know what all I might need to provide for a better description. Never really worked on cars before buying this one

 

Uh ...

E-brake isn't on? Have you checked the fluid level to make sure you actually HAVE fluid? If you don't, stop driving, go to the store, get some Lucas 80w90 and fill er up. It sounds almost like you may be dry.

You should see some fluid dribble out when you remove the fill plug (top plug). If not, stop driving.

 

Dang you respond quickly on here haha. I appreciate it.
The E-brake isn't on, no. I have not checked the fluid level. I just watched a video on doing it a couple of days ago and will get the Lucas 80w90 and change it tonight. I'll update the thread with what I find. Thank you for the advice!

 

So I was able to find Lucas 75W90 synthetic. I have the fluid and am able to change tonight, but I'm slightly concerned because the manuals I've looked at say hypoid oil, and I saw Shifty' recommended non-synthetic oil earlier in this thread. I'm probably going to drain/fill with this tonight regardless of getting a response beforehand, but I'm curious to know if there's a reason why I should stay away from synthetic for the fwd diff.

 

You cannot use synthetic with the Toyota LSD, it just doesn't seem to work w/o chatter. There's only one brand I've seen people mention that will work with our LSD, and it was one of the Amsoil 'severe gear' products. But after my experience with using a well-regarded synthetic I've used in other posi rears, Mobil1, and even adding a bunch of slip additive, I'll never try it again. I ignored everyone on here telling me not to go there.

Motul 90w and Lucas 80w90 will work, confirmed by more than one person. My local Advance Auto Parts carries the Lucas.

 

Wait. I just noticed your last two words, "fwd diff". What are you saying, unabbreviated?

 

Dang what a legend. I haven't opened the synthetic stuff because I saw your post in time. I ended up going back to a different shop and picking up a couple quarts of valvoline 75W90 that is non synthetic and says it's meant for hypoid gears.

I was abbreviating for forward differential. Hopefully that was the answer that makes you go "whew, good" lol.

 

Front diff full synth is fine (I'm running it w/o issues)
Rear diff, if LSD, full synth is not OK.
Transfer case, full synth is, apparently, fine (I'm running it w/o issues)

 

Holy hell. I changed the fluid. I'm gonna estimate 0.75 qts of black sludge came out. Filled her up with the new gear oil and my issue was completely gone. Literally can't believe how much difference that made. Thanks for the help, you're a legend. I'll probably do rear diff and transfer case next after seeing those results

 

That's no bueno. It's not related, but do you know if your rear diff vent breather is OK, working? It's the little stubby thing at 11 o'clock on the round part of the pumpkin housing when looking from the bumper. I mean, you'd blow fluid out your wheel seals before anywhere else.

Meanwhile, did you confirm the same amount of fluid came out as you put back in? Just so we know if it was low.

 

I haven't even looked at it yet to be honest. And I was today years old when I learned that there was a vent breather in the rear diff. I'll probably spend some of this weekend getting more familiar with the components and doing some more fluid drain/fills.

And I haven't measured what came out yet. It drained straight into a drain pan. I'll decant it into something to measure it this week while I figure out where I can take it for disposal. It miiight have been close to a quart that came out. But definitely less than what went back in. Wasn't leaking from either bolt though, they were dry and covered in dirt when I got under it.

 

Every major chain auto parts store has a drain bin for oil. Dump the dregs into your old bottles to make it easier to carry in.

 

Yeah I'll do that. I just have engine oil, diff oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, and coolant, plus a mystery bucket that has a little bit of everything in it lol. I don't think most places takes stuff like coolant do they?

 

In your list you have three distinct categories:

Oils (oil, gear oil, trans oil)
Brake fluid (but dot3, so glycol base IIRC)
Coolant

Obviously for the oils you can mix those all together, dispose at your LAPS (AutoZone, Advance Auto, etc.) but call to confirm they have a disposal bin first. They should.

For Coolant, you probably have a place to recycle it. Don’t pour it down the drain, especially if you have septic, you're just dumping it into the groundwater, there’s a reason we’re getting stupider, because stupid people do stupid shit like tainting our ground water with stuff like coolant. Google “recycle antifreeze CITYNAME” and you may find a hazardous waste recycle place in your city, I’ve lived in a couple of small towns in TX, FL and GA that all had similar.

For DOT3/DOT4, if there’s no toxic recycles place, hit the internet for disposal methods. In a pinch, I usually just mix it in kitty litter and let it dry, then toss it.

Why do I care what you do and that you do it right?

My reality is, I’m a lifelong angler. I’ve watched over more than 45yrs of fishing I can distinctly remember (there’s some early years that are fuzzy), as the quality of our lakes and streams has degraded, so has the quality of our fish. Since I was a kid, I’ve cut open what I eat. Ive noticed these past couple decades, the number of parasites and other shit I’m seeing in my catches has been gradually getting worse. I suspect it has a hell of a lot to do with dumbasses disposing of stuff wrong, medications, chemicals, fertilizers, industrial pollution that goes unchecked, etc. We’re fucking up our waters and soil, and I believe I’m seeing the signs of it in my catches. I’m mostly catch and release at this point, unless I’m high enough up and/or my catches aren’t showing signs of being sick.

But all that to say: Be responsible, don’t be a dick. Everyone who ignored the environment during my lifetime has basically robbed me of the ability to enjoy the same stuff with my kids I enjoyed with my parents as a kid, and I gotta be honest: I’m kinda pissed about that.

 

+1 Shifty’. I launch on the Wateree and Congaree Rivers and they have signs recommending not eating certain species and limiting amounts of others due to mercury and other toxin accumulations in our fish. Around here in SC, oil can be recycled at flaps and county recycle locations. Coolant is only accepted a one location. The flaps actually tell people to flush it down toilet (sigh). And we have an Air Base with TCE, MOGAS and PFAS plumes extending beyond their fence line.