Newbie with no start

Hi all, figured I'd introduce myself and ask for help with my issue(s) in one thread.

2002 SR5 AC 4x4 4.7 V8

Cranks but won't start. Has been very reliable, up until now, for the year and a half that I've owned it.

I don't have a code scanner yet, I welcome recommendations as it's past time that I get one, and maybe a multimeter as well.

The truck has been having intermittent starting issues over the last few weeks. No tricks or anything seems to help. It either starts on the first try, or not at all. Budget issues have forced me to do nothing for the last week, and will pretty much force me to DIY the repair unless it's really intimidating.

The only useful information I have so far is that when I tried cleaning the MAF sensor and throttle (because I already had the stuff to do so) it cranked and turned over momentarily, probably burning the throttle cleaner. So it's likely a fuel issue. (Dang...)

Please advise and/or recommend tools and tests needed, and I'll follow up when I can.

I can also add pictures, if interested. But she isn't pretty, not yet anyway. Just someone's dinged up old work truck. Maintenance seems to have been kept up, but the previous owner clearly didn't give a crap about cosmetics.

I also have a laundry list of unrelated issues and questions of lesser importance. But of course I can't remember any of them right now at nearly 1am lol.

Anyway, cheers and thanks in advance for any help.

 

Welcome from LA (Lower Alabama)! You'll get a lot more help if you post this in the 1st Gen section. There a several really smart and helpful guys in there, and not everyone watches the New Intro forum.

 

Welcome from NY.

 

First things first, how many miles, and any recent maintenance history, like when the last timing belt change was done?

It sounds like you're saying it's turning over strong but not firing ... if I'm wrong, please let me know ... if I'm right, I'd think it's likely a sensor or fuel delivery problem (versus a starter or corrosion-in-battery-cables situation).

Before we get going, if memory serves, with the fuel circuit on 2000-2006 Tundras, the fuel pump doesn't go to "RUN" state unless one of two things are true: (A) The key must either be all the way forward in the START position, b/c it's doesn't run with the key set to ON, or (B) the crank position sensor must be actively reporting to the ECU the engine is running. Of course, the fuel pump relay socket must have power also, else when the ECU needs to trigger the relay to engage the fuel pump, nothing happens.

Of course ... I expect you've already checked all fuses, including hte EFI fuse in the engine bay, and any/all other fuses, carefully, with a multimeter, to confirm this isn't a simple blown fuse.

Thus ....

When I say "sensor issue", I mention timing belt because the crank position sensor is critical to the fuel delivery circuit. And it just so happens many doing the timing belt replacement mis-route its wire, and it gets nicked by the serp pulley/belt, to the point a wire gets severed. This would support the 'starts sometimes, other times not, now doesn't start at all', i.e. the wire was nicked and slowly caused problems until severed to the point of full failure. Depending on mileage (if 200k+), it may just be the sensor went out, you can absolutely test it. IIRC, in the earlier years there was a similar issue with the cam position sensor on bank1 (driver side) behind the timing cover. This is easy enough to test, the process is in the FSM and the FSM is linked up in the 4th/5th paragraph over here. It's easy enough to inspect the wire creafully from up under the front of the engine and hunt for nicks.

When I say "fuel delivery issue", fuel delivery this is reliant on a couple of things:

• The fuel pump relay's power pin has a solid 12v leg so the relay can send power either down the low-pressure or the high-pressure leg to the fuel pump => Note that you can (IIRC) jumper here to force the fuel pump to engage
• The fuel rail is getting at least 20-30psi (IIRC) on the other side of the pressure regulator.
• The low-pressure fuel circuit, which has the silver-finned "fuel pump resistor" mounted to the fender, is working as expected (you can temporarily jumper to bypass, but confirm the location on your year, since it looks near-identical to part of the headlight circuit)
• Rodents haven't nested on top of the tank, and chewed thru the wiring, which, if you park outdoors where rodents are known to live, this may be true for you. They love nesting under the intake manifold, chewing up the starter/knock sensor wires, and on top of the tank - this is easy to check with a mirror and flashlight from below!
• The fuel pump is actually functioning due to failure => try slapping the fuel tank hard about 10-20 times while someone is turning it over, if your fuel pump is failing, I've found this, like with a bad starter, will get a failing pump to give you another go.

I think the above should give you a couple things to check, easily, with zero tools involved. Let us know where you land.

 

Probably just the fuel filter

 

(I hope OP knows you're joking )

 

I guess it could be the starter

 

I'll have to get back to check the actual mileage, but it's about 250k, and the timing belt sticker says it was done in 2018 at 180k, I think. So it wouldn't hurt to have it done again.

Yes, I mean to say it turns over fine but doesn't fire. It fired once, post throttle intake cleaning.

I have visually checked the fuses, nothing is obviously blown. I don't have a multimeter yet, but I'll be picking one up ASAP to properly test the fuses and relays.

I do park outside, and I just moved jobs to a more rural/industrial area where there are definitely rodents. Would explain the sudden issue. I'll check those things, and report back. Thanks for the help!

And yeah, I know it's never the fuel filter. I tried to do as much research as possible so I didn't waste anyone's time. And I know that Shifty really knows these trucks well and is the one to listen too.

As for posting in the 1st gen area, I thought I did?

 

This is a pretty important detail, and the kind of thing we are wanting to know about. Any time you clean the throttle body, there's certain risks involved - did you unplug the negative battery cable for at least 10 minutes after cleaning, so the ECU reset, and then could re-learn how to run after? Can you provide more details about how you went about cleaning it?

I'm not the only one to listen to. There are more than a couple dudes on here I'd listen to before listening to myself. I just happen to post more often.

 

+1 to everything @shifty` says. Crawl under truck with flashlight and mirror to look at top of fuel tank area. Then look at driver side timing cover where crank sensor wire lives to be sure wire has not chafed against serpentine belt. If all good so far then continue to troubleshoot as Shifty notes.

 

I wasn't aware of any risks, please let me know what they are. I removed the air intake from the throttle intake up to and including the air filter box lid. I disconnected the wire harness from the MAF sensor so I could get it all out of the way. I sprayed the MAF sensor with MAF cleaner and set the assembly aside to air dry. I then manipulated the throttle cable so the door motor would open the intake. I lightly sprayed throttle body cleaner in the intake, which wasn't very dirty, btw.

I ended up completely disconnecting the battery for a while, while I poked around cleaning, tightening, lubing, and inspecting various things all over the truck.

But now that you mentioned it, today I went out and disconnected just the negative side of the battery for over 10 minutes. I then hooked it back up and tried to start it again. It turned over and very briefly fired for a split second, no chance of any cleaner in the throttle at this point.

Earlier, I had my wife turn the key a few times while I listened for the fuel pump. I didn't hear anything, but my hearing isn't great and it's difficult to hear anything while the truck is turning over. I also felt the fuel pump relay while the engine turned over, and I definitely felt it click. But again, I don't have the tools to properly test relays or any electrical yet.

I got a mirror and checked around the fuel tank and followed the wires where I could. No signs of damage or rodents.

How should I proceed from here?

Also, I checked and the timing belt was supposedly done in March or August (sloppy writing in marker, it's either a 3 or an 8) of 2018 at 194,898 miles. I'm currently at 250,349 miles. So I'm roughly halfway through the life of the belt. How do I get eyes on the belt to confirm it's okay?

I also have a few questions unrelated to my starting issue as well, in no particular order.

1. What do I need to look for when selecting new rims? I know rim size and bolt pattern, does rim width or anything else come into play? Any offset or something else I need?

I found a local offering of some take off rims and tires from a newer Toyota. bolt pattern is the same, but they are 17" rims. Since the diameter is the same, 265, this should be a direct swap, right? No other modifications needed, correct? Does this affect drive quality or suspension?

2. There is a mystery wire that has been disconnected from the battery, see pictures. EDIT. NEVER MIND, HAVING ISSUES WITH PICTURES. Just need to confirm that this is not stock. And any ideas what it might be? Best way to go about figuring out what it goes to? I don't have any accessories that aren't working, that I'm aware of anyway.

3. Referring back to the 17" rims I mentioned. I've heard they look better on 1st gens, as the stock wheels look a tad small. The ones I'm looking at have 265/70/r17 tires on them. I currently have 265/75/r16 tires, this should be practically no different, correct? Would this raise the truck at all or change the appearance or ride quality? I need new tires anyway, and my rims look like crap. $350 seems like a pretty good deal.

4. When I unlock the passenger door with the key, both doors unlock. Driver door only unlocks the driver side. Is this intentional? Can it be changed?

5. At some point, I'd like to upgrade the instrument lights (at the very least) to LEDs. Do all the lights get their colors from the bulbs, or are some getting it from the instrument panel itself? Any color recommendations or place where others have posted their jobs? Im thinking blue for most of them. But the light for D is burnt out, per usual, and I'm not a fan of the orange gear indicators, but I don't want to alter things like the check engine light or anything that would illuminate in red to indicate a problem.

6. Probably a stupid question, but is there such a thing as an ashtray upgrade or modification? By which I mean, does anything else fit that space that isn't an ashtray, like additional cup holders?

7. I currently have no spare tire, thus the interest in information on rims. I've never been a fan of keeping the spare under the bed, is there a more useful purpose for that space? Anyone added an in bed storage box or additional fuel tank?

 

A few things.

Supposedly, you never want to spray TB cleaner into the intake. Here's why. And you always want to use TB cleaner, not carb cleaner or any other solvent.

You also supposedly don't want to let the butterfly/door slam shut, but I forget the logic of all that, if it's got to do with misaligning something, knocking something loose, damaging something. Wrong guy to ask on this, so I won't talk on it. I just know "don't do it". Doubt this is your problem.

For shits and giggles, try slapping the side of the tank while someone turns it over.

Before we get started, can you please verify there was never an aftermarket car alarm installed? What you just described just so happens to mirror what you'd see from a failing aftermarket alarm that had an immobilizer function. Look for extra wires under the dash on the driver's side and often a black box, maybe an LED anywhere in the dash, etc.

If it ran, the timing belt is intact. And the fact it ran and died has me suspicious of the fuel pump. Do you have any way to test for fuel pressure?

10mm socket. Just loosen the fasteners on either cover (leave installed, just loose) and pull back the cover to inspect the belt.

Should fit as long as it's not a 2023 Tundra. 4Runner and others are fine, if 6 lug. Including Lexus LX/GX 6-lug, Land Cruiser, and others. 16" has potential issues on some trucks, will smack calipers.

Read the wheels/tires/suspension section here for offset/backspacing info: https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-you-wanna-buy-just-bought-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/

You forgot pics.

Technically calculates to the same diameter. Should be a direct swap?

Once again go here: https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-...-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/page-6#post-3337889

Search the page for "RS3000". Download the instruction manual.

Once again go here: https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-...-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/page-6#post-3337889

Check the lighting section.

Not in the space per se, but someone has a 3D printed bracket you can install inside the factory ashtray to hold a Scanguage, which could be potentially adapted for other things.

In my short couple years here, I personally haven't seen anything. But that's not to say there's not anything out there.[/QUOTE]

 

Wow, you addressed everything! Thanks man.

I did indeed forget pics, how do I add those?

I did try tapping on the bottom of the tank with a soft mallet while it turned over, should I try the side? Any particular area? I think the pump is in the middle?

I'm not aware of any aftermarket alarm, but I'll look into that as well.

If it ends up being the pump, is there a write up for that on here as well?

 

I do not have a way to test fuel pressure. Apparently it isn't as simple as putting a guage on a Schrader valve at the fuel rail. Does any particular business loan a kit with the connections for Toyota?

Interesting. I just checked, and I did find extra wires, but they've all been cut and don't seem to go anywhere anymore. Including the mystery wire I mentioned earlier that appeared to once connect to the battery. That one also had an in-line 30 amp fuse. I followed some other wires under the driver side dash by the pedals. I followed them under the door trim, where they are also cut. And not recently. There was also a wire that was grounded to the frame under that trim, right by the mechanism for the seatbelt retractor.

The only other thing that might not belong is a box wrapped in electrical tape under the driver's side dash.

Would these aftermarket alarms be installed under any panels, or would they probably be easier to find?

This could all be unrelated, but now I'm suspicious of someone's Mickie Mouse wiring job on an accessory.

 

Post pics. Please. You may've just found the source of your woes.

Option 1: Use the "Upload a File" button next to the button you use to submit your post.
Option 2: Drag and drop the pictures into the reply text box.

I'd slap the side, towards the middle, and you can slap pretty damn hard, I think... Use your best judment.

Only use Denso brand for the replacement pump and DO NOT buy it on scAmazon or fleaBay, you're liable to end up with a very authentic-looking knockoff. Here's one of a few videos on the 'tube, it's easiest to drop the tank, but as with ANY part on these trucks, if it's electronic, and it takes more than 30-60 minutes to replace, only buy OEM brand (i.e. Denso, or Aisin):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YraWXXWlfRQ​

 

Thanks. Here is that mystery wire with the fuse, grounded wire under the trim, and taped up box.

I also found something about disabling alarms, it said to disconnect battery negative, turn key to ON and then reconnect battery. This didn't work, but something started a very soft buzzing sound somewhere near the throttle intake, but I don't know what it is. This was happening during the cleaning as well, but I forgot about it.

Keep in mind, before the cleaning, it only started when it wanted too, but now it doesn't start at all.

 

You're throwing a lot of questions out here for your truck not wanting to start but I'll throw out some answers anyway. Regarding this, you may find that these wheels don't stick out very far and look a little sunk in, you may have to run wheels spacers to get the look you want. Some people are against them but a good quality set installed properly should have no issue.

You can do it from the driver side too. Turn the key to unlock position twice.

If you mean the backlighting I run a white LED from superbrightLEDs for all mine. They also sell the bulbs for the gear indicators, they are different and very small. Just be aware if you do LED on the drive light it will not dim itself when you turn on your lights.

7 pin trailer brake control/harness that's been removed maybe.

That black taped up box looks like the rs3000 box. OE/dealer installed alarm system. Your truck would have came with 2 remotes when new.

 

Thanks Nick, those are some great points. Could this rs3000 alarm be causing an issue? It's nice to know that the truck may have come with remotes originally. Now I just use a good ol fashioned metal key. Perhaps there's a way to get remotes again then.

 

My truck will start even if the alarm is going off. (Horn sounding, lights flashing) so it doesn't seem to have any immobilization features so I wouldn't think it'd be causing your problems.

I've never programmed new remotes myself but I'm almost certain you could add a new remote to it. Do you have a little black rectangle by your fog light switch that says "Toyota" and "Security" in some form or fashion?

 

Not that I know of, but I'll check when I can. Is it at the same level as the fog light switch and dimmer knob? If so, then no. I did notice a rectangular area there the other day, but mine is just dashboard material. It's an optional cutout location, if I understand correctly?

Dang, I was hoping that might be the issue. Been looking at info on that alarm system for the past half hour or so. I don't see anything about immobilization either.

But thanks again for your input. It makes sense that the cut wires might be from a trailer brake or something similar, and the alarm system is likely dealer installed. That's reassuring. The truck shows plenty of signs and scars from being a no bs work truck. I don't know who the previous owner(s) were, but it seems like they had no interest in cheesy accessories or mods. They took good care to keep the truck running properly, but didn't give a crap about looks or non essentials like passenger side visor or missing control knobs.

And yeah, I'm quite scatter brained when it comes to questions, haha. If I don't ask them right away, I'll forget all about it and risk being awakened in the middle of the night several years later when the question finally returns to me. All this time researching and tinkering with the starting issue has given me plenty of opportunities to notice random things that I would like to address. But if I force myself to get back down to Earth, I need my truck to start, and then I need to get new tires soon-ish. Full stop.

 

RS3000 isn't your issue, and I agree with Nick on that and that the wire you're showing looks like trailering rig/tow. But it doesn't appear attached to anything, so not your issue. I don't believe RS3000 or the new RS3200 have immobilizer function embedded, I think the trucks with immob use the BCM (body control module) for security, but again ... I may be mistaken on that.

I don't think immob is your problem. I'd suggest to skip that train of thought. You've got an '02 and if there's no sign of aftermarket alarm under the driver's side of the dash, or in the driver's side kick panel (plastics by your left foot), look elsewhere.

I still want you to be double-confirming all your fuses in both the dash, and under the hood. And there's a lot of text above back/forth but I don't have a ton of time to read (work). Going back to my reply #4 above, did you confirm yet if you've got 12v positive to the fuel pump? Have you tried jumpering power to the fuel pump at the relay and listening for it to kick on? Have you checked the crank position wire harness to make sure it hasn't been damaged by the timing belt or pulley?

 

I haven't jumped the power to the pump yet, how do I go about doing that, and what tools are required? Same for confirming the 12V positive. Where do I locate the crank position sensor and wire harness?