Remote Start

Hello, first thread here.

I have a 2002 Tundra Sr5 with KEY'D entry NOT keyless entry. I am looking to install a remote starter as I live in Canada.

Has anyone had any experience? I have found plenty of keyless entry information. I am assuming the only difference would be no door lock wiring?

 

Welcome TopG. I added a Viper remote start that I purchased on Amazon for cheap. I wired it in myself but did not wire in the locks. Its only half working as such. Fine for me as I don't drive the truck much. You can get basic functionality by wiring in the main starter wires and that's about it. I fumbled my way around installing it. If you aren't very good with vehicle wiring, I'd recommend having a shop install it for you.

There are others around here that have installed other systems. I found this link with good info on it.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/different-color-wires-on-12-pin-connector-help.82601/#post-2090430

I used these videos for info as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCt5UJPK65E&t=1250s&pp=ygUdZmlyc3QgZ2VuIHR1bmRyYSByZW1vdGUgc3RhcnQ=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrhIGvTxNoQ&pp=ygUdZmlyc3QgZ2VuIHR1bmRyYSByZW1vdGUgc3RhcnQ=

 

I think @artsr2002 has you covered pretty well. Welcome from TX!

 

I would add one more tidbit:

As most systems will tie into essential circuits like starter, locks, ignition, you DO NOT want to skimp and go off-brand with this purchase. Stick with a *secure*, well-respected name brand. Art mentions Viper, which is in the DEI/Directed group, who make excellent products. The shop I worked at installed Avital and Clifford, which is also owned by DEI (I personally prefer Clifford over all of them, though!). You won’t pay less, but you’ll get a secure product that trolls fishing your area can’t easily wirelessly scan/jack your truck. Likewise, you should get a split 10-15 years out of the product before it starts to fail/act up, and you’ll also get decent support, especially if a licensed, authorized shop installs it.

Whatever you do. Do it right. Please do yourself a favor, read and heed this: https://www.tundras.com/threads/wiring-help-needed.126584/#post-3235641

Some boxed kits for automotive purposes, especially the cheapest ones, will inevitably come with crap like that. It doesn’t mean it’s OK to use! They’re just giving the appearance of “giving everything you need”. Do it right the first time using the proper taps and you won’t be that person back here later because “truck won’t start, just clicks” or similar. We’ve seen it plenty.

 

I've installed 3 of the cheap bulldog remote starters without any issues. I would also emphasize this - the past few years the knock-offs have gotten dangerously cheap with undersized wires and no circuit protection.

It's an easy install. Both Autozone and the12volt have wiring information. I don't think the tundra needed a diode for the door locks, but it's been a few years.

 

The main reason I wouldn't install cheaper stuff like Bulldog is security. Some of their units have a full mile range, and at least as of a couple years ago, Bulldog did jack shit to encrypt their signal, used common codes, letting people effectively wardrive through neighborhoods blasting codes until a car fired up, smash the window, and you're outta there. Back before Security+ was a thing on garage doors, dudes used to wardrive around and do the same to get into houses. Someone knows you have remote start and wants to steal it? A thief can buy a $150 kit on fleaBay to capture the unencrypted signal when you start the truck in the morning, then come back later that night, rebroadcast the same signal, and bounce with your truck, all because someone wanted to save a c-note or their remote start.

This - and the superior build quality, not having shit components and haphazard build quality with zero QA/QC on the product - is why I prefer higher-tier companies like Clifford, who encrypts virtually all signals, as most modern garage doors do (now Security+ 2.0 is standard).

Granted ... there are ways to steal anything with remote start. You just don't want to be the low-hanging fruit using cheap stuff in your vehicle. At this point, a lot of thefts are happening, again with a cheap proximity relay kit from fleaBay, which will intercept any key fob within 100ft or so and re-transmit, making it appear as if the key is in proximity to the vehicle. Lots of brand new cars with prox keys/factory keyless start being stolen that way around ATL the last few years - and that's an OEM system!

 

Although a good reason, there are WAY easier ways to steal a car. If someone wants my rusty 22 year old truck, go for it.

The level of encryption on consumer devices is so weak that CPUs from 10 years ago can crack it in seconds. It doesn't really matter as there are easier ways to accomplish the same thing. I don't need to capture your garage door code as the side door probably has a window that can be smashed in a second or the contractor used the cheapest building product and I can just go through the wall, or it's a consumer door and I can break a panel or bend it.

Security+ is still old - once you open your door twice, the rolling code can be captured - with a cell phone. Renaming outdated security features doesn't make them better, it's just a marketing gimmick.

Relying a consumer product security protocols just creates a false sense of security - ask Kia and Hyundai owners (or former owners).

Price has little to do with build quality now as manufacturing is so consolidated, all you can do is hope the design engineer didn't take too many shortcuts when pricing came back.

 

Nothing is theft proof if you have a tank and aren’t afraid to fire the cannon. But the common thief is looking for the easy smash and grab. Or even better, the old door handle test until you find one unlocked. Path of least resistance and least likely to bounce em back into jail. Don’t have to have Fort Knox. Just make it as inconvenient as possible. They’ll typically move on to the next. Lights and noise are the best deterrents along with eyes, people or camera.

 

On that last bit, I’ll agree to disagree. My employer has a long history in embedded devices and embedded security. The design engineer part is correct. But manufacturing consolidation (and streamlining, modularization, outsourcing) are exactly why some products can be and are inferior. Case in point: Your preferred manuf’er shop A wants to trim half a cent per unit and opts for tinned stranded 26awg wire versus 22awg solid copper conductor and such a thin conductor is detrimental to signals in a way your EE hadn’t planned or components can’t handle effectively, or noise is introduced or … (I’m an SE, not EE so can’t speak a lot to that point). Needless to say the product is inferior, corners cut, and poor QA/QC missed it. Needless to say, the product will probably still hit shelves and have problems, and you won’t hear about it ‘til long after.

Reality is, the vast majority of crime is and always has been opportunistic, I feel like maybe the main point is being missed: Don’t be the low-hanging fruit. In virtually all cases but one, criminals are going for the easiest safe score they can find, which will be the person opting for the minimal, old, and/or fallible protection (or none at all). It’s not about how a modern computer can crack it in 10 minutes, it’s that a thief isn’t going to spend 10 minutes with a modern computer to crack anything when there’s a target he can hit in 10 seconds 3 doors down. Think like a crook; they’re typically smarter than people give credit for.

The one time you stray away from that topic - “someone really wants my 22 year old truck” - this is no longer opportunistic crime. It’s targeted crime. No piece of security is going to stop a targeted crime; the criminal has decided they’re invested at this point, and the reward is worth the risk.

Ultimately … buying quality name-brand product, choosing a vendor with reputation that stands behind their product is typically what’s going to give you a long-lasting problem free experience so you’re not wondering 4 years from now if the click-at-start is your starter or the remote start you installed on that 22yo truck. Buying a higher-shelf product with semi-modern security protocols and safeguards versus the budget or no-name brand is typically going to prevent you from being the lower-hanging fruit as well, whether we agree or disagree, the wardriving criminal wouldn’t care. Both are the best you can do when making a purchase choice like this, and that’s all I’m trying to say.

EDIT: @KNABORES gets it. Much more succinctly though.

 

I LOVE embedded security and OT devices. They are easy security sells. Unfortunately, devs use open source or vulnerable libraries that have zero days in them. Embedded devices are traditionally difficult or impossible to update (ask Cisco!) and without real-time clocks the seeds are easily predictable. But hey - it would be way too expensive to build updateable products and maintain the code, plus how would they justify buying upgrades?

But ya - you hack my remote start and get the truck running - who cares? You're gonna smash my window and punch the ignition anyway, hacking the remote start would just get a warmed up truck.

To each their own, I've had three bulldogs installed in different vehicles going on over 15 years without issues so I won't be swapping them out. I also wouldn't recommend them specifically as I'm sure the product has changed.