General Supercharger Thread

Man, that's pretty damn cool.

I'm going to assume it'll be favorably reviewed against the Harrop 2650, especially seeing as Harrop expects you to run their kit on the stock tune.

 

The trucks actually white but it’s wrapped. Old video of the truck when it was first completed but it’s gone through a few revisions since.

https://youtu.be/N2bOyJbAitE

 

Where are you getting that information? That's not correct.

Harrop claims you can safely run their blower on the stock tune but nowhere are they saying that is the optimal setup. The business confidential AKA "love letter" simply states their isn't any advantage to tuning it on a stock setup without other upgrades. With all the data logged knock and pulled timing we know its not the case with the stock maps. They talk to these drawbacks in the document but real world parameters look less favorable.

In hindsight I suspect that was their stop gap to push blower sales during a time that tunes weren't available for the 2019+.

Edit: Added link to "love letter":
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ch_Guide.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1MQwwgTy5aWYelXyZKfVMe

 

This.

And as soon as tuning was avail, we jumped on it. As Harrop recommended.

Once ECU opened - Some folks just jumped straight to the smaller pulley + injectors.

 

A note on Pistons and Rings:
https://www.tundratalk.net/threads/need-rebuild-advice-super-fun-and-easy-questions.647418/

 

Interesting reading in that thread.

 

Lots of valuable information from the early forced induction adopters on that forum as a whole, for both "suckers" and "blowers".

I keep going back there to what lessons can be learned.

<search item> site:TundraTalk.net will find anything

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...ion-need-machine-shop-recommendations.353600/

Sometimes you get lucky and the block can be saved.

 

The Radium Venturi instructions say to remove the stock venturi. Did others do that & if so where is it?

 

It's the black tube going from the stock fuel pump out of the basket to the blue fitting, should be removed with the stock fuel pump as it causes a restriction.

 

Thanks, I posted and immediately realized that was most likely it.

 

Oh wow!

Tying it back to the earlier discussion on ring upgrades still not clear that solely upgrading rings would save anything even if the rings were properly gapped for forced induction/heat. Probably hasn't been tested either. If you are cracking the engine open to install rings you may as well upgrade the other internals.

 

Bigger ring gaps might have saved mine, a better tune definitely would have, but would have only been a matter of time before stock cast pistons or rods failed. It's a lot of work to get down to replacing the rings, and then having to replace the gaskets and torque-to-yield bolts that aren't supposed to be reused as well...just to do it again when a rod lets go and puts you in a worse spot. I would do at least pistons, rods, bearings, MLS head gasket, and ARP head studs to keep you safer at the higher power levels you'll inevitably want to get to.

 

Thanks for sharing and putting this in perspective.

 

Forced induction overview:
https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/Forced_Induction_1.html

Note it may not have been updated since 2011-2015.

 

Appreciate the correction.

When I first heard of their kit being available without a tune, I was under the impression from secondhand sources that they were confident in their kit not needing tuning and being sufficient as-is, which I'd always found odd.

 

You're not wrong about that for the 2019+ at that time. That is what actually started the this very thread before it was repurposed. At that time 2018s and lower had tuning support and could go straight to Stage 2.

Edit for clarity: At the time Stage 1 was the only choice.

 

That's the green orifice?

 

How long has your wrap held up? Mine usually go for 18 months, 12 months early degradation is noticeable. RAAIL will be my next substitute for a wrap.

 

Yes, looks like it

 

His trucks been fully wrapped since 2019 and driven hard offroad along with Baja. It’s held up fine with no issues so far.

https://youtu.be/bOmmBleBo_U

 

Sweet! That's a great run. Your weather and traffic conditions probably have a lot to do with it.

On my old daily driver best I could get is 18 months or so. I tried three different wrap brands and it was all the same, different care routines made no difference.

 

Yea his truck is garage kept in Phx. I’m sure it plays a factor as I’ve seen some wraps here in the pnw now last one winter season.

 

Old vid 10+ years old. I believe this is a rear mounted turbo and repost. "Is that a cop?":
https://youtu.be/ttj7fZCMBVw

 

One step closer...

 

Mine are supposedly at the post, but I have to wait for them to put the notification card in my box. Then I have to try to get there during their hours. If I can get past those hurdles, I may be able to swap them this weekend.

 

Nice! I missed the initial delivery which was on Friday. I didn't know I'd need to be home to sign for them so the mailman left a notice. I either had to pick them up from the post office or schedule a redelivery.

Just waiting on the pulley now and base tune to work with the injectors then I should be ready to schedule my install date with Westcott.

 

FiveO Fuel Injectors Flow Data Report attached if anyone is curious about the numbers.

 

Interesting read from July 30th, 2020...

Supercharged Tundra Race Intake and RCF Throttle Body Adapter Kit Testing
Prospeed Toyota Tundra Race Intake and RCF Throttle Body Kit
We would like to share with you some dyno numbers and data for the new products we have been developing on the Toyota 5.7 platform. Please keep in mind we use a hub dyno which removes the inertial losses from the tires. This can account for a few % higher #s than what you may see on a dynojet due to the size tires a lot of Tundra guys run. It's not a drastic difference but we want to be sure and put that out front! The majority of the gains were at higher RPM as these mods affect the total airflow capacity of the system.



As you will see in the data provided most of the restriction doesn’t start to show up until 3500RPM and higher. Our test vehicle was a 2018 Tundra with Magnuson supercharger, Griptec 2.30 upper pulley, Prospeed catch can system, Prospeed full fuel system complete (with our drop-in injectors, TI Auto fuel pump, billet fuel rails, and lines), American Racing off-road headers, and Corsa exhaust system, tuning with HPtuners, 93 octane, and logging via our Motec C187 logger.

The above graph shows 3 different configurations that we tested. We made sure on final runs to do 2 back to back pulls (2 runs for each config shown in graph) just to ensure consistency in the dyno readings. This allows us to be sure there are no anomalous high reading runs.

Now to the meat and potatoes!
Red/Yellow Run


These runs are with the stock throttle body and the Magnuson intake piping/airbox. 580HP/523TQ

Looking at the data here (Screen 0) you can see that in this configuration that the blower inlet pressure had dropped to around -1.44psi, and the pre throttle inlet pressure is at a -.91psi deficit. This is obviously not optimal and restricts the blowers final boost capacity to 8 psi with this header/pulley combination. At this point, the factory mass air meter was also at the end of its usable range hitting the upper voltage limit. When upgrading to the larger intake we will be increasing the tube diameter which will effectively increase the upper range limit of the stock mass airflow meter.

Pink/Light Purple Runs

After fitting theProspeed 4.50” Race Intake Systemthe engine power increased to a peak of630HP/540TQ.

Looking at the data in (Screen 1) you can see the intake system reduced the pre throttle inlet pressure restriction down to a final value of .06psi (resting pressure is .34). This in return also reduced the pre blower inlet restriction to a value of -.63. This doesn’t seem like much but it was worth a final gain of 2psi of boost, 50HP and around 15TQ as most of the restriction/gain is at higher RPM.

Maroon/Dark Purple Runs


Our final mod was theProspeed RCF Throttle Body Adapter Kit, which netted us 570TQ ( a gain of 30 ). The peak HP number did not increase as due to some sort of airflow/tq limiter (ignition based) was engaging on these runs (as seen in the graph) and causing power to taper off hard before hitting the main fuel cut. But once we sort out the 2018 ECU side of things based on the current trajectory, we are estimating 650-660 by red line.

Looking at the data on these run (Screen 2) we have a final blower inlet pressure of -.45 and the reduction in restriction happened early in the run (approx. 3600RPM) which you can see correlates nicely to the gains on the dyno graphs

Final Run


The final screenshot (Screen 3) shows the total improvement in restriction and boost from baseline to the fully modded runs.

The power numbers are with a very rich mixture of 10.1:1 AFR, as the factory Toyota ring gaps are extremely tight. Running these trucks leaner under long hard loaded pulls ( full out 1-5 freeway pull ) can cause the piston to grow enough to butt the ring gaps which is what we believe to be the cause of all the broken ring lands these engines are known for. So by running it very rich we keep the cylinder temps down as much a possible to try and reduce the possibility of this happening. I think the misconception is that knock is what’s killing these engines, but the Toyota factory knock control is very aggressive and does an excellent job of preventing repeated knock events, so we feel in our opinion this is not likely the cause for the majority of damage a lot of people see with the supercharged trucks. This is why we highly recommend upgrading the fuel system as we’ve shown in previous data that even with factory TRD SC components once you optimize the cam angles and put a high flowing exhaust system on these trucks there are major restrictions in the fuel system that cause the passenger side to run significantly leaner than the driver side.

 

What is the port fuel rail design like for the 5.7L

Without having dived into the fueling components hardware and physical setup myself, this could even just be due to basic physics.

The reason I bring this up is because this exact thing happens on the 3.5L Tacoma (2GR-FKS). It has PI and DI, and while their respective rails flow in opposite directions of each other, possibly to allow the DI to cover down on fueling deficiencies from the PI side, you still have to account for it nonetheless. The port rail runs in sequence from driver-front to the rear, and then crosses over and eventually ends at the pass-front (cyl 2-4-6-5-3-1). It's not equally split.

If the tundra uses the same design for its port fueling (yes, PI only obviously), you have a simple matter of physics resulting in the leaning. You can command more fuel pressure to try to compensate, and you'll likely succeed at the cost of running the driver side excessively rich unless you compensate with individual cylinder commanded fueling, because otherwise you're just dumping additional fuel into the first cylinders on that rail in order to be left over with enough to no longer starve the ones at the end of the rail