Front Diff Issue

I have a 2020 Platinum Tundra, around 43,000 miles. Front diff is making the throbbing noise in two wheel drive at low speeds and goes away when I turn 4x4 on. I know they had a TSB out for some models to replace the whole front diff, but didn’t think this issue was present on the later models. Does this sound like another case of a bad needle bearing? Anyone else have this issue with their later model 2.5’s?

 

My truck is quiet

 

I don't have an answer for you be have you changed your front diff fluid? Would be where I would start.

 

Yes, needle bearing. Get the ECGS sleeve.

 

https://www.tundras.com/threads/2020-differential-needle-bearing-failure.80612/

 

I had this happen on my then low mileage 2020. Toyota replaced the differential under warranty and noted on the repair order that the differential lubricant was 'very dirty'. So if you fix this problem using the ECGD bushing, you will potentially still have contaminated lubricant and internal component wear.

Based on your reported mileage and vehicle age, you are still covered under the 60 month, 60,000 mile powertrain warranty so I would take it to the dealer and ask for a replacement diff for this known problem.

 

So, not understanding completely about the contaminated lubricant and internal component wear part of your post. I mean of course it will be very dirty if it had not been changed or the bearing was going out. An yes you will always have internal component wear even if you have a perfectly fine differential. It's a wear item.

With that said, when this happened to my 4Runner, I went ahead and just got the bushing done because it's a design flaw and it is only a matter of time before it happens again. An the next time it happens it will most likely be out of warranty.

If/when my 2020 Tundra diff starts doing this I will probably have it done under warranty and immediately put the bushing in on the brand new diff so the issue will be a non concern for the life of the vehicle.

 

At the time the differential was replaced my truck had less than 10,000 miles (IIRC) so you wouldn't expect to see unusually dirty lubricant. The fact that the service tech noted it on the R.O. says to me that it was not just normally dirty. My comment about internal component wear is based on the reported dirty lube - don't know if the 'dirt' was from disintegrating needle bearings or another wearing component, but if Toyota will replace the diff with a new one, it seems like a pretty good idea.

You make a good point about whether to switch to the ECGS bushing before the same condition occurs again if Toyota replaces the diff as well as the bearing. I suppose it depends whether they've upgraded the needle bearings. From the earlier post linked above that extensively covers this topic, it seemed to me that only a very few Tundras actually have this failure, so if the OP gets a new diff from Toyota, it's hard to know whether to stay with the OEM needle bearing replacement or immediately change to the ECGS bushing. I stayed with the Toyota bearings, but have no idea whether that was a good decision or not - the only thing I can say is that the condition has not occurred again.

 

Hopefully it never happens again to you! In the 4Runner the diffs that were being replaced were being replaced with the same exact design that had the issue in the first place. So the chance of it happening again in that vehicle was great. Mine had the issue at around 40,000. On a side note with my 4, it was smooth as glass after the bushing was put in.

I do not know if the replacement diffs in the Tundra are different than the diffs that have the problem with the bearing. Would have to research that. If it is the same and it happens to me, will be having ECGS bushing put in as soon as the new diff gets replaced.

 

I have been seeing this more and more recently. Brind it to the dealer they will put a new front diff in it and a driver side axle shaft if it needs it.

 

Took it by the dealership this morning and they said "everything looks normal" and proceeded to charge me $182 diagnostic fee. Leaving the dealership (which is off the interstate with tons of road noise), I admittedly couldn't hear it as well, but once I got back near home away from road noise, it was pretty dang loud. Cycled between 2WD and 4x4 and noise goes completely away in 4x4. Noise is most pronounced at 20-25mph.

I'm thinking about installing a camera down near the crossmember pointed towards the differential to better capture issue. It drives me crazy that I have to do this much work to demonstrate an issue. Anything else I should be looking for to help bring it to their attention?

 

If the noise goes away in 4WD, it is a virtual certainty that you have this problem and it shouldn't have required a $182 diagnostic fee for an experienced tech to know what this is. Even though the sound isn't necessarily loud, are you saying the tech couldn't hear anything in 2WD? Or that he pronounced the noise as normal?

 

Yes, find another dealer. An then report that one that charged you a ridiculous fee for doing nothing to Toyota corporate. It's obvious you have the bearing issue

 

My 2020 sr5 is having the front diff replaced under warranty right now. Same symptoms. I took it in after seeing all the forum posts with similar issues and the dealer called same day to say they are replacing the front diff. It’s been a week so far but they said the part was out 2 days.

 

I didn’t have a chance to talk with the tech directly as I had to get back to work. The service manager said that “everything looked normal” and that they drove it 5-mi and didn’t hear the sounds. If they drove it 5-mi on the highway near the dealership, they probably would have had a hard time as the highway speeds are higher than the speeds the sound is most pronounced. It doesn’t help it’s an extremely busy interstate with loads of road noise. Pulling off on side streets, I heard it very clear.

I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn’t hear it and take it in again this week and see if the tech can ride with me. I’d like to think that they are not just trying to get out of warranty work, but it feels like it.

 

In my case there was no need to drive the truck at highway speeds and a short drive on a secondary road was sufficient to demostrate the noise. If you have the failed needle bearing problem, they shouldn't have to drive on a noisy road where the sound might be obscured. I agree with your idea to go back to this dealer and request a the drive-along with the tech to be sure he hears it. With a known issue like this, it should not be refused. Also, though the reimbursement from Toyota is at lesser labor rates than we pay, there is no reason for the dealership to deliberately refuse to agree to repair this under warranty.

 

Well, it gets worse. I decided to check my dash cam for the mechanics test drive. I watched the entire thing and there were times he drove at lower speeds and the noise was pronounced. I couldn’t find a time when he really cycled the 4x4. At the end of the test drive he said “and no problems”.

When I got home I test drove it around the hood and replicated the sound and made it go away with 4x4 each time and going to 2WD brought it back. I’m not sure I can even trust this dealership or tech if they can’t diagnose what is seemingly an obvious problem.

Anyone have recommendations for a reputable service department in Houston area, I’d appreciate a PM. This is the second time I’ve been burned by this dealer, first time with our RAV4. I’m going to see if I can get the video over to Toyota corporate. It sucks because this is by far the closest Toyota dealership to us.

 

Only thing worse than lazy people is stupid people.

It's so hard to find people who are proud of what they do and do it well anymore. It's like people just don't give a shit anymore.

It hasn't always been like this, has it? Or is it just that you notice it more as you age?

Either way, most people suck.

 

Toyota dealers are like McDonald's. Some locations you can consistently get fresh burgers and crispy fries and some nearly always serve burgers with stale buns and cold soggy fries. You don't really know until you deal with each one a few times...

 

Doesn't seem as if you have any choice but to move on from this dealer. The only chance you have to redeem your $182 'diagnostic' fee is to tell the service manager to refund your money or that you will be forwarding the dash cam recording to Toyota for review. Unlikely to work, but you have little to lose by trying.

 

I'm working through what sounds like a similar issue. I thought it was a wheel bearing but after reading through the front differential needle bearing threads I think it is likely this issue at less than 30K miles. When the dealership mechanic ran their diagnostics and test drove it they reported to me they could not duplicate the issue. They asked if I could ride with the mechanic to point out the issue. Mine appears to be worse in the 33 mph to 25 mph range. Only in 2WD. You can't hear it over 40 mph or in 4WD. Very subtle right now. When I took the mechanic for a ride I showed him we had to search for a smooth section of road or the road noise alone would mask the problem. Sure enough, we get to a smooth portion of the road, I shift to neutral to get rid of engine noise and let it coast through 33-25 mph and the mechanic heard the sound. Mission accomplished. He's now trying to run some more testing to confirm a front differential needle bearing. So far so good. I'll see what happens in the next few days as they do some more work.

 

The sound is just getting worse on mine, so I'm just going to keep driving it until it is so obvious that it can't be denied. The mechanic stated on my "diagnostic" sheet that there is "nothing abnormal", so no worries about driving it right? I have enough warranty left that it should get fixed eventually. We'll see.

 

Today, I bit the bullet and replaced my needle bearing with an ECGS bushing. Result, absolutely and completely resolved my issue. It feels like a new truck now, smooth as glass. There was a crap ton of slop in the needle bearing vs the bushing to the CV axle.

I didn’t observe any visible damage to the needle bearing other than it felt very loose. I consider myself moderately skilled with mechanical things compared to the average Joe, but this was not an easy job. I had a lot of challenges removing the CV axle. I ended up using a slide hammer and used a couple of hose clamps to hold the hook hammer attachment onto the CV axle.

Also, the fluid was somewhat dark and there was a lot of black sludge on the drain plug magnet.

I used a 1” cheater bar on the ECGS driver tool and it made like way easier to knock it in.

Overall, was it worth it? Definitely. Do I want to do it again, no, definitely not.

 

Follow up question… does the bearing ever eventually fail or does it just make noises due to tolerances or harmonics?

I’m at 59k on a truck I recently purchased. I can make the truck make what sounds like the needle bearing sound driving through the neighborhood. I changed the diff oils a few hundred miles ago and front looked nearly brand new.

 

I think it’s unlikely it’ll fail. Maybe it’ll cause more wear on the CV due to the loose tolerances. For me, it was the annoying harmonic whoosh at 25-30 and the vibration at 65-70 when entering highways. Both of those are completely gone.

The needle bearing came out with no visible signs of damage.

 

If you are having this problem the techs at Toyota don't need to drive it to listen for the noise. All they need to do is grab the drivers side axle shaft next to the diff and push on it. If there is a problem you will see it right away.

 

Good luck; I literally argued with the tech about the amount of slop and they claimed it was normal. Some dealers are better than others. YMMV.

 

My 2019 has developed this problem. I just put some Wildpeaks AT tires on my truck a couple weeks ago and they are much less aggressive on the pavement then the Nitto Ridge Grapplers MT,s that I had on the truck before. I guess I couldn't really feel or hear the growl developing until I got the new tires but now I feel it. I wasn't sure what it was at first. I knew it was in the drive train and I could feel the vibration in the steering wheel and the gas pedal but it wasn't until yesterday that I was under the truck changing the oil in the diffs that identified the problem. I grabbed the axel shaft next to the front diff and pushed on it and knew right a way what the problem was.

I do have one advantage though. My sister is the CFO at a large Toyota/ Hundi dealership in the San Diego area so that comes with some perks. I was talking to her last night about it. This is covered under the the 5/60 drivetrain warrantee for me but not for much longer though. The truck only has 40,000 miles on it but the 5 year part is quickly approaching. I do have a dealer installed 4" Pro Comp stage 1 bracket lift on the truck and slightly over sized tires and even though none of these things void the warrantee there will be dealerships that will use these mods to deny service under warrantee. She was telling me if I wanted to drive it to her dealer ship she would make sure it was fixed but I decided to order the bushing and do the work myself instead. Since I will be putting new front coil overs on the truck and doing a break job as well here in a week or two it won't be that big a deal to do it then. The fact that I live in the Santa Barbara area I'm not exactly close and I would still be out my truck for as long as it took to get the new diff and do the repairs. That could take weeks. No thanks.