General Supercharger Thread

Any of them with a larger intake diameter, which is all of them, will require retuning the MAF.

 

Yup, go bigger than 3.5” and you need a new tune. In which case, might as well get any other bolt on goodies you see yourself wanting and tune it all at the same time.

Merry Christmas to yourself.

 

While you are at it @nobodyintexas double check your throttle body. It may have been "damaged" by the old harness you can never be sure until you upgrade to the larger throttle body.

 

Diderot is creeping in....

I'm shopping for "deluxe" pkg at Prospeed.

do they have that Gold stuff?

 

Asking the hive...

Since I now have a catalyst to make another move.

What additions would y'all recommend to get me to ~500whp.

Recall - I'm 477whp right now...or thereabouts.


Would the TRD airbox get me there?

 

What's the current setup again?

 

More boost lol

 

harrop stage 2 >>> 650's 80mm pulley

everything else is stock.

 

Seems to me you’re at that all or nothing breaking point since you’ll need a retune. Things snowball fast.

Bigger Intake, bigger throttle body, smaller pulley? ….> more fuel needed…..> parallel fuel rails, bigger fuel pump, maybe 750 injectors? I have the same decisions to make, and may be lame and just get a 4-4.5” intake and retune for that. Using mine as a tow pig I don’t want to get too carried away.

as for 500whp, just try a different Dyno or even the same one on a cooler day and you’re probably already there. It’s just a number for bragging rights but doesn’t mean much without knowing the delta.

 

This. Dyno numbers are kind of meaningless since the dyno is never calibrated to a baseline from what I can tell. "That dyno kills power, that dyno is gracious". It's a cool number for reference, but unless you're referencing other vehicles or setups on the same physical dyno, there is so much variance that it's kind of pointless besides ball park figures. For a 23hp increase I wouldn't do anything. Dyno it at 5am and you'll be there.

 

Damn it, should have waited for blackfriday sales

Prospeed sale 10% off all their products
$500 off Harrop S/C

 

Some like Whipple offer discounts through installers too.

 

Fit kit inventory check in. Soooo close I'm drooling

 

I could sell you my TRD intake once I upgrade but it won’t get you any more HP.

 

What's up boys! Some great info in these Gale banks videos. With that said pops is selling his maggy and going to a Whipple. Let me know if anyones interested lol!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ6TGS0Edm8

 

Can’t wait to hear back to back impressions, although the tune is always a huge varying factor.

 

Yep we’ll be having my contact at Dynojet doing the tuning on this one. Should be fun.

 

That was a cool video! I like how scientific he is about testing, some of the morons I work with could learn a thing or two.

The TVS efficiency numbers are much higher than what the 71 style roots puts up, maybe even better than the Whipple, so I don't know how much can be extrapolated to the Magnuson/Harrop vs Whipple argument.

 

One thing I don't understand is why higher temperatures from the supercharger means less power, or the same question another way is why do intercoolers matter?

In my pea brain I think of the supercharger pushing 1.9L of air into the intake, well regardless how hot that air becomes there is still 1.9L worth of molecules, and the volume (the intake tract) is constant. So if the amount of air molecules doesn't change and the volume doesn't change, why would the air density or air mass change?

I can understand timing changing or combustion efficiency or something like that, but people say cooler air is denser air is better air, which is great but why is density changing if mass and volume aren't changing?

 

I doubt the TVS is more efficient but I haven't seen an adiabatic map for a Whipple to compare to a TVS. It is probably true that the efficiencies are so close as to not matter in terms of HP gains.

Not much out their on TVS tech but it looks to me as more of a hybrid between a traditional roots (lobes) and a true twin screw (that compresses the air).

Hardly a pea-brain question. You probably understand most of this better than the rest of us.

I think the article Silver posted a few days back talks to this. I don't think it is strictly density but charge temp. Higher temp pulls timing?

 

Yeah, this was the excerpt from the kenne bell article.

“Cooling air after the supercharger cannot make more power and therefore, intercoolers do not increase HP from “more oxygen.” When will everyone out there get this right? The cooler air will, however, allow the engine to run more ignition advance and/or more boost on a given octane. Obviously, cooler denser (WITH higher oxygen content) air enteringthe supercharger increases power at the rate of 1% for every 10°. So lose that power robbing underhood exposed filter.”


No doubt TVS technology has greatly advanced the roots design in regards to efficiency. A twin screw may still be more efficient on paper but that may be shifted toward a higher RPM range that isn’t usable on on our trucks. Even reading TVS vs Whipple comparisons on LS forums that use these blowers to the max the consensus seems to be the TVS gives a more violent down low punch that just makes more power lower in the range, and the Whipple is better up top.

There must be a few good reasons the Eaton TVS seems to be the go to for a majority of OEM applications from mustangs, to corvettes and Camaros.

 

I think for towing his new offroad trailer the whipple will work out well. Told him to get a smaller pulley also. Along with the pump and injectors

 

Wow, I was 100% on the money pea brain to BIG BRAIN moment!

 

Lmao. Mark this day down

 

PV=nRT. For a given pressure and volume, a higher temperature gives a lower mass of air.

 

Does this beg the question then, that using the MAF sensor for intake air temps is more likely to run an engine into the red at the wrong time such as heavy towing in hot weather, and be worse for longevity? The timing is being based off of a false intake air temp, which could be letting it run too advanced when maybe it shouldn’t be? I know the tundra has a very good knock detection system, but I still have to wonder.

I don’t think it would be a factor in normal weather or driving circumstances, but we don’t tune these trucks while they’re towing a heavy trailer. The tuning of the timing is all based on street/dyno pulls in which the intake temp post supercharger is probably more linear and predictable. It is not tuned for those extreme scenarios like pulling a heavy trailer up a hill that’s 1-2 miles long that results in notably higher temperatures post supercharger that the ECM has no idea how hot they are. It’s over there measuring pre supercharger and the timing is dialed in under a very different scenario for X amount of air at X temperature measured at the MAF. It would just seem to me that measuring IAT post supercharger is another layer of safety, as it will more quickly adjust timing to compensate for really high temperatures under load.

 

Comparison of blower types, claims Lysholm/twin screws is the most efficient even more so than a centrifugal (surprised me):
https://youtu.be/RXVyweyoPfE

Another comparison at around 5 mins:
https://youtu.be/gN10vCR-tPY

 

Temp is taken into consideration as well as MAF reading. I suspect its why Harrop re-positioned the temp sensor post intercooling, if I'm not mistaken on its location base on the Harrop article posted a few days ago:
https://www.harrop.com.au/blog/tech/supercharger-design-and-inlet-air-temps-myths-busted

 

Controversial video about brakes:
https://youtu.be/CyH5xOcsXxs
Follow up:
https://youtu.be/Ql9eYh31kTw