1st gen Tundra vs Other newer half tons

I know this topic gets old but I have never owned a Tundra so bear with me. I've been a tacoma guy my whole life but am wanting something bigger.

I have about $10k-$15k to spend. I'm looking at 1) 2nd gen 5.3 Silverado, 2) F150 with a 5.0 or 3.5 eco, or 3) 1st gen Tundra with the 4.7. I know a good amount about all 3 but just can't decipher which one is right for me. I like the Tundras but it's older than the other 2 and I hear the gas mileage is trash. What are your guys experiences with comfortability and ride with the Tundras or the other trucks mentioned? I know they're reliable as hell so I'm not concerned about that. Has anyone owned multiple of these options that can attest? Since my budget is lower, I'd probably be getting a truck with 150k+ miles on it, so I need something that will last at least 250k miles to get my money's worth.

I hunt a lot so that will be its primary use (not towing). Mainly highways, backroads, and in-town. Not a lot of off-road but definitely want some off-road capability.

Any suggestion or things to look into would be appreciated, thank you!

 

Despite never owning one, definitely Gen 1 Toyota if you're going to use it as your hunting truck. Capable off road, fine on the streets. "can get you there, and get you back". slightly smaller than the other "full size" trucks. Might fit on some hunting trails easier.

Will you be doing your own maintenance? Can you tell the difference between a well maintained vehicle and one that was marginally maintained? (I'm not a gear head, but can tell when a truck has not been taken care of).

Starting with 150k, the GM & ford will show their age a lot sooner than the Tundra. And that includes diminishing gas mileage. Welcome, and good luck.

 

Former GM guy replying here, from a deep-rooted GM family. My dad, now in his 70s, was the first convert to Toyota trucks with his 2.5gen, about 5 years ago, from a GMT800 platform. I've owned and put tens hundreds of thousands of miles across two GMT800, a couple of GMT400s, and three C10s at this point so no shortage of experience.

I've had my 1st Gen Tundra for about 4 years now, and put around 10k miles on it, I don't do my old FL-GA/GA-LA/FL-TX/GA-TX commutes anymore, so far less miles now than in earlier years. I'd say that's pretty solid experience. I'll never go back to GM again.

I don't do Ford. Dad had an early '80s F150 when I was much younger, while it lasted, he said he'd never do that again. I've helped Ford friends, I never liked what I saw or got greasy with, and never liked the way they drove. Wrong guy to ask.

All that to say ...

The GenIII and GenIV SBC platform is freaking nuts. You can stuff so much power in, cheaply, that it's a no-brainer. They're good for 150k-200k miles if cared for. It's the transmissions behind them that often suck donkey nuts. I'm shocked if I ever found an original, unmolested 4l60e that ran more than 140k miles w/o probs. I find the GMT400 and GMT800 trucks to be plasticky, be prone to exterior water leaks (especially cowl and roof), and that's why I ditched my '98 Sierra to pay for my 1st Gen Tundra - There was a specific leak inside the cowl, down into the fresh air intake box I couldn't solve, and a gaping hole in the dash b/c it cracked to bits.

All of the 1st gens and some 2nd gens had frame rust issues if driven in areas that salt their roads. This should be your #1 concern when hunting for a 1st Gen Tundra (or some early 2nd Gen). Never trust "it came from California" as a sign it won't have rust - inspect yourself in person. Several have come here after getting burned, and badly.

Platform-wise, there are a dozen guys - if not multiple dozen - on here who are in the high 200s, high 300s, and some even in the 600k-800k range on mileage with only regular maintenance, and expected part replacements (starters, alternators, etc). The biggest cause of problems is owner failure, not using OEM parts (non-OEM lower ball joints especially, but that's another story), there are very few flaws. I understand there were some planetary issues that caused grenading in the '00-'01 (maybe '02). If you tow a lot, this may be a concern. I don't know a ton about this issue or what it affected.

I have a later-model 1st Gen today. The '05-'06 added VVTi, and extra emissions with the secondary air injection pump, which can also be a pain when it goes out, there are bypass kits. Mine is low-mile. Low-mile isn't always a good thing at this age, solely because most low-mile trucks at this age got there from lots of short-trip driving, which tends to varnish the hell out of things. You should see my heads. In hindsight, I should've probably hunted out a Tundra in the 125k-175k mile range, which seems to be a good "break-in" range for the drivetrain. Yes, the I'm-about-ready-for-a-rebuild range for GM drivetrains of the same years is the break-in range for Toyota. Seriously.

The only other downside I'd toss out is if you happen to live in an area with rodents. Apparently there's some soy used in the plastics and wire casings, which rodents love. So, say you're in the mountains of West VA, or you happen to park your truck outside in TX, it's not unusual for rodents to get under the intake manifold and nest, taking out the starter wiring and knock sensors, or on top of the tank and chew through the wiring and plastic bits, or into the intake to chew up air filters, get into the hoses and into the truck, chewing up misc wiring behind the dash. It's rare, but you want to know everything, so if your parking resembles this, be aware...

If you're looking for a truck to lift 6-8", and hoping it'll be inexpensive, a 1st Gen Tundra is probably not for you, the aftermarket support seems to be growing, but it's just not there today.

If you're looking for a truck you can turn into a tire peeler with cheap mods like the GMT400 and GMT800 platforms, a 1st Gen Tundra is probably not for you. Not to disappoint, but Toyota tuned the hell out of this engine, the aftermarket K&N air intakes and other gimmicky bullshit have proven generally worthless.

tl;dr -- After my 1st Gen experience, I don't see myself ever owning another Ford, nor owning another GM truck built after 1972. I do see myself stuffing plenty more 4.7/5.3/5.7/6.0 GM GenIII/GenIV engines into vehicles they weren't intended for! But my next Truck is almost definitely going to be another Toyota.

Get the 1st Gen. Just watch out for frame rust, and make sure the timing belt has been changed within the last 10yr/100k miles (OEM reco is 9yr/90k).

PS - '04 may be the sweet spot on these trucks - newer tech, but w/o VVTi, and w/o the SAIP. Just try to avoid getting a truck that has the VSC traction control if you do!

 

I wouldn’t do a Silverado bc of the electronics and transmissions. Also cylinder deactivation ones with miles can be problematic engine wise. I also wouldn’t do a 3.5 boost f150 that’s older with miles. More crap to go out with the turbos, some timing chain issues. I’m bias, and think first gens are the best because of size. Running around in town in one is more fun than f150’s or a silverado. For trails a first gen will fit better, and they are lighter. The big problem is finding one that’s not clapped out. 150k mile first gen with clean frame and well maintained is hell to find. If you don’t need the smaller footprint, you will probably have the most luck finding a good 5.0 f150 in your parameters and they are more capable and cheaper to work on. I would trust one to 250k easily, if taken care of.

 

I've had a 2001, Gen 1 Tundra since new and it's been totally reliable. It had O2 sensors replaced under warranty, other than that just maintenance. Ride is okay but it has a few squeaks from the dash. The mileage is abysmal, around 15 mpg in most conditions, maybe high 16's at a steady 65 mph. The AC is great and has never been serviced, it still blows low 40's F in SoCal temperatures. Zero oil consumption between oil changes.
My dislikes are a timing belt needing periodic replacement, the starter motor on top of the motor under the manifold, turning a normally easy job to replace into a weekend long project, the turning radius is poor, less than stellar brakes, and for me the driving ergonomics are bad. But the reliability factor is why I don't sell it and find something else, what would I replace it with? So I still have it. No truck will be perfect, and I value a truck that will not need constant repairs and my Tundra hits the mark for that.

 

I drove a first gen tundra for a bit during highschool and eventually upgraded to 17' tacoma. Creature comforts goes to the tacoma but the powertrain is lacking. Now here I am looking to go back to the tundra platform.

 

@shifty` I'm surprised you didn't go with a manual tranny for the GMT400 and GMT800 platforms for longevity or is that only available for a plain jane truck?

 

my big beef with the ecoboost v6 is the timing-chain driven waterpump... although, today i saw an old man on the road in a dirty truck with those turbos screaming. Impressivly.

 

More of a "you jump on what you can find on a 25yo truck". This last GMT400 ext cab I had before getting the 1GT fully loaded, came with almost every option possible for a 2WD, leather, the whole shebang, only 80k miles, straight southern body that stayed in ATL its whole life, zero rust and the guy wanted $3,800 for it because the clearcoat had failed, bed was banged up from hauling rocks for water garden use, A/C wasn't working, headliner was cut up, seats messed up, and had a water leak into the cab from multiple places. I fixed everything except the paint, seats, and that goddamn cowl water leak, which was impossible to permanently fix. Oh, and it only fit in the garage with 1"-2" clearance, if I put the front bumper on the back wall of the garage. EDIT: I could also tell the tranny wasn't shifting perfectly, but with the 4l60e you don't change the fluid if you don't know the history, and I had no history. It often had a delay in 2nd and 3rd shift.

I hear it really, really sucks on the double cabs compared to access cabs. The turning radius on my '06 AC is stellar compared to every other pickup I've had. It's the one thing I never complain about. I can easily bust a full U-turn on any 2 lane road without jumping a curb.

 

I have a client that runs a coal mining operation that runs the 3.5 trucks in his fleet. He told me they have never had a problem with them, and his employees beat the hell out of them. He cuts bait a little over 200k usually to start over on the depreciation schedule. They are tough engines, but I wouldn't want to run an old one with high miles. I have owned multiple f150's with both engines, and the 3.5 is the most fun. The 3.5 high output with forged internals beats both. Wouldn't mind owning a blown 5.0.

 

I've got the baby boost 2.7 in a 2018 Supercab and it scoots when I give it the ole stinky sock. Tis fun. Great little engine.

 

My first several trucks were Ford F150's. I put several hundred thousands miles on them, and found them to be unreliable electric wise after 150-200k miles. My last truck was a 2012 Tundra 5.7, 4x4 and it was an AMAZING truck. Current truck is a 2005 double cab with the 4.7, and it's a great truck. If I were you, I'd look for a clean first gen Tundra. You'll find it to be far more reliable for higher miles than any of the domestic brands. Just my 2 cents worth. Plus the first gen Tundra is easier to wrench on yourself, if that's your thing.

 

All of this.

 

Its a toyota....where other people talk about their old trucks with 150K on them....we talk about our trucks with 300K on them and plan for another 300K.

But yeah, gas milage sucks...handling has never been completely what I wanted if I had a choice.

Honestly the #1 reason I got my tundra is that a few years ago they where dirt cheap compared to a Tacoma, with bigger engines etc to boot.

 

I agree almost with everything except 05-06 is what you want. The VVTI and 5-speed are worth it hands down.

And the VSC traction control makes it much more modern as far as safety systems go. And the fancy brake booster really does have a much better modern braking feel.

I’m at 310k and all my systems are functioning perfect, minus my tailgate latch needing to be adjusted.

 

Only reasons I would disagree:

I bought '05-'06 because the power ratings were higher. I've recently driven an '03 DC and it totally felt way peppier than mine. Had I known about the SAIP issues, SAIP only being something on the '05-'06, strong chance I'd have held out for an '04. I don't regret having an '06, but that's one more thing I don't want to deal with later.

And for VSC, some of the parts are unobtanium. I've seen a handful of guys w/VSC-loaded trucks who had the yaw rate sensor croak or throwing codes. Can't get a replacement. Likewise, seems the VSC-loaded trucks tended to have something weird about the brakes, like an unusually expensive MC? Or one that's unavailable? One more thing to go wrong, that you can't fix with new OEM parts.

I'm glad I've got the last production year. The kinks were mostly all ironed out. I do worry about the parts stuff though, and I'm going to loathe if/when my SAIP finally shits the bed. I'll end up replacing it, I think, or wait until someone comes up with an easier delete option. I'd honestly prefer something that got installed directly in its place and mimicked it, but I doubt anyone will ever make such a thing.

 

@Shifty As you've noticed in the other thread I'm trying to nail down what year tundra to search out. I had an '02 that was extremely reliable and I'm hoping that the next one I will find will be the same. I'm drawn to an 05/06 because of the extra power from the VVTI but I really like simple. I've been looking into the downfalls of some of the newer parts of the 05/06 like the secondary air pump. What's SAIP? I know what VSC is but didn't know people were having problems with it. Can you expound on these or send me a link with more discussion on this topic?

 

So far I feel like the canary in the coal mine with my 20+ year old 02 Tundra.

Body mounts? Who replaces those? Apparently I do after 20 years and having one let go. Rusted out fuel line? Oh, yeah that line to the rail is obsolete and can’t be purchased as an aftermarket item.

Two windshield replacements have also led to premature rusting under the windshield and leaks. I’ll be more diligent in making sure it’s done right on my next vehicle.

I fear to find out what’s next with my frame rusting from inside out. All said, I don’t think I made a bad choice on my first brand new vehicle. I only wish I could buy another 7/8 full size Tundra where you can still see the road in front of the grill.

 

SAIP = Secondary Air Injection Pump or whatever. You mentioned that.

Avoid trucks with this two-part master cylinder: https://www.tundras.com/threads/im-at-my-wits-end-master-cylinder-issues.39933/

I personally would avoid trucks with VSC also. In the later years, 05-06, I think the VSC button is typically in the center dash, to the left of where the 4HI/4LO buttons are.

The newer trucks are also nicer, at least with the AC/RC, because they have bigger brakes and are more powerful. The earlier gen guys often complain about shit brakes. The later gen guys with DC complain about their brakes. I personally f'n love the brakes in my '06 AC, they grab nice, better than any GM truck I've ever owned, and I've owned plenty. Not as grippy as our 2020 Highlander, but that's a different, way-more-modern beast.

 

It honestly keeps me up at night, knowing that when these vehicles finally die, and I need a 'new' 20 year old vehicle...nothing like what we have now will exist. I don't think I have the words to properly express my hatred of vehicle design from the last ten years or so. (not to mention, none of them will actually be functional in 20 years)

 

You’re not alone. I wish I knew what drives these new body style design choices they make. They are UAF.

 

Same thing with motorcycles. The styling of new M/C's leaves me cold. And what's with new trucks with these low profile tires, that look more like "O" rings instead of a truck tire.

 

It's not even the styling for me but the cost. Paying $50k+ for a vehicle is insane to me.

 

I’d buy the nicest cat eye you can find and cam it. The gmt 800 was the last good truck gm built. Get ready to launch the 10 bolt and 4Lslippy.

 

Is it wrong to say I would still buy a rust free 1999 2-door Tahoe in pewter with the drop tailgate today?

 

That's what happens when manufacturers work out that they can get a lot more dollar out of people when they take a utility vehicle, stick it on steroids, bling it up and sell it as something to decorate corporate parking lots. About as welcome to utility users as a pork sandwich at a bar mitzvah.

 

Not at all! Have a buddy with an LS swapped one, and it's badass

 

Yeah, it’d be perfect driving in the city with its short wheelbase and tight turning radius plus you’ll probably never see another one again after 23 years.

 

id honestly get the newest and lowest mileage truck of the three. I've owned a Tundra since 2006. I've also had a tahoe that went 270k on the original powertrain before I sold it. Most of my buddies have F150s and they have all held up. The biggest cost can be engine repairs. The GMs as mentioned typically have transmission issues before 200k, but rebuilt transmissions are cheap enough.

 

After being burned by a few mopars, I switched to Toyota back in 2015. My most recent truck before the tundra was a 97 ranger 4x4 I bought from my uncle. It took me a year to find my truck but it was absolutely worth the wait. I’ve had fords and chevys before (not halfton trucks) but didn’t consider anything else other than a tundra. I’ll stick with the Japanese way of life for vehicles forever.