1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

No, you can see where the flex line connects to this box the register is screwed over. It's just a box with foil on the outside and some kind of foam on the inside. No metal, it's pliable. Looks gypsy as hell, but I'm no HVAC pro. Here's a better picture of the mangle I want to address:

 

These are the two I've typically seen in most homes I've had to deal with. The one on the left, I suspect is what yours is, but it's wrapped with foil insulation and the flange was cut out. Or it could be that they used a standard box and lined it with HVAC duct fiberboard. The one on the right is what is throughout my house, and I prefer, but it can rust out. I'm not sure what the benefit is using the one on the left. The one on the left, that outlet is what your flex should be connected to, and that outlet is what I suspect the fingers are in your picture.

But they may've janked it together, using the typical insulated box you use at the air handler, cut their own hole, used their own outlet, and tossed some shit inside. You never know. Stupid shit like that is why I prefer to do my own damn work. Too many people are more interested in janky shortcuts than doing the job right.

 

When I built this house, the HVAC installer did a terrible job. I have had hell with the unit since day one. They didn't hang the vents in the attic, just laying tangled everywhere. The inside unit was not elevated properly, rusted out and met an early demise. I recently got some of it fixed up, as I'm going to deck the attic and use it for storage. Here's the after, wish I would have taken a before picture. This is just one side above the living room.

 

Not sure why there is fiberglass insulation batting inside the airbox.

 

Looks like your electrician was sloppy af also, not following joists and headers, not fastening romex to the structure. That shit wouldn't fly with me and it'll make your life decking things out difficult. At least they didn't do anything stupid like notching anything providing support, I guess?

Anyway, one tip on the decking. It's possible Lowes sells this also, but Home Depot has pre-cut 2'x4' attic flooring boards, waferboard, I think it's called Attic Pine Oriented Strand Board. When I did a big section of my attic 10-12 years ago, it was like $3.50/board, way cheaper than the plastic mesh kits you buy on scAmazon etc. I suspect the price has gone up since, especially with lumber being as stupid-expensive as it is now. But it may be an option.

Giving you a link to the type of product I'm talking about here. I'm really genuinely hoping this is a pack of 4 boards or something, I can't imagine these planks cost this much, but I'm also shocked a standard sheet of 5/8" waferboard costs $50+ right now also.

 

I'm pretty sure that's the 'black' fiberboard that's inside those baffle boxes. I see what looks like jagged metal just inside the sheet rock, and the 'fiberglass' is above that. I'm thinking someone cut the flange off the original insulated box in the ceiling, cut right through the fiberboard (which is painted black on the side you get to see) and you're seeing the midsection. Think medium-rare steak. Nice and brown with black sear lines on the outside, but perfectly deep pink in the middle.

Why would anyone do that? Who the hell knows. Or maybe they totally cut the bottom out of the box, or built their own. People in any industry do wack ass shit to save a buck so it'll be one more buck in their pocket. Sadly, a lot of the people doing it are our (or at least my) generation, and they're teaching the younger guys to do the same.

But I could also be wrong. It's tough to say, not being there in person. I bet @FrenchToasty has some fun field horror stories to share.

 

I would find a way to cover all of that exposed fiberglass. Foil duct tape perhaps.

 

That wiring. I think I'm gonna have an aneurysm. Find that electrician and slap the fuck outta him for me. We have a thing called the 20 inch rule where you can't run over joists like that unless it's 20" or less clearance to the roof.

 

I dunno, just makes your work output seem that much more valuable, in that perspective it's kinda nice I guess?

If I were an electrician and I did res vs. com, I'd have a portfolio of pictures like this, followed by pictures of my work after. Just to stress how budget work or the cheapest labor isn't better and costs you in the long run.

Doing runs like that may've saved them 5-10% in material costs, tops. Now txagg has hours of hassle to clean it all up, where possible. Some of that is impossible to tidy up without splicing in a new segment with added junction boxes.

I don't even work in the industry and seeing pics of shit like this makes my blood steam. Have some love for your craft. Don't treat a customer's roof like the trunk of your car, or the junk drawer in your kitchen.

 

Electrician wasn't as bad as the HVAC guy. Most of the stuff you see was my doing. Surround sound and multiple speaker zones, security camera runs, etc. I do have a funny story though, paid the electrician some extra on the side to run all the network and speaker wire. Obviously it was out of his crews wheelhouse. Came to look at it and his guys had ran the speaker wire in series!! He was pissed!

 

In that case, shame on you!

I noticed the black speaker runs, I assume that's speaker. I mean, at least it won't blow anything run in series. Imagine if he wired everything in parallel. Bye bye amp!

But the yellow and orange romex is what caught my eye, the yellow especially. I think it might've triggered the OCD in me a little bit.

 

Now that I take another look at it, I think you're right. Terrible job with the wiring. I'm probably going to do some furring strips and then put down OSB. I might not be doing anything at this point, as I purchased a lot to build another one earlier this week. This house was built for cost by a client of mine that builds spec houses. I think the problem is because it was so far away, their super didn't keep an eye on the work at all. I didn't have the heart to complain to the builder about it. I had a huge amount of instant equity in this house, and its of fair quality. Spray foam insulation, engineered foundation, spider in the walls, 2x6 exterior, granite countertops, etc. It's a shame the subs had no pride in their work though.

 

If you mean the different color, orange is #10 and yellow is #12. That gray though, that's #8. And it's aluminum, which is the same as #10 copper, so it defeats the purpose. I'm betting the panel feeders are AL as well. Copper is stupid expensive right now.

 

That appears to be blowed foam in between roof rafters ? Are they not required to put bats or blown insulation between ceiling joists above living room or I’m not seeing what I’m seeing

 

My townhouse was built in the 80s and has the exact same thing. Vent is hanging on by one screw on my popcorn ceiling.

 

my buddy that does home automation does that.

the jobs he does now they prewire their racks so everything is labeled all ocd like.

 

No need in a closed setup like this. No ridge vent or ventilation otherwise in the attic. It's like a huge yeti cooler up there. In 100 degree weather, its comfortable in the attic. For a 3300 or so sqft house, my electric bill averages 150 or so. That's with an electric water heater and heat pump. Only thing that isn't electric is my range and grill out back. Might have seen over 200 a time or two in the heat of the summer, but that was when the ac was in need of repair.

 

Yea, sprayed in foam is the ticket for metal buildings. Told the guys to spray it all, knowing i could cut it for some turbine vents, but havent needed em yet. But i put my doors where i can have a breeze no matter which way the wind is blowing.

 

Nah, I know about the colors and gauge, just saying those seem to be the ones I'd expect to have more organization due to the quantity and purpose. I assumed the flatter grey stuff was panel feed, but I'd never seen flat-ish cable for that, only round feeds. I've never even heard of using aluminum conductors in residential. I've never seen panel feeds installed in a way that no effort was made to mitigate risk of them getting nicked, stabbed or otherwise.

 

I'd be curious to know what they are for. The wall that picture is looking at is where the main box is located, its on that outside wall. I do have a septic system on the other side of the house with its own box. Also had a 220 wired to the garage, which is the same side as the septic.

 

I bought into the same wiring disaster as you. When it came to deck out the attic for new HVAC system, I ended up getting a load of 2" X 2" 8' sticks, ran them on the existing wood joists, glued & screwed. Made channels for the existing wires and conduit/flex! Had the chop saw up with me, took about 5 hours to "modify" and complete the floor. It's all good now!

 

I mean, I'm assuming it's still single phase power, and the electricians here can correct me, but 220 in the US is typically just 110 with two hot feeds (each hot wire terminating to its own hot breaker pole, sort of), so nothing special there except 4 conductor wire (load, load, neutral, ground) instead of 3 conductor (load, neutral, ground) and a double-wide breaker (I'm sure there's a proper name for that). The two 110v legs make for 220v.

220 outlets usually require higher-amperage line, so you're stepping up to #8 or #6 4-conductor to handle the added load (for 40-50A) or at least #10 if it were 30A, but I can't recall the last time I saw a 220v/30A feed. EDIT: This isn't my day-to-day, so maybe it's more normal than I've seen.

 

I wanna run 3 phase, but told myself i need a mill or lathe first.

depending on what size generator i find, i might run it off that.

 

I run 220/240/30A to my belt grinder. I wouldn't consider it typical. More like 220/50A+ for my welder as an example.

 

The big gray stuff is panel feeders, usually 1/0, 1/0, 1/0, 4 if aluminum. Those are probably 8/2 feeding the condenser and W/H.

Depends on if it needs a neutral. We'll run 10/2, 8/2, 6/2, or 4/2 (2 hots and a ground) for 30, 40/50, 60-90, or 100amp circuits like heaters, WHs, condensers, welders. Anything that doesn't need a neutral pretty much. Ranges and panel feeders are always 3 conductor(you only count the conductors, not the ground). And a 2 wide breaker is a double pole or 2 pole. A triple is always 3 pole.

 

I'm happy with the .75" Bora wheel spacers on my setup, but I'm ordering Stahl steel ones. That will give me a set of 1.25 and .75 which I listed/plan to list for sale. But, I wonder if any 1st Gen guys would benefit or be interested in a pass-around for test fitting? Maybe the pool is too small or the only ones interested have only been here for a week...I wouldn't really be fired up sending $200-300 in parts to someone we don't know.

 

I figured that's where the panel was. It probably feeds a W/H, condersor, or cooktop. Something along those lines.

 

We actually ran 3 phase 20A 208v to the belt sanders here at the school.

 

I looked at a large bag of grass seed the other day cutting through home despot garden center. $145. WTF?

 

That's after you made it better?
My house is 110 years old & balloon frame. It has it's challenges & the furnace appears to be from late 1930's, but I know the house was well built by men who had pride in a job well done. I honestly don't know if I could buy something built like that. Remodeled homes make me a nervous buyer.
I'm having a hell of a time finding tradesmen who 'do that'. Ton of guys who 'can do that', few who do that. Professional Trades(wo)men are a vanishing breed.