General Supercharger Thread

HP Tuners needs to put on a tuning for dummies video.

walk thru all the stuff at a high level.

how stuff depends on other stuff.

 

They do on their youtube channel

 

hold my calls for the next hour or so.

I now have a mission.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFkbIhCV8PSLXZclpqIfHC_SQBffoFnfT

 

great...Alex Pietz is doing the supercharger video...I'm not even joking.

 

I posted on the HP Tuners thread, see if the tuning Gods on there have any thought. Something to add: the truck should run if you remove the MAF, which means there's a base fueling table somewhere. I assume that table is what's multiplied during power enrichment, and the MAF just tweaks those values when cruising. The fact the MAF isn't a critical component and the truck can function without it, does lend more merit to the idea that the voltage cap doesn't matter in power enrichment.

@nobodyintexas 90% of the HP Tuners stuff I've learned is from this thread: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?81934-Toyota-Repository

 

Muchos gracias.

 

I will now be busy for days. GOOOOOD stuff

..and not have to pay attention to the damn auditors.

I thank you immensely

 

I’d just take what I said with a grain of salt since it was likely poorly understood and translated on my end. If I did interpret it right though I am interested in the answer to these questions. I don’t want to give anyone a bad rep based on misinterpretation of information. At the end of the day I trust my tuner whole-heartedly that they know what’s best for my truck, and I guess that’s all that matters for most of us since a lot of us will never really understand this wizardry!

 

Wizardry is right.

I need to go do some Tai-Chi meditation after reading through a few posts on the HP Tuners forum. @snivilous thanks for posting that question.

those dudes know some serious stuff about tuning. What kind of person can recite that info into a forum post at will?

wizardy, I tell ya.

 

It’s “not formally launched yet” but there shall soon be more remote tuning options - Prospeed. Good chance they will only do it if you use their 750cc injectors and make some other changes they may deem as required based on the drop down menus.

https://www.prospeedautosports.com/...-remote-tuning-service?variant=42027694260390

 

so I asked one of the flat-belly auditors (25yrs old) if he would ever supercharge his car.

he did not know what a supercharger was.

we are lost as a nation.

 

Don't worry, I'm less than a handful of years older and have two plus a turbocharged vehicle, so I can cancel him out

 

Have to go to *Engine Diag* to control MIL/codes with HP. Don’t follow the latest in tuning but believe this is or was an advantage for HP vs. others. I looked through a TRD tune and the P0101 was not disabled.

 

Cool! I had no idea you could do that. Now the question is should it be turned off or not? I still get the code occasionally, at least since winter has come.

 

Just checked my current tune file. Mine is also not disabled, yet anyway. It was also said that some not all of the trd files were like that.

 

The MAF measures the amount of air going into the engine and is the most important sensor that is involved in the fuel delivery calculation.
It is used both during closed loop and open loop operation.

During closed loop (light load/cruise), the ECU looks at the MAF, injects a certain amount of fuel based on the MAF reading and then looks at the A/F sensor output.
If the A/F sensor says the mixture is leaner than stoichiometric (14.6-14.7:1 AFR), it will increase the short term fuel trim to add more fuel.
Conversely, if the A/F sensor reads richer than stoich, the ECU will decrease the short term fuel trim to inject less fuel.
If the short term fuel trim stays positive or negative for a while, the ECU will change the long term fuel trim to compensate and try to bring short term fuel trim close to zero.
If the combined fuel trim (short term+long term) exceeds +/-35%, the ECU will set system too rich/system too lean fault codes.

During open loop (moderate/heavy load, based on the power enrichment throttle angle input), the ECU looks at the MAF only and ignores the A/F sensors.
It will inject fuel based on the MAF, RPM and fuel enrichment tables.
It does not care what the actual AFR is and has no safety built into it if the engine runs super lean or super rich, other than backing off ignition timing based on knock sensor output.

The MAF voltage goes up as the airflow increases and the maximum MAF voltage is 5 volts.
Once there is enough airflow through the intake pipe and the MAF is maxed out, it cannot read any further air mass that is going through the intake pipe.
If the MAF stays at 5 volts for longer than 3 seconds, P0103 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit High Input fault code is set.
The smaller the intake pipe diameter, the less air mass will be needed before the MAF is maxed out, therefore with the stock NA pipe one can only push so much air through it before the MAF hits the ceiling.
The ECU will inject fuel based on the 5 volt MAF reading, regardless of how much air is going through the intake pipe, so the AFR will start leaning out as RPM increases, since the ECU cannot measure that extra air.
This can be somewhat adjusted for in the tune by enriching the mixture more as RPM increases past the point where the MAF is maxed out.
However, the best way to address this is to increase the intake pipe diameter and re-scale the MAF table accordingly, which will result in lower MAF voltage reading for the same amount of airflow.

P0101 code is not related to the MAF being maxed out.
It is set when the calculated vehicle load does not match the expected MAF output for that load level and the fuel trim is under -15% or over 15% under certain throttle conditions.
It is generally related to the MAF table not being scaled correctly for the intake pipe diameter.
Can also happen if you operate the vehicle at a very high altitude since that will affect the density/mass of the air going into the intake pipe.
Neither the p0101 or P0103 code will affect the way the vehicle runs when they are set and both can be disabled with HPTuners if one wishes.

 

Agreed with Shrek on the 4.5" intake made by a certain company. It sucks most of its air from inside the engine bay and will result in elevated intake temps.
I would instead recommend buying a Magnuson upper airbox lid which comes with a 4" MAF pipe and doing the SABM mod.
I did not max out the MAF reading in the 4" intake pipe until I hit over 10 PSI.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Sounds like the concern for the MAF voltage is not ill-founded. I think if I upgrade the intake that is the route I’d go, I believe those of us with 2014+ trucks also have to get the bottom airbox portion for 07-13 trucks too since the magnuson lid is made for that lower box (so I’ve been told). I just checked some WOT logs I did and I was at 5.0 volts on the MAF from about 47mph to 63mph so I’m definitely at the ceiling, but got no codes from it yet (must have been under 3 secs)

Edit: Also, how do you handle your MAF voltage when you’re flowing so much air on your truck?

 

Yes, for the 2014+ trucks you will also need the stock 2007-2013 lower airbox (I think it can be bought from Magnuson as well, but would be cheaper to buy a used one from a wrecker or eBay or someone who installed a "cold" air intake on their trucks.
Here is my SABM video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8UMEi9bDQQ&t

On my current setup, I run a 5" diameter intake that I made and it almost maxes the MAF out even with that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2V5BV9DrTk&t

 

Thank you for the explanation Victor!

 

this is the most nutrient dense post I've read in a long time.<I'm bowing at the waist in humble appreciation>

I think I may have understood most of it. this info filled a few of my vast caverns of ignorance. and it jived with my understanding of what I THOUGHT the MAF was doing. confirmation bias is a bitch.

I have limited knowledge in this tuning stuff and, like @Silver17 alluded to, it is now easier for me to interpret what my tuner told me.
I am limited based on what I told the Tuner. the 80mm Harrop is blowing damn near 5 volts. and if I want more, I need to do more to the air inlet. my tuner just worded it different - he used tuner-wizard vernacular, of which I have an immensely hard time interpreting (as evidenced by all this MAF talk).

I express my deepest appreciation for the stewardship.

Sometimes I feel like a plebe asking the grand council of Poo-Bahs dumb questions. and then various Poo-Bahs take the time to address my questions with compassion.

good stuff.

I'll buy lunch if y'all are ever in East Houston.

 

@nobodyintexas
With the 80mm pulley, does boost come on sooner than with the 85? Blower any louder?
I do realize you did not have much time driving stage 1 tuned.

 

sooner, yes.
louder, yes.
faster, yes.
thirstier, YES. 80 will drink gas - maybe it's the bigger injectors.

if you can get it to hook, it's awesome. 2nd & 3rd gear are mean. the TQ digs in deep in those gears.

However - it will cruise @60mph doing 19mpg.

 

Over the past month I purchased 4 07-13 air boxes from various auto-recyclers/EBay. All 4 arrived broken from shipping, ended up with 1 good air box from the parts of all 4.

This one looks nice, tried buying awhile back but don’t think the seller was interested in shipping at the time.
https://www.tundras.com/threads/2nd-gen-air-intake-box-complete.91642/#post-2596852

 

as @snivilous said...you have to be in 4Hi to launch.

anything else is tire smoke.

 

Thanks! Ironically I found and inquired about that one this morning!

 

Might have a good lower, have another one arriving Monday, obviously not much luck shipping so have to see how it looks on arrival. Thought I bought all of the cheap ones, missed this one. Have to buy from vehicles not hit on passenger front or the box is broken every time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Cleaner-8-Cylinder-Fits-07-10-14-16-TUNDRA-2423540-/154789202641

 

@snivilous and @ViktorG I was thinking more about this MAF voltage issue. If when my tune is finished and I check my AFR through the rev range and it is plenty rich all the way through at WOT, does it realistically matter if I don’t address the MAF? I’ve only hit the 5 volts at full throttle pulls based on my logs. For all I know it could be just barely cresting that airflow that reads 5v…but I guess there is no way of knowing. I understand i could maybe be missing out on power if it’s overly rich, but is it something I need to address right away if AFR is safe? I hate to go through the whole entire remote tuning process again after just getting it dialed in. Not sure what a retune will cost me, I know the MAF will have to be rescaled for the bigger magnuson lid. Is that a nightmare or is it not too time consuming if the tuner has some base lines already figured out from doing it before?

 

Good questions.

and...can I monitor my MAF Voltage on my scanguage?

it has a "MAF" code, but does not give a value.

I have searched the site scanguage site...