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Payload Stickers?

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by AnalysisParalysis, Dec 10, 2021.

  1. Dec 23, 2021 at 11:33 AM
    #211
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Well when they weight as much as a steel body F150 with a 7700 lb GVWR, then they are not the same. According to Toyota, the max GVWR for the iForce Max crew cab is going to be 7780 lbs, in a truck that weighs north of 6000 lbs.

    So far all the door stickers I have seen for the regular iforce are closer to 7000 lbs, which is in line with an aluminum F150 that is 6-700 lbs lighter. Why have such a low GVWR if the truck is so much beefier?
     
  2. Dec 23, 2021 at 11:38 AM
    #212
    OnThaLake

    OnThaLake New Member

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    Since F150 capacity occasionally gets brought up, it should be noted that Ford offers 3 classes of frame for the F150....
    Light duty frame: only available on NA V6 and certain EB 2.7 configuration. This gets the best non-hybrid mpgs
    Standard frame: pretty much what most F150s get. Also only one available on Powerboost, and I think Platinum. The payload capacity of these isn't much different than the new Tundra.
    Heavy duty frame: only available on certain EB 3.5 and 5.0 V8 configurations. This is where you see around 3,000 pounds capacity. These trucks are less common and also have different brakes.

    I don't know how the current F150 lineup compares to the previous steel body ones, but they may not be comparable anymore.
     
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  3. Dec 23, 2021 at 11:45 AM
    #213
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    The payload capacity of the Standard frames are quite a bit different than the Tundra. I've personally seen a 3.5L Ecoboost Crew cab 4x4 with the STX package with a payload sticker close to 2100 lbs. HD frame trucks are in another league. There are guys on the F150 forum with HD Payload crew cab 4x4 XLT's that have 2500+ lbs of payload.

    Fully loaded Lariats and King Ranches are coming in around 1500 lbs +/- depending on options.
     
    OnThaLake[QUOTED] likes this.
  4. Dec 23, 2021 at 11:48 AM
    #214
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    So, why wouldn't Toyota simply copy Ford's frames? Surely Toyota wouldn't choose to use a less capable or durable or reliable component?
     
  5. Dec 23, 2021 at 11:57 AM
    #215
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Like i said, I think they are just super conservative with the GVWR. I have no doubt in my mind that the Tundra is every bit as strong as an F150 or GM. Maybe stronger.

    The fact that the Tundras have aluminum hoods and doors and a composite bed and still outweigh a similarly equipped F150 by 500 lbs tells me they are probably a little beefier underneath.
     
  6. Dec 23, 2021 at 3:14 PM
    #216
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Vehicles absorb energy in a crash mainly through plastic deformation of the steel. In other words, you want a structure that yields easily. If your vehicle has a strong structure, it will absorb less energy in a crash, and occupants will be subjected to higher G forces.

    The F150 HDPP frames have a .11" wall, and a 49.3k psi yield strength. If someone with a '22 Tundra or access to one would like to get their caliper out and take some measurements, that would be interesting.

    I think the odds are good that the Tundra frame, brakes, axles, and bearings are at least as robust as the F150 HDPP. The Tundra will have weaker springs and probably tires, because the Tundra is spec'd to ride smooth with no load, hence the low payload.
     
  7. Dec 26, 2021 at 9:05 AM
    #217
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    Just for comparison’s sake, here’s my FIL’s F150 SuperCrew EcoBoost XLT 4x4 sticker. This stings a little bit, not gonna lie. :oops:
    5D231F5E-0081-45A8-8EED-19CFC79377F9.jpg
    Edit: it has a rear e-locker, too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
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  8. Dec 26, 2021 at 1:00 PM
    #218
    OnThaLake

    OnThaLake New Member

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    Sorry if I missed it, have we still not figured out how Toyota is advertising 1900 and so far no one has seen anything close to that?
     
  9. Dec 26, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    #219
    Nm6300'asl

    Nm6300'asl New Member

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    Toyota is advertising 1940 lb payload on a 2wd dc sr5. If you look at the SUPER fine print in Toyota speak, Payload is for "comparison sake only" and the load capacity sticker is on the door panel. There is no 1940 payload Tundra, period.


    That being said, if one does the math for what should be payload they will find a difference of around 385 lbs. Seems like Toyota being conservative adds 2-150 lb passengers and 85 lb hitch. Check out rated payload vs door sticker. I am not happy they are pulling big 3 ratings shit, this all should be simple j2807 tow ratings.

    Screenshot_20211223-105204_Chrome.jpg
     
  10. Dec 26, 2021 at 10:42 PM
    #220
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    what does the big 3 do that is so bad? Ford literally has a table with the weight of every single option you can get. You can hand calculate the exact payload of your F150 and when I calculated it for my truck it was almost dead on to the door sticker. Maybe 50 lbs off but i may have missed something.

    and then when I cat scaled my F150 it was actually 20 lbs lighter than the door sticker said with a full tank of gas and me not in the truck. I even had a car seat base in it, some crap in the console, and a set of air bags in the rear.
     
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  11. Dec 28, 2021 at 10:54 AM
    #221
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Would anyone who currently owns a 2017 (or older) Regular Cab 4WD standard bed Tundra, mind sharing the payload from their door jam sticker?
    I'd like to compare it to the payload of a 2022 SR5 DC 4WD 6.5' bed.
    Thank you!
     
  12. Dec 28, 2021 at 12:29 PM
    #222
    Melikeymy beer

    Melikeymy beer No cooler for you!

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    So I looked at a 21 Titan CM this morning with only a 26 gal fuel tank and no sun roof. The trim was comparable to an SR5. Payload was 1377.
     
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  13. Dec 28, 2021 at 4:16 PM
    #223
    Pac12AfterDark

    Pac12AfterDark New Member

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    Some things never change. New gen, same arguments.
     
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  14. Dec 28, 2021 at 5:46 PM
    #224
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr guzzling dealer repellent

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    I’m curious to see if the 3rd gen is as conservatively rated as the 2nd. Fully boxed frame, but composite bed and slightly lower rear axle rating than before.
     
  15. Dec 28, 2021 at 5:55 PM
    #225
    Pac12AfterDark

    Pac12AfterDark New Member

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    Agreed, but I am personally done fighting that battle.

    Life suggests next truck needs to be a 3/4 ton. Was optimistic this new tundra would fit my next truck camper plans.

    Oh well - beautiful truck, just not enough function.
     
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  16. Dec 28, 2021 at 6:20 PM
    #226
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Just to be clear, the lower axle rating doesn't mean the axle is weak. Could be the tires or springs that Toyota doesn't wish to warranty or be liable for a higher load.

    I posted the F150 frame specs earlier. If someone with a '22 Tundra would measure frame rail dimensions and wall thickness, we'd get a good idea of how they compare.
     
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  17. Dec 28, 2021 at 6:24 PM
    #227
    Melikeymy beer

    Melikeymy beer No cooler for you!

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    I can be at or slightly above my GVWR and 400 pounds below the front and rear axle ratings towing with my WDH.
     
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  18. Dec 28, 2021 at 6:36 PM
    #228
    Terndrerrr

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    I agree. The 3rd gen Tundra missed the mark on payload. The two most widespread complaints about the 2nd gen were payload and fuel economy. This is a HUGE miss for Toyota in my eyes, but how many of the truck-buying general public agree or even care at all? Like it or not, trucks have become status symbols. Truck buyers want the appearance of capability, but most of them just commute. Maybe they throw their bikes in the bed occasionally to drive to a trailhead or help a neighbor move a couch or something that actually requires the utility of a truck. But it’s the dad version of a minivan for most people. And most truck drivers care far more about the stance of the truck than its actual capability.

    And it makes me think that for all of us fretting on this forum about door jamb numbers, there are dozens and dozens of truck owners who don’t have a single clue. They look at the door jamb stickers like they look at the warning stickers on the backside of the visor—which is to say they don’t look at them at all. Most people are careful to tow within their limits, but don’t know that when they take a load of lumber and concrete home from HD that they’re over their GVWR. If the truck squats, they just add new leaf packs, airbags, or sumo springs, etc. and carry on.
    Yeah, there is a lot of room in my truck between GVWR (7200lb) and GAWR (4000lb FR/4150lb RR). For all the times I’ve been above GVWR, I’m still within my axle ratings.
     
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  19. Dec 28, 2021 at 6:56 PM
    #229
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    ... for 200,000 miles, with no issues...
     
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  20. Dec 28, 2021 at 6:57 PM
    #230
    Terndrerrr

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    Or a million miles carrying 2700 lb with no mods at all
     
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  21. Dec 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM
    #231
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Mike Sweers is a moron. In his interview with TFL Truck he said they didnt wanna fight the payload battle again, like they allegedly did in 2007(Ford had 1560 lbs payload for a 4x4 supercrew in 2007), but they didn't even match or come close.

    Don't give a truck a 12k lb tow rating if you are not gunna back it up with a realistic payload capacity. Realistically, the stickers we have seen in all of the trucks so far cannot tow 12k per the J2807 standard. 300 lbs of passengers plus I think 85 lbs for a WDH plus a 10% tongue weight is more than 1555 lbs.
     
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  22. Dec 29, 2021 at 10:19 AM
    #232
    Pac12AfterDark

    Pac12AfterDark New Member

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    Couldn't agree more.

    Then again as someone posted above, 95% of the truck market is not doing truck stuff. Just demigods of debt.

    Oh well, hopefully when the chip thing is sorted I can snag a bitchin deal ok a 3/4 ton.


    Oh also... "world beater" LOL.
     
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  23. Dec 29, 2021 at 10:21 AM
    #233
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    The annoying part is that they seem to have built the truck to be capable. The cooling system in it rivals that of gasser HD's and certainly the chassis SEEMS to be stout. It's like they got 1 yard from the goal line and just gave up.

    I have an F150 3.5L Ecoboost and the motor is incredibly stout. Like, it can easily tow anything that should be behind a half ton. Ford pulled the same move you are talking about though. They build the F150 for the 90% that don't really use their truck all that hard, but then the 10% that do push them hard find out mighty quick that they skimped on the cooling system. The radiators are out of a freaking minivan and the intercooler is boarderline worthless. Toyota's attempt at it fixes these problems but then they go and ruin it with the payload.

    The funny thing is, I bet we see iForce Max trucks come in with high 7000's GVWR with the exact same chassis and brakes and everything. Had they used the same GVWR on the regular trucks that weight 500 lbs less, we would see decent payload numbers. It's going to literally end up being a numbers game.
     
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  24. Dec 29, 2021 at 10:25 AM
    #234
    Retired...finally

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    Could the past history of rusting frames cause Toyota to rate the GVWR conservatively?
     
  25. Dec 29, 2021 at 11:38 AM
    #235
    Terndrerrr

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    I don’t think they gave up; I think they rate things conservatively across the board. Sweers was saying something in a TFL interview about how they really want to know that the truck is capable of what they say that it is. I think they choose lower numbers so people put less stress on their trucks and they keep the reputation for extremely long service lives. They are choosing to err on the side of caution.

    Although, as I’ve said before, the two million-mile Tundras carried loads over 1 ton regularly, and it didn’t affect their service lives at all.:notsure:
    I don’t think that had anything at all to do with the decision. Toyota just goes overboard with safety and with conservative ratings. I just wish a limited crewmax shortbed would have 1800lb of payload. 6.5ft bed crewmax? 2k lbs. Why couldn’t they have done that? Frustrating for the relatively few of us who are paying attention.
     
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  26. Dec 29, 2021 at 11:41 AM
    #236
    Mattedfred

    Mattedfred Toyota Fan Boy Since ‘04

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    Would anyone who currently owns a 2017 (or older) Regular Cab 4WD standard bed Tundra, mind sharing the payload from their door jam sticker?
     
  27. Dec 29, 2021 at 11:48 AM
    #237
    GODZILLA

    GODZILLA Hail to the King, Baby.

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    If I believed that most people weren't completely retarded sacks of meat in dire need of a good culling, then I would agree. However, I think it's more likely that the idiot masses just see a truck and think it will do anything they've seen other trucks do. They can't see beyond the end of their nose and just assume if it's got a bed you can pull whatever monstrosity of a camper you'd like. Sure, they want the appearance of capability, but they also conflate that appearance with actual capability. That's why so many are surprised when they come on the forum and are told about payload and that a 1/2 ton truck has no business with a 5th wheel even if it's "within the tow rating" and then try to blame Toyota.

    Half ton trucks are designed to be a more capable family vehicle these days. Says so in the owner manual. There's an open bed so you can move a fridge or a couch that won't fit in a minivan/SUV, and they have a better towing capability for small campers. That's all they've ever really been. If you need to haul heavy or tow big all the time, then you generally need more than what half tons are built for. That doesn't mean the half ton is a failure, it means the idiot buying it saw a bed and assumed it could haul their house. Same as the dipsticks that bitch and howl about a pickup not being able to pull 20,000 lbs. at 75-80 MPH when the owner manual states that you should be towing at 55-65 MPH.

    TLDR: Manufacturers are not responsible for idiot consumer assumptions. Never trust marketing, because they take full advantage of "fine print" to lie legally. Do your research before you buy.
     
  28. Dec 29, 2021 at 11:48 AM
    #238
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    It should probably be stated again that the payload is a bogus number. If the parts that matter on the Tundra are stout, and it can be easily and safely upgraded to haul a higher load, then you have nothing to worry about.
     
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  29. Dec 29, 2021 at 11:51 AM
    #239
    Turk980

    Turk980 Freedom Isn't Free

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    Very well said
     
  30. Dec 29, 2021 at 12:00 PM
    #240
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Thats not how a live though. I don't purposefully go out and buy a truck with the intention to overload it.

    I'll just buy a F150 HDPP with 2500 lbs of payload or F350 7.3L with 4000 lbs of payload instead and probably spend similar money. Was just hoping the Tundra was gunna be it.
     

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