General Supercharger Thread

Better safe than sorry. I've been considering pistons and rods with Stage 2. Really impressed with your tuned Stage 1 numbers though. Wonder what the duty cycle of the stock injectors were on that set up.

I need to follow up with my tuner shop to see if they are comfortable with the current tuners available but I really want to wait for HP tuners.

 

I’m at the limit of my current stock MAF

tune is awesome

bigger inlet is bigger power

I’m ok with this much power for now

Family stuff today. So I’ll report better tomorrow

 

Family stuff…..

 

From digging through old threads the MAF sensor seems to have some big limitations for a boosted application where they cant report air inflow above and below a certain range. @ViktorG talks about it in one of the threads; probably addressed in his super-build thread. Sounds like "upgrading" the MAF would require remapping the tables to the new values the replacement sensor can report.

As far as MAF vs Speed Density looks like the MAF is better suited for fuel economy and daily street use but stock systems use them as redundancy and for certain ranges of RPM operations. Its a common occurrence for a hand off between the two systems happen when determining fuel flow. Tuner software lets you change when the hand off occurs and what values are referenced.

Still trying to find the specs for the stock MAF (range and polling rate), it looks like some of the aftermarket MAF's used a 5psi rated sensor but these were tied to a piggy back system that no longer applies to the Tundra models we are concerned with.

As always I look forward to learning from any corrections and clarifications folks want to provide.

 

these are the injectors (top) pulley (Bottom)

 

dyno graphs on Monday

~9psi avg for stage 2

 

those new injectors seem to be standard fare for off-road Tundra folks.



unfair - the wife and daughter took the Tundra to Target..... I'm trimming trees!

 

Larger cross section means less density for the same airflow, which means the MAF reads lower. In regards to some people's comments, a larger intake is not necessarily about flowing more air but flowing more air than the MAF thinks it's moving. Flowing air through a paper towel tube, and the same amount through a 5 gallon drum, one has a lot more velocity but you're pumping the same amount of air, this is how you trick the MAF and work within it's flow measuring constraints.

 

THAT is what the tuner said! Thank you for putting it in words.

now, if I did this, yes, we could tune in more power - but I voted to stop at this level.

 

That is why I had lean out issues in the past. The tune assumed a stock intake (3.75" ID) and I had the Magnuson (4.00" ID), so the MAF thought it was seeing a lower flow rate since there was a larger cross section flowing the same air, and because of that wasnt injecting enough fuel so was leaning out.

Cross section at the MAF is critical to the tune is the takeaway, and can fuck things up or be used to manipulate the sensor data

 

The important question is what did their butt dynos think of the tuned Tundra?

 

pending - will report back

 

they raced a Lexus IS. And won

life is good

 

Get them ALL helmets for when they take your Tundra. And make it a rule, if you're first in line at the stop light everyone must wear a helmet!

 

Tundra is a family vehicle..
https://youtu.be/fFgVjgga29c

 

Yeah it’s obvious they are measured differently. I personally prefer a trusted supercharger brand with decades of experience on my truck… that also includes a tune. I don’t want to throw a Harrop on my 21’ without a tune. And I don’t want to spend an extra $2k to get relatively the same power with no sort of warranty.

 

I understand. I was going Mag until Harrop convinced me.

These blowers amazing tech & easily installed. We live in golden HP times.

when you get tuned, pay close attention to the important variables. I chose old-man tune. super rich under load.

 

Will do! I will likely be one of the first 21’ to be done with the magnuson/OV tune for it. I’ll report back when it’s done!

 

Did you get high-flow cats and headers also?

 

No I’m stock

Trd exhaust is the only diff.

 

Could you share how Harrop convinced you and why you ultimately went with them over Maggie?

 

I can share why I did, as I was also on the same fence. I’m bored this evening… Ultimately both are solid choices though. Maybe some of these are misconceptions but they’re my interpretation of the differences.
1. Harrop is bigger and more efficient and can make more power per psi or boost, lower intake air temps (more power, less chance for predetonation, happier engine).
2. Harrop is cleaner under the hood IMO. And no hard to reach bolts for install/removal like the maggie. It is also easier to access the injectors and fuel rails with the Harrop vs the magnuson.
3. I noticed a fair amount of failed couplers on the magnuson blowers.
4. Easier to make more power with less mods. You may think you’ll be satisfied with the Magnuson power at first, but everything gets old eventually and you will likely want to step it up in the future. Don’t lie to yourself to save a few bucks initially. There is more power to be made with the magnuson if desired but it doesn’t come as easy.
5. Less problems with belt slip on Harrop, as compared to if you pulley down the magnuson due to how the belt wraps around the pulley on the Harrop.
6. The tune portion didn’t matter for me since frankly any canned tune like the one that comes with the magnuson isn’t really sufficient for maximum power and reliability, so a custom tune should be budgeted for either way.
7. Pulley swaps take 10 minutes on the Harrop since they bolt on, the magnuson pulley is pressed on like a concentric fit.
8. The Harrop has bigger bearings which should suggest they would handle the load better and be less prone to failure. In general the Harrop just isn’t working as hard to do the same job.
9. This one is petty, but the Harrop kit comes in a big solid Plastic crate that is nicely packaged and the blower is bolted down for shipping. Included is a hand checked off list of all parts. The magnuson ships in a cardboard boxes for comparison. The whole package just says quality on the Harrop. The magnuson probably has better instructions for the DIYr. They’re both great, the Harrop costs a little more but you get a little more for your money IMO.
10. Both use proven Eaton rotating assemblies which is what counts as far as the important components of the supercharger.

 

all of the above are dead on +

the intercooler IS wayyyyy BETTER. Dual bricks right above the intake holes 30% larger brick surface. exchanger is larger too.

harrop is a blowdown design - Mag blows up then back down to intake.

170degree offset rotors. thermally better.

the Mag turns very fast because it uses the 1900 Eaton assem. Harrop is 2650. you may get better boost lower in the rpm range(maybe), but you will run out of juice faster & the charge will be remarkably hotter.

I was speaking DIRECTLY with Harrop on initial purchase & Stage 2 upgrade.

Harrop has been doing this for decades as well

now - why did you choose the Maggy over the Harrop? because of it's older design? Do any of the above items run contrary to your choice?


Reminder, this is not this vs that.....you asked why I/we chose Harrop.

I truly respect your choice & expect reciprocity

 

1st "real" drive this morning to work.

< reminder - this is un-tuned stage 1 vs tuned stage 2. I did not get to drive tuned stage 1. >

Yikes. much better across the entire rpm range.

a different animal. hello torque.

yes, boost comes on quicker. TRD exhaust is even deeper. (what would a DD 10' system like?)

I'm glad I was able to do an a la carte' tune (see MAG discussion above). I wanted a conservative tune with this much power with safe AFR's & no knock. (safe, who am I kidding)

Transmission is shifting fine 1-2. No mods were done to shift pressure this go round. We now know un-tuned pulls timing and was slushing the shift. not bad, but not fun.

sidebar - D3 used the Mag tune & Toy FitKit, as baseline, to save time. they built from there.

We stopped when we reached the MAF limit. We could have added stuff (airbox inlet, etc) & gotten more power, but chose wisely. I'm good for now. D3 said no other variable was stopping us, other than the 5 volt limit on the MAF. Harrop gave good feedback to D3. (remember, the TVS2650 ain't even working hard yet)

Once I get past the initial shock of the added power, I'll give more feedback.

Graphs & such might happen today. D3 worked hard on this & took the weekend off.


The dash MPG is whacked now...I guess it is do to the injectors or tune (youtube tundradude34 mentioned this). anybody know why? says I got 26.5 mpg to work!! I avg 18.1mpg on my ride in. not complaining, it's the ying/yang of forced induction.

scanguage MPG appears correct....we'll see when we run a tank & do math.


For the seasoned guys out there....what should I be monitoring or asking D3 about?

 

Not sure on the injector capacity - it never came up as a factor. maybe because 650cc injector we lying on the table!

I don't think tuners matter. they all access & modify the same data. But, I'm fairly sheltered.

I'm not sure what D3 was using. I'll ask.

they had all the same data tables & graphy crap that you see on videos.

Also - I don't think I'll be interchanging tunes, so I won't be needing an in car gadget.

they mentioned their tuner is quite backordered.


I am anxious to see other tuned Tundras come out.

Y'all need to step it up out there....

 

When you say their tuner is back ordered, do you mean their Interface screen for flashing the tunes? Just wondering if a remote D3 tune (thanks to your data) is even a possibility at the moment if they don’t have the flash/monitoring tool in stock.

 

yes. the in car thing is backordered right now.

remote tunes will be avail...just waiting on the gadget.

 

"How much is it going to cost me to get 1,000 hp?"

 

You have definitely inspired me to step it up on mine, I just have to think about what remote tuner to use. If D3 will do a remote SC tune for the same price as their NA tune that’s a nice deal for the money.

 

We are simpatico.