General Supercharger Thread

remember what the teacher sounded like in the Peanuts cartoons? yeah, that. LOL


Good info....love it.

 

Some folks have chimed in the past to say the Maggie can be installed without a tune but I've not seen one done that way. I doubt Magnuson recommends it or has even tested it in an untuned configuration. It would probably need to be done with a larger pulley than what the base kit comes with.

Unless the Whipple is a centrifugal supercharger (nonlinear boost) I would guess the Whipple could be done the same way with a much larger pulley than the 85mm. Not sure what size pulley comes in the kit but probably a ~95mm would be required. Again I doubt Whipple would recommend doing so without a tune.

Even with the Harrop Stage 1 kit they recommend getting a tune, its just not required. However its not optimal to run without a tune and you aren't getting the full output from the blower+engine. The larger 85mm pulley keeps everything within the fuel map, but the ECU has to make tweaks to keep the engine within safe operating parameters.

Personally I plan on getting Stage 2 and tuned at some point.

 

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to get my head wrap around all of this, its very new to me. One piece at a time.

 

agreed...especially when we have @ViktorG and others to give us real world results to balance all this info with.

Prospeed has a couple 600hp tundras. Can someone see if they are holding up?

I'll settle for 500whp. I rarely venture past 5000rpm, so I should hold up OK....right? looking for some confirmation bias crap here.

 

I will now belabor my lean code discussion:

so, knowing I can throw a code in cool dry weather...I come to a stop and watch my scangauge A/F ratio...sure enough after about 10 seconds at a stop light, I get the P0171 & P0174

the A/F ratio never left 14.6 at idle.

sooooo....My vintage deduction skills lead me to believe that I am very ineffective at finding vacuum leaks.

Hence, my stepping up to ether/starting fluid to check for a vacuum leak. carb cleaner didn't do it.


would Techstream, or one of those fancy OBD readers, point me to a general location of the leak? or just the same blurbage that a std P0171 spits out?

 

That’s going to be a beast setup! It was also suggested to me to think about swapping out the my air box for a 07-13 lower air box because it is larger and then using a Magnuson air box lid like your package since it had a bigger MAF tube to account for the greater airflow of the 80mm. I’m wondering if I can get away with a SABM on my 2017 lower box and the magnuson lid or if the magnuson lid only works on the 07-13 lower box.

 

Not ashamed to admit I love the smell of starting fluid. Reminds me of grandpas old evinrude!

 

The difference as far as injectors is the Harrop stage 1 provides more fuel with a different method. The stage 1 bandaids the smaller factory injectors by using a larger fuel pump and then using a modified fuel pressure regulator that is boost referenced. More boost will cause it to feed more fuel at a higher pressure. This is only sufficient if you don’t run a smaller pulley, and don’t plan to get a custom tune. You can get a custom tune on stage 1 with the factory injectors but you’re really overtaxing them once you start raising rev limits and stuff. Power wise the stage 1 Harrop (no tune) and magnuson with the provided tune are very similar. I don’t even know that Whipple quotes any power numbers with their provided calibration but anything with a custom tune is going to make more power. Power aside I want a custom tune for transmission tuning, optimized timing for boost, and increased shift points.
I know that VFtuner owner Matt has stated some concerns to a member on another page with running the stock tune with boost including that the stock valve timing is terrible for boost especially at low RPM, and top end ignition is also not ideal. He also thinks running the stock tune could have questionable effects on the transmission life. He called the modified fuel regulator method “30 year old, laughable tech”. Part of that is I’m sure he wants to sell his tuning software. In short stage 1 works but I wouldn’t feel comfortable running the truck hard consistently.

 

not arguing....however, in stage1, I don't think the fuel pressure is boost referenced. I think the MAF is still controlling everything....as if the motor does not know there is a blower on it. there is just a lot more air going past the MAF. the 85mm pulley is the stock limit for the MAF map & injectors.

this goes for the Transmission as well. the torque control is doing what the MAF & ECU are telling it to....just a lot more air.

I know that's a giant marginalization, but that's how my brain works.

now - if we move to a smaller pulley, say 80mm... we are going to need a bigger map. will will need to add in the conditions of greater than 512g/min air flow. which is the untuned limit. so says harrop. now we have to jack with all kinds of crap including transmission behavior.

finding the guy that can tune to these stage 2 conditions and not blow my shit up, is my quest.

 

No intent to argue taken! It is in fact boost referenced if you refer to step P) of the install manual. Being boost referenced it is about 43.5psi at idle and about 50psi at full boost as per the installer at SDHQ. And I do agree the stock ECU does increase firmness when shifting with the added power, but I worry it isn’t really sufficient with all that extra power.

 

how does it get boost referenced? via vacuum? because it ain't connected to the blower

if so, ah!

 

In the photo it shows it is tied into that brass barbed fitting on the drivers side of the blower. That is a port open to the boost pressure. In fact mine is teed in there with my boost gauge and the FPR boost reference as opposed to using the barbed fitting that only accommodates 1 hose (for the FPR).

 

Ah...I have learned something. <hat tip>

boost gauge! I want one!

 

Well see, now you know where to hook it up! I went with the cravenspeed dual pod mount which is very popular. You can use one holder for a boost gauge and the other for a wideband AFR gauge.

 

Thank you....I'll add that to my ever growing list of stuff to get for the Tundra

my scanguage is mounted in the same spot.

 

On my to do list as well...

 

No fuel pressure gauge?

 

I don’t have one but certainly not a bad idea. I’m curious if that can be monitored through OBD2 with my scanguage, or if there is no sensor for it.

 

There is no way to monitor fuel pressure through OBD2, I used this to tie in the sending unit.
https://urdusa.com/urd-fuel-parts/

 

Nice, thanks! What kind of gauge are you using?

 

I just bought a magnuson kit after long debate, reliability is more important to me than ultimate power chase, I'll do that with other cars, but I have long tubes on the truck now with IPT to be put on next month, I'll run D3's tune and see how that yield on the dyno.

I wonder if those new headunits from Alpine/Kenwood/Pioneer can do digital display for all those, as much as I like gauges, I don't want my daily driver look like a race car on the inside.

 

You will definitely be happy with the magnuson. I wouldn’t hesitate to go that route either and originally had planned on it. I just went Harrop due to a sale at the time and the ability to make more power easier down the road if desired. Even the long tubes and tune will make a huge difference. As for the gauges on the headunit, you won’t be able to view boost or fuel pressure but you can view the OEM narrowband O2 sensors for the AFR, but they don’t read richer than 11.9:1. For that reason it’s kind of useless for our application since we should be shooting for about 11.5:1. They will also react much slower than a wideband so it wouldn’t be readings you could count on.

 

Is there a guide to where to mound wb o2 for Tundras? I'll probably get my exhaust guy to put on extra bungs for them, now I wonder if can mount the gauges in the sunglass holder or somewhere discreet.

 

There is another option for a gauge that mounts inside the ac vent ring. I forget the name at the moment. I can look it up after I get back and post a picture.

 

Oh man, I would love something like this:

https://www.uspmotorsports.com/P3-V...erface-White-Display-Audi-A4-S4-A5-S5-B8.html

 

Mine is installed just downstream of the first O2 sensor. Is it the perfect spot? I’m not sure I’ve just seen that’s where others have put it. Ideally you would have one on both banks. I just have 1 for now and I chose the drivers side since that has cylinder 5 which tends to be the one that pops. I’ve heard others say to mount in the other bank as that one is more likely to suffer from lower fuel pressure since it’s the 2nd rail in series. I figure having one is better than none, but I may add a 2nd later. Maybe @ViktorG will see this and chime in, I know he did a lot of testing of the stock fuel rails. I’d tag him but I’m not familiar with how…yet!?

 

Place @ in front of his handle

 

Hmmm definitely prefer one per bank, looks like this is a good candidate:

$343 Innovate Motorsports 3891 38910 DLG-1 Dual Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit

https://www.amazon.ca/Innovate-Motorsports-3891-Lambda-Oxygen/dp/B013UG0GHC

may end up putting the wb o2 gauge in glove box, BUT I found a boost gauge solution! this one will read tons of info!

https://www.p3cars.com/subaru/p3-v3-obd2-subaru-brz-scion-fr-s-toyota-ft86-gauge-2013-2019/

and a member here already tried it:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/light-bar-install-need-ignition-source.21358/#post-546929

 

Here is the link to the one I was recalling: P3 V3 OBD2 - Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S / Toyota FT86 Gauge (2013-2020) - P3 Cars I'm assuming the ac vent for these models is the same size as the Tundra?

Here is an old YouTube video where I first saw it installed. Check out 1:55 in the video. review of 2017 supercharged tundra - YouTube

 

You guys are a bowl of knowledge here!!! Thanks so much for the input. I may tackle this myself. As pretty much everything thing is bolt on and just replace fuel pump.