POTENTIAL 5TH WHEEL PURCHASE

I guess anything can be used against you. But has it actually happened? For something that so many people on the internet warn others of, I can't seem to find any evidence of it ever actually happening. I'm not saying it has never happened; but I haven't heard of anyone

• being pulled over in their personal truck, being weighed, and getting fined for pulling a trailer or hauling a load that was found to be over their door jamb numbers, or
• someone's personal truck/trailer wreckage being dragged onto a set of certified scales and insurance denying a claim because that person was deemed to be outside the door jamb numbers.

In some states, you can actually register your truck with a higher GVWR/GCWR than what is listed on your door jamb.

I completely understand erring on the side of caution. Personally, I wouldn't pull anything with any regularity that is rated within 15-20% of any truck's max limits.

 

My truck identifies as a 3/4 ton. It is 2021 afterall

 

Don't think you are picking a fight, appreciate civil discourse, and understand your sentiment.

The only times I've seen or heard someone being over GVWR being "used against them" has had to do with warranty claims against the manufacturer. That doesn't mean there aren't instances I'm unaware of, but even if your over GVWR by let's say 350lbs or about 5%, that is the margin of weight in my fuel tank.

I've seen plenty of threads discussing mpgs where people will report going 75-80 mph. Some parts of the country have an 80 mph speed limit, some parts of TX and UT it is 85, but most places that is breaking the law. No one feels the need to tell them how dangerous and irresponsible that is in their light, nimble half ton. My guestimate would be an additional 5% over the speed limit is far more dangerous than 5% on GVWR.

 

You are right. I walked around the camp ground where I am currently staying and saw NO tundra with 5th wheels. thanks

 

Might be possible sure…. But I think your experience would be better with a larger truck… more possibilities fifth wheel wise and you wouldn’t need to worry about weight every trip. Good luck which ever road you choose!

 

I have read many posts were you offer very solid advice to people about towing. But the blanket answer of "just don't do it", or "what does your sticker say" is not sufficient or accurate. If you read my post, the reason I called SAE J2807 BS is not because I think you should exceed those limits, but the opposite. It is an agility test that is too easy for manufacturers to achieve higher than reasonable towing capacity. And, I even gave examples of such.

As for your assertion that I haven't provided any evidence that "it's ok to go over the weight limit of a piece machinery", I provided that evidence from Toyota no less.

Again my son's 2015 crewmax 2WD and. my 2018 with 4WD have the exact same chassis, brakes, suspension, axles, etc. In no way does a 4WD system add to your ability to adjust GVWR, if you say it does and Toyota is right on both those vehicles having different GVWRs please explain, I am interested. You are knowledgeable, and others seem to defer to your expertise regularly. Can you tell me how that is possible without the manufacturer just making up a new number?

People usually lose credibility with me when they resort to name calling and personal attacks, it generally means they are out of any mental ammo or evidence.

 

Yes, that’s why I have SRW one tons and not 3/4. 3/4 ton was more than capable. Door jamb said otherwise. Not getting into the details.

 

If you're towing a 28 bumper pull now a 5th wheel of the same length or close too it will be a breeze. Have you ever towed a 5th wheel before ?

 

Your last point about speed is interesting to me right now too. I just took a 6000 mile journey where I towed for half of it and only in California where different lower speeds posted are for anyone towing anything and it made me feel a little better not driving like a mindless asshole having these signs expressly limiting towing speeds.

Or at least trying to.

No one else I saw ever really stayed near the limit even in the mountains where you have no business trying to keep up with others if you are towing at all in my experience.

From the Nevada State Line to Sacramento the entire thing was a white knuckle ride for me as you can never let your guard down for a second as people try to kill you the whole time,it feels like.
This was also during the 4th of July Weekend which sure did not help.

People are just insane selfish idiots on the road and we will be lucky to live through it.

 

How does a vehicle being lighter allow it to exceed the axle rating?

As for the components that would go into determining GVWR, they are identical.

 

Most of the weight from the 4WD system goes onto the front axle. When you load the max payload it is mostly going to be on the rear axle. Bet you both have the same GAWR in the rear. The increased GVWR allows for similar payload since both a likely limited by the rear GAWR. Notice combined GAWR for Tundra's is in the 8000+lb range, well over the ~7200 lb GVWR.

You said it yourself, going over by 1 lb isn't a problem so they can pick round numbers for the GVWR - so it's not exactly 200 lbs of transfer case, front diff, and the axles on the front axle. But to keep the safety margin of assuming 100% payload will be on the trailer hitch - therefore putting a lot of weight on the rear axle and keeping that amount of payload not exceeding the rear GAWR.

 

Think I'm following you. But if we are talking about load in the vehicle, my vehicle with inherently more load on the front axle should run out of weight before my son's 2WD. If we are talking about putting this much (as you said 100%)weight on the hitch and lifting the weight off the front axle, we need a WDH to return the weight to the front end. It can be adjusted to return an appropriate amount of weight to the front and rear axles. So I still don't see a logical explanation other than it was arbitrarily changed to avoid extraordinarily low payload for 4WD vehicles.

 

Keystone is featuring this 5th wheel as a half ton. Addressing the market with this 2021 model I will wait to see the reviews down the road. Maybe someone on this platform has one and they will post their comments

 

I am curious how Toyota arrives at different GVWRs for trucks with the same axles, suspensions, and frames. Take my truck and my neighbor’s truck. Mine is a CM; his is a DC. Both are new 4x4 TRD Off Roads. Same frame. Same axle ratings (4000/4150). Same stock suspension. My door jamb listed GVWR is 7200. His is 7100.

 

Prolly because the CM has a bit more weight than the DC due to the larger cab. More metal.

 

Its the wheel base

 

In addition to the same frame, suspension, axles, GAWR, and brakes, we also have the same wheelbase and the same stock tires.

Yes, my truck is a bit heavier unloaded due to the larger cab. Do you mean they fudged it to give me more payload because my truck is heavier?

His door jamb numbers:
GAWR: 4000/4150
GVWR: 7100
Payload: 1300

My door jamb numbers:
GAWR: 4000/4150
GVWR: 7200
Payload: 1270

 

My max payload was 1420 per sticker. There is the yellow sticker which says 0 lbs additional was added. ha!

 

My 5th wheel is very similar, we have an artic wolf 284 drl with a pin weight of 1465. There are 5th wheels out there that the Tundra can tow and it tows it well even here in the mountains. PM me if you want more info.

 

You're telling me that a CM cab and a DC are the same wheel base ? That doesn't make any sense

 

cm 5.5 foot bed and dc 6.5 foot bed are same wheelbase

 

Don’t they make light weight models in several brands?

 

Yes. Look it up if you want to. My cab is one foot longer than a DC, and my bed is one foot shorter. All the stuff I listed above is identical otherwise.

The wheels are in the same place on the frame on both trucks. Identical underneath the cab/bed