2020 LandCruiser comes with transmission cooler, why not Tundra?

Thanks for posting that.

the oil condition could be from other internal damage. May not be from heat by itself.

 

I guess I was including from 2014 since people seem to see the same temps even with the aux cooler/warmer on the older 3rd gens.

 

I can see it being an issue if you tow 5-6 days a week, like @327Tundra stated he does.

I'm doing 1000km round trips, across prairies, 2-3 times a year.

That said, if they offered me a cooler (which they won't, ever), I'd take it.

 

I think pre-19s have lower temps both driving normal and towing. My 18 #s are lower than what I see 19-21 owners posting. 19-21 owners who have added an aux cooler are posting lower temps too.

 

Yep. That’s the failure rate Toyota was probably comfortable with when they made the decision to remove it.

 

They save a few hundred bucks in the couple hundred thousand Tundra's sold....and have to put a new transmission in .05% or less of fails.

They are waaaaay ahead in the end and never have to admit anything.

 

If it turns out that the fluid burnt and the trans failed because of the lack of an external cooler, it seems the failures will really start to pile up much later. Hardly anyone uses a 2019+ Tundra for daily towing/hauling.

Still not millions. If you add up yearly sales figures since 2014, we’re around 805k total Tundras on the road through 2020. And the earlier years with the external cooler do run cooler temps in the transmission.

Exactly my thoughts. How many 2019+ owners tow/haul regularly let alone daily? They’ll have very few failures before anyone’s warranty expires.

Saving $500 (that’s pure speculation on my part) on 200k trucks is $100M.

 

Could be over 300k trucks after 21s are sold. That could make it $150M-$200M vs a few $4k-$5k transmissions.

 

If they give owners who's trucks failed, a new transmission, free extended warranty and a BB hat or travel mug, they'd feel like they won the lottery.

Heck, the ones who put up a fuss or filed a lawsuit, they could give new a new truck and make them sign a NDA and still be up millions in just parts.

Not installing it means no labor or maintenance on it either, so saves them time, inventory, ordering, etc etc.

They are all about LEAN and one less thing to install in the Tundra is a huge savings that goes far behind just the price of the parts and extends right down to the cost of the ink printed on the pamphlets or window sticker.

Spoiler

** For anyone who thinks I'm joking about the ink printed on the window sticker, go to a LEAN/Kaizen session, draw up a spaghetti diagram and dissect a minor work process to improve it. Yup, I've been to a few at work

 

I've done post mortem on failed transmissions on other trucks that had internal radiator cooler and aux cooler. The fluid was black, sooty, acrid, and the honest-to-God worst smell I've ever experienced. Same trucks had recent services and were fairly low miles.

Heat generation can happen as failure progresses in a mechanical system. If excess friction exists it will create heat.

There is alot of anxiety over the lack of aux cooler. So any transmission issue or failure is immediately thought to be uniquely and exclusively due to this change.

From my observation I think this is the 3rd failure of an AB60F I've read about. One was a supercharged unit with similar symptoms as 327Tundra's.

For me to get behind these failures as being caused exclusively by inadequate thermal management I would like to see

• Higher failure frequency, with stronger correlation to warmer climates.
• Higher frequency of posts complaining about hitting ATF temp alarm. In other words, lots of folks running up to temp limit of fluid.
• Correlation back to a high failure frequency on 4.6, non towing, units (they didn't have aux cooler either).
• Fluid analysis on failed units showing substantially different properties, particularly high acid number.
• Teardown of hockey puck coolers to ensure that there isn't a defect that is causing lack of cooling. In fact to cover all the bases...ensure there is no cooling system defect like pluggage or loss of coolant.
• (FYI there are/were some fantastic threads on this site on second gen forum of folks diagnosing some strange cooling system behavior that was traced to debris in the system causing a restriction in flow. One was left over parts from a dang radiator cap. Lesson learned--the 5.7 has a failure mode of cooling flow restriction from debris that generates inside the system.)
• Teardown of failed units to find signs of thermal overload on parts
• Teardown of failed units to find the proximate cause of failure--torque converter issue, pump issue, bearing/shaft, clutch/band issue, planetary/sun gear issue, valve body or control solenoid failure (that lead to shifting or lock up out of normal parameters...)
• Overall the failure could be design related or manufacturing related. Differentiating is important.

On top of all of this, I'm not aware of even a TSB or SSM from Toyota indicating they are aware of an issue with lack of ATF cooling causing some transmission failures. OEM's will typically send out messages simply indicating they are aware of the problem and are working on a solution.

 

Don’t know if that referred to me, but my trans in my SC 2010 failed at just under 60k. They put in a reman that was also replaced soon after I traded it in. I posted about it in one of these threads.

 

Nope...but thanks for the follow up...there was a fellow recently that complained about a transmission failure fairly soon after putting SC on and he too was concerned about transmission temps.

 

Before it had issues, my original one wouldnt go over 210 even driving fast with the SC, and get up to 220/230 while towing. The reman one they put it would run 240/250 not towing. The atf light would come on a lot. This was when it came on around 255 I think.

 

And that is with an aux cooler?

 

I had the stock cooler that was integrated in the condenser.

 

I agree with your post but I think the argument folks will have with respect to this point specifically is that the alarm point is higher than the temperature at which the fluid starts to degrade. I'm not sure how hard it would be to prove that, though.

I do remember the posts from the guy who had towed heavy with his Tundra for upwards of 30k miles (can't remember the exact distance) and noticed that his fluid was black. However, when he sent it to Blackstone, I don't believe they found anything of concern with respect to its properties vs new ATF.

 

Are we not on the same forum? I swear I see 1 of these posts a day, “cruise at 70mph not hauling anything and temps got to 230* wtf!!!”

 

Those are all from people with 2019-2021s, aren't they?

 

Fake news alert. 1 a day. Lol

 

1 a day? Mine settles around 195 at 70 mph.

 

Want to trade?

 

Thanks! But I hope you left the entertaining posts!

 

327,

When you tow, do you typically drive in S4 or D? Also, do you use tow/haul mode? Did you notice any difference in trans temps in any of those configurations compared to others? Thanks!

 

I bet they Toyota math department did something like this:

How many Tundras do we have driving in cold weather that will have problems = X
How many Tundras do we have being used as trucks that will over heat and have a problems = Y
What will it cost to fix X + (What will we save by not putting tranny coolers in)= C
What will it cost to fix Y = U
Is U higher than C = no
Remove the transmission cooler.

Capitalism at it's finest.

 

Alex38 When towing I use s4 all the time, I’ve noticed when using s4 and tow haul together trans temps will climb much faster.