Sub graphs for Crewmax Boxes

What's up guys? I've been heavily researching my audio build for my crewmax. Started with upgrading the headunit and now, well I'm just going to have to do the rest. I will end up running components front and either components or nice coax in the rear and going with a new amp. I will then be adding subs.

The subs are the hardest part of this entire equation. Due to the limited space available in our trucks we don't have very many options. I plan to use Tech12v for a box. I see that he offers boxes with 5.5" of mounting depth and will do a ported or sealed box. I haven't been able to get an answer from him on the maximum amount of airspace on his boxes though. In lieu of that, I'm referencing the TT ported box that offers the same mounting depth and they list it at 2.125 cubic feet. I've used this box spec for all of the models.

My last build was well over 12yrs ago. I had a single cab dodge and could stuff a 2.5cu ft box in the back. I loaded it with full size Alpine Type Rs and it straight hammered. I fell in love with that low end response and I'm trying to get the best low end performance in my Crewmax. This might not be the route that everyone wants to take but I'm sure there are many out there like me that are in the same boat.

Originally I thought this was a no brainer, the JL 12w1 is listed as compatible with Tech12v boxes so I was dead set on that. I thought I'd model it just to make sure and that's when I began this dive down the rabbit hole. I've spent too many hours spec'ing subs in WinISD and running different configurations. I'm still really undecided in which route to go but I wanted to share these graphs with everyone.

I have built plenty of systems in my past but always just threw them together and tinkered until it sounded good. This is my first time using modeling software so I know there are more nuances to this than I understand that this point. The big one seems to be cabin gain and I'm not sure how that will impact this.

All charts will be response frequency first and then a chart of SPL. I have everything modeled at a 2ohm resistence with the RMS rated power. The only exception is the 12tw3 which from all accounts can handle 1000w while being rated at 800w for the pair and the SI BM MKV is at 1000w instead of the 900w rating. I have not applied any sort of filtering or EQ to any of the charts.

I think I've modeled damn near every sub that will fit into these boxes. I've narrowed it down to just a handful in each situation which I'm posting. If you're interested in another sub let me know and I can probably chart it really quick.

First set - Vented enclosures:

Light blue - 2x JL 10tw3, port to 30hz
Red - 2x Kicker CompRT10, ported to 32hz
Pink - 2x Kicker Solobaric L7T10, ported to 33hz
Yellow - 2x SI BM MKV, ported to 30hz

Frequency response:



SPL:




I tuned these low to help pick up some low end response and to also try and flatten the curve. My goal was to get a F3 at or below 30hz. What I found is that with this size box, 10s model best rather than 12s. 1 - 12 is works great for frequency response but you lose overall SPL and don't pick up much low end. 2 - 12s and the frequency response is too high IMO. I was very surprised by this.

I really like the JL 10tw3s here. However, considering the cost, the Kickers look really good too. I would lean towards the Solobaric. It also has the highest peak which can make it unbalanced. I like just the little bit of extra response that the JLs have in the low end. It's roughly 8hz lower at reference which is huge. Couple that with the fact that it has 15mm of excursion and I think it's the winner. The only thing I don't know is that with the limited cone area of 10s compared to 12s that I'm used to hearing, what sort of differences that displays at lower frequencies in the real world.

The stereo integrity sub does great but it's the most expensive of the lineup and I don't feel that the price is justified. Good luck getting ahold of one as well.

 

Same types of graphs but with the 4 best sealed subs that I could find. I've overlaid the ported 10" JL 10tw3 curve on it for reference so you can see the difference.

Green - 2x Arc Audio XDI 10s
Yellow - 2x JL 12tw3s
Red - SI BM MKV
Light blue - 2x Ported JL 10tw3 for reference

The best sealed subs I could find all hit F3 around 35hz which isn't bad it just isn't conducive to getting that low end like what's possible with the vented boxes.


Frequency Response:




SPL:

 

I have had good luck with Pioneers flat 12's performing the low end task quite well in my crewmax. They have no problem with hitting 16hz bass notes.

 

I was reading your thread in my quest for sub greatness in the crewmax. I was really surprised with your results. The one thing that's hard to quantify on the modeling software is cabin gain. Either way, looks like you have a nice setup there.

Since I posted the original graphs I've ran into a few other subs that look really good.

Arc 10, Sundown SLD 10, and the Dayton HO 10. The Dayton is actually more of a home audio SQ sub but has rave reviews and it's only $150ea.

 

There are a lot of great audio products out there these days. I dont think you will have any issue finding a good set of subs that perform well. I have never had a lot of luck with modeling software. I usually look at the thiele small parameters and do a few calculations and just pull something off the shelf that I can adapt to the vehicle, then make changes to the box myself. I have built dozens of custom enclosures over the past 36 years. But I have also used some strange off the shelf stuff to to create a great sounding system. I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

Yeah I understand that the model can't be 100% accurate but I figure if I'm using the T/S parameters to model them against each other and throwing the RMS power they call for then it should be apples to apples. There's a way to model cabin gain but there are so many variable with that it can't be close. Just wanted to share this info for everyone out there. I've got it narrowed down the the Sundown SLD or the Arc Audio Arc Series 10 which I just figured out would work with the depth we have available.

 

@Vector W8 , where did you source the sub box from? Also, do you know how much sound deaning material I need for a Crewmax?
Thanks!

 

James tech12volt box (at least for 10tw3's) is tuned for 36hz

 

You can find the box i have on ebay.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282801367103

 

I believe I found it, thanks!

 

Yes, thats it. The price has gone up $25 since i purcased it a couple years ago. But still pretty cheap for what you are getting. It works well for the Pioneer 12's.

 

Yep, kinda like this box/price too. Great recommendation!

The one recommended to me prior was from supercrewsound.com. They told me 10" is the largest sub that can fit a crew cab and their box is a bit more at $215.

 

what changes did you make to the box? I think i read somewhere you were going to modify it.

 

As long as you are sticking with the pioneers you will love it. I dont know of any other 12 that would fit. You will need to open the holes for the subs up a little with a jig saw. Not a lot but it takes a little finessing and you have to turn the subs 90 degrees to clear the terminals.

 

1. Hi g

I used high grade silicone to seal every seam internally.
You will need to carefully enlarge the hole to get the sub to sit flush.
Then sprayed the inside with rubberized undercoating.
Then I stuffed the enclosure with fiberfill
Then I made sure I used the foam seal on the back of the 12" subs and carefully pre drilled pilot holes to screw in to in the enclosure.
I made sure the seal was air tight.
You would have a hard time pressing my woofer and getting it to move its that air tight.
It performs unbelievably well. Hits 16hz without any problem. And is capable of holding a perfectly flat curve.
I would put them up against anything in competition.

 

@Vector W8 , the Kicker Comp VR 12's have a shallow depth of 4 3/4" and should work with that box.

It looks like you have the
Pioneer TS-A3000LS4 Shallow-mount 12" 4-ohm subwoofer ($179.99 ea). I'll have to compare the two.
Thanks!

 

Does that box have seperate enclosures for each sub?

 

@jwatt , it appears to be a single box supporting two 12's and has 2 sets of terminals connectors on each side of box.

It's the least expensive box I've found. To have it custom built by someone will cost me $200 for box, $25 for black carpet and $20 for a second set of terminals.

 

Running two subs in the same chamber is crap, but it wouldn t be hard to build a seperator that divides the chamber, if that s the case. Myself; I wouldn t want to do it. I would buy, or have built, a proper box to begin with . I guess, if you get it, the important part is when a divider is installed, how much volume do you end up with for each sub?

 

@jwatt , any links you can share for a box that will work with dual subs in a Crewmax?

@Vector W8 , does this box have a divider between subs?

 

The box shown may work just fine. I m thinking you already know all of this, but before you go shopping around you need to figure out what you are after. First of all sealed, ported, or band pass. Also need to find the type, and volume of enclosure the manufactures recommends. You should have documentation stating that, or go to sub manufacture website, and it will say. The 10tw3, for example, requires .50 cubic feet of volume for a sealed enclosure, and .60 cubic feet of volume for a ported enclosure, (that doesn t include the volume the sub is taking inside the enclosure). I like to use Autodesk Inventer to model a sub/speaker as close to it s actual size as I can, and then model the box. You create an assembly of the two. Then it just a matter of looking at the mass properties of the box. It will tell you the unused volume. That s what you are after. (This is actually a fun part for me). But no. I do not know of any enclosures that will work for your application. I removed my back seats for my system, and stopped looking for one that would work for me as I m under no constraints now. I plan on building, or having built, a box when the time comes.

 

Yes

 

@Tactical_TRD_Pro Then it s just a matter of calculating the volume of each box minus the volume that each sub takes. Hopfully the result is close to what the subs require.

 

No, Its a matter of looking over the speakers specifications, its Thiele Small Parameters and matching them up with a volume that will achieve the desired frequency tuning.

 

Quit it. I m only talking about the right volume enclosure for the chosen sub.

 

There are too many variables to just say .5, 1.0, 1.5 cu ft will work and achieve the desired result. If your just listening to music and have no concern over how accurate the music reproduction is, then just stick the subs in any box and I'm sure you will be happy with the results. If you are concerned with achieving the best musical accuracy possible and are tuning the system with an RTA and looking to achieve a perfect SQ curve, then you will need to do a lot of research and volume calculations along with cabin gain and sound deadening to achieve a competition level result.

 

OK.

 

What parameters do you need ?Can you do it with this info? A single C10 D2 @ 4 ohms RMS 1800W

 

Thanks for Everyone's tips/input...learning lots here.

So Crutchfield has the Pioneer 12" slims with the following specs:

Product highlights:

• 12" 4-ohm shallow subwoofer
• injected polypropylene cone with rubber surround
• grille not included
• power handling: 400 watts nominal (1,500 watts peak power)
• frequency response: 20-1,000 Hz
• sensitivity: 88 dB
• mounting depth: 3-1/2"
• sealed box volume: 0.5-1.0 cubic feet
• ported box volume: 0.65-1.0 cubic feet
• cutout diameter: 10-15/16"

The box I linked above has separate sealed chambers for each speaker and provides .55 cf each, which is within threshold of the sub specs of .5 - 1.0 cf. So this box paired with these pioneer speakers will work. Next, finish specking my build so I can pull the trigger! lol