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Are all 2gen rear ends set up like this?

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by LibertySand, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. Mar 25, 2017 at 2:01 PM
    #1
    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    So today I replaced the front pads and rotated the tires. I had noticed the rear tires wearing oddly un normal. Air pressure is good in all tires.

    Left tire was on the Rear. Right tire was on the front. Both sides Looked like this. Front and Rear. Usually the front would have West issues.
    IMG_2201.jpg

    So with the rear tires off I looked at the axle. Checked the flanges for stress, axle looked straight but then I went to the rear of the Tundra and noticed the mounting of the leaf springs looked odd to me.
    IMG_2195.jpg

    Then from looking directly above it was even more evident. (Drivers Side)
    IMG_2194.jpg

    Why are the leafs not parallel to the axle flange or perpendicular 90 to the axle? Is this manufactured like this?

    I measured the leafs directly across from each other.
    Driver Rear to Passenger Rear = 40"
    Driver Front to Passenger Front = 49"

    In all my trucks. My builds. All leaf sprung systems are parallel. Not trapezoid. WHAT GIVES?! Is this causing stress on the axle and making my tires wear bad?

    Would be nice for a suspension builder to chime in on my finding. Unless this is normal and my tires are wearing odd because of shocks.

    UPDATE:

    Actual Picture of the under belly of a 3rd Gen Tundra.
    TundraLeafs1.jpg
    TundraLeafs2.jpg


    As Wynned found out, Yes the rear leafs are set up not parallel with the frame or parallel with tires like any other leaf sprung truck on the market. It's sole design is to act like a track bar that you would see in Coil sprung suspension or linked vehicles. The leafs are more of a trapezoidal design if you were to look it at from the bellyside. The following is a great description of this....

    Tundra Frame and Suspension Design
    • Design strategy behind the Tundra frame and suspension
    • Features and construction elements of Tundra chassis
    • Benefits of Toyota's sophisticated engineering

    A pickup truck's frame and suspension designs are key indicators of a vehicle's strength and poise. Chassis dynamics are often more complicated for pickups because of the extraordinary demands of hauling heavy loads and possible off-road use while still meeting Toyota's rigorous safety standards set for the entire lineup. The trend toward larger cabs also means the truck must provide a comfortable ride for the passengers.

    The ladder frame is the truck's backbone, and although simple in appearance, its function is too complex to be narrowed down to a single approach. The competition brags that the frames on their ½-pickups are all fully boxed, which provides more "stiffness." But stiffness does not equate to strength. Frame strength is a combination of factors, including crossmember design and manufacturing choices. Toyota considered many factors when engineering the TripleTech™ frame.

    TripleTech™ Engineering

    A single method of frame construction isn't necessarily the best solution when designing a truck because some priorities may be compromised. Toyota's approach capitalizes on the benefits of three proven construction methods to deliver a frame that offers load-carrying capability, crash performance and ride quality. Here's how:

    • The front section is fully boxed to support the engine weight. A robust front end also offers impact protection and provides solid mounting points for the steering and suspension components. This, in turn, improves handling response and steering precision.

    • The middle section under the cab is a rolled-lip C-channel reinforced with heavy gauge steel. This design is lighter than fully boxed but still offers impact protection.

    • The rear section under the bed is open C-channel—the same design used on most heavy-duty pickups for the entire frame. The open design offers a small measure of compliance under heavy load to help absorb road impacts before reaching the passenger cab.


    Tundra suspension design
    Toyota relies on refined proven and cost-efficient designs for the front and rear suspensions.

    • Front is independent, double-wishbone with coil-over shocks. This arrangement provides consistent linear spring action when compared to some competitive models that mount the coil spring and shock absorber separately to the lower control arm.

    • Rear is a traditional leaf-spring/live-axle arrangement. Leaf springs locate the axle and help control body sway. Trucks with a coil-spring rear suspension require an anti-sway bar. Toyota engineers also mounted the leaf springs in a "trapezoidal" pattern, meaning the front mounting points are wider than the rear shackles. This "towed out" design is very effective at reducing lateral axle movement and helps improve tracking when towing.

    • Rear suspension features staggered shock absorbers to help reduce wheel hop under hard acceleration

    If you liked this article you may enjoy this one too! http://jimmcnatttoyota.blogspot.com/2008/12/tundra-tripletech-frame-explained.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  2. Mar 25, 2017 at 3:06 PM
    #2
    csuviper

    csuviper Moderator Staff Member

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    That is Toyotas Design for the leaf springs
     
  3. Mar 25, 2017 at 3:16 PM
    #3
    Law323

    Law323 it’s only weird if you make it weird

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    The leafs aren't perfectly parallel to the axel. Looks like this -\ instead of -|
     
  4. Mar 25, 2017 at 5:03 PM
    #4
    Law323

    Law323 it’s only weird if you make it weird

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    Very very slightly. One has 7-8 threads showing, the other has 6.
     
  5. Mar 26, 2017 at 10:51 AM
    #5
    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    Yes. I agree I need to get rid of the blocks. It's on my list to do. I bought this Tundra with the 6"FABTECH lift. I'll be redoing the rear end this summer the correct way. I've been looking at a few different set ups plus air bags because I tow.

    As far as the way these leafs are from Toyota, I've just never seen such design. Made me question what's happening with the rear tires.

    I've had a friend follow me on the street and freeway and the truck doesn't crab walk or anything.
     
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  6. Mar 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM
    #6
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    Rear is a traditional leaf-spring/live-axle arrangement. Leaf springs locate the axle and help control body sway. Trucks with a coil-spring rear suspension require an anti-sway bar. Toyota engineers also mounted the leaf springs in a "trapezoidal" pattern, meaning the front mounting points are wider than the rear shackles. This "towed out" design is very effective at reducing lateral axle movement and helps improve tracking when towing.

    -https://jimmcnatttoyota.blogspot.com/2010/03/tundra-frame-and-suspension-design.html

    I found this tidbit.
     
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  7. Mar 27, 2017 at 8:30 AM
    #7
    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    Sumavabitch! I had a small feeling this may have been their design. That answered my Original Question. Now I need to fix my Tire wearing issues. Correct the suspension, ditch the blocks.
     
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  8. Mar 27, 2017 at 11:14 AM
    #8
    TheBeast

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    sounds like a plan
     
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  9. Mar 27, 2017 at 11:28 AM
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    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    How about take off both of your rear wheels and take a straight edge to each side, measure top and bottom from drivers side to passenger side to see if your axle is bent up or bowed or something like that?
     
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  10. Mar 27, 2017 at 12:27 PM
    #10
    mverkaik

    mverkaik New Member

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    IMO you need new shocks. They are either shot or poorly valves for your spring rate.

    The blocks only compound this.
     
  11. Mar 27, 2017 at 12:33 PM
    #11
    ColoradoTJ

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    I would have your rear thrust angle checked on an alignment rack.

    This is adjustable and can be done on the rack. Loosen the u-bolts, adjust, re-torque and be happy. I had an argument with a Toyota dealership about this in 99' and proved them wrong with another shop. They gave me my money back...haven't been back to a dealership since for an alignment.
     
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  12. Mar 27, 2017 at 12:41 PM
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    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    Why would this cause inner tire wear? I can understand shocks could cause it to make the tires wear cupping or chopped out but not just inner tire wear. At least that's how I'm reading the pictures he posted. To me it looks like a bent axle or housing would cause that.
     
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  13. Mar 27, 2017 at 12:49 PM
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    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    @GNTundra so are you saying that the outer edge of the U bolts are possibly too tight causing the axle to bow causing uneven tire wear?

    Edit: let me rephrase that not over tighten it but tightened unevenly?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  14. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:04 PM
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    ColoradoTJ

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    Who said it was inner tire wear? All we know that one tire was from the front and one is from the rear.

    Now I'm on an iPhone6, so maybe I can't zoom in enough to see.

    Can the OP specify if this is inner tire wear or what type of wear?

    Bent rear axle would be a long shot on both sides, as is bad wheel bearings. I would say bad alignment and just not noticing soon enough and it is noticeable now.
     
  15. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:09 PM
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    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    Well the way I see the tire, it looks like the one on the left is wedged and worn more on the inside. The front looks normal. I'm on an iPhone 6 too. Maybe I'm just assuming too much. I didn't know you could really align the rear end other than making sure everything is bolted up properly. New to me. I thought it was all factory set from where the leaf springs bolts on to the frame and the leaf springs to the rear end.
     
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  16. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:17 PM
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    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    Both rear tires are worn in center. The tread blocks also are cupped a bit, facing backyards. I have never seen any of my past trucks that the tread would cup backwards. Even my 39" Super Swampers Boggers would cup slightly forward.
     
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  17. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:30 PM
    #17
    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    As far as blocks go. I agree. I will be ditching them. I wheel my Tundra a lot and I know the issues that comes with blocks.... I've had a 97 F-350 with 44" Tires on 4" rear blocks and re arched springs that have never had this type of tire wear.

    I will take a torque wrench the U-Bolts soon as I get some time. My other guess is that 116,000 miles later, maybe the bushings in the shackles need to be replaced. Including new shocks and if I'm going to do all that work, I'll just redo it all with proper springs.

    EDIT: I'm no stranger to lift block failures. This is what happens when blocks snap in half while mudding. This is my 72 Scout II, happened 11 years ago.
    4ENJOYMENT.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  18. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:39 PM
    #18
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

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    we've been scienced
     
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  19. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:41 PM
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    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

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    So question, If he gets rid of the block, would he just have to replace the space with the correct amount of leafs?
     
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  20. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:42 PM
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    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    I've seen the block itself give out too. Either is a disaster and inevitably destroys far more expensive parts in it's wake.
     
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  21. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:42 PM
    #21
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    Or springs with more arch to them.
     
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  22. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:43 PM
    #22
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

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    gotcha, because I want to get rid of the block in the rear and wasn't sure. I'm no guru, I just break it once it's installed lol
     
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  23. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:46 PM
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    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    That's how many of us learn what works and what doesn't. Also, just adding three inches worth of leafs would result in a spring pack that would be so stiff as to probably be intolerable to drive.
     
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  24. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:50 PM
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    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

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    makes sense. any recommendations?
     
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  25. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:50 PM
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    LibertySand

    LibertySand [OP] IH Support Rig

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    Correct.
    Most likely a combination of slightly longer hangers and arched springs.

    I have been looking at this set-up. I will be contacting SDHQ before my trip to Tundras to Sedona
    http://store.sdhqoffroad.com/07currentrearleafspringexpansionpack.aspx
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  26. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:56 PM
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    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    Magnuson Magnum TVS 2650 S/C Sniv's Speed Shop 70mm pulley RCF Throttle Body TRD PRO BBS Wheels TRD Front Sway Bar TRD Rear Sway Bar Fox TRD Pro Shocks Limited mirrors (auto darkening/backup camera/power fold/puddle lights) Limited Grill Mod Automatic Climate Controls Mod Automatic Headlamp Mod Sequoia Transfer Case Mod Sequoia Leather Steering Wheel Mod Sequoia Limited Gage Cluster Mod Sequoia LED Headlamp Upgrade Window Tint 15/70% Fake Manual Transmission Mod 10" BAMufflers Stainless Catback Valhalla Catalytic Converter Shields Engine Block Heater Illuminated Ignition Key Ring Mod Deck Rail System w/cleats Solid Offroad Engine Mounts
    I'd see what Deaver or Alcan have to offer myself. I'm sure that there are other suggestions too.
     
    GNTundra likes this.
  27. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:58 PM
    #27
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Member:
    #379
    Messages:
    5,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Rockies
    Vehicle:
    Souped up truck
    Magnuson Magnum TVS 2650 S/C Sniv's Speed Shop 70mm pulley RCF Throttle Body TRD PRO BBS Wheels TRD Front Sway Bar TRD Rear Sway Bar Fox TRD Pro Shocks Limited mirrors (auto darkening/backup camera/power fold/puddle lights) Limited Grill Mod Automatic Climate Controls Mod Automatic Headlamp Mod Sequoia Transfer Case Mod Sequoia Leather Steering Wheel Mod Sequoia Limited Gage Cluster Mod Sequoia LED Headlamp Upgrade Window Tint 15/70% Fake Manual Transmission Mod 10" BAMufflers Stainless Catback Valhalla Catalytic Converter Shields Engine Block Heater Illuminated Ignition Key Ring Mod Deck Rail System w/cleats Solid Offroad Engine Mounts
    Just imagine how these felt on the ole caboose.

    [​IMG]
     
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    #27
    15whtrd and GNTundra like this.
  28. Mar 27, 2017 at 2:41 PM
    #28
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Member:
    #4410
    Messages:
    1,382
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    Weatherford TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD SR5 CM
    7 inch pro comp 35x12.5 RPB Repulsars (Hate'em) 18x9 Rhino Glamis Bilstein 5100's TRD Pro grille Murdered out Spyder heads Smoked tails Leds all around her Debadged Go Rhino BR5 Front Bumper
    Hahahaha it took me 3 damn hours to get that bad boy off. It sucked. I've cleaned her up and waxed her and now I'm waiting on my part from toyota so I can drive again. Fucking firestone did an alignment and didn't put the lower control arms nuts back on, so it's sidelined until I get them and have it aligned AGAIN.
     
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  29. Mar 27, 2017 at 2:42 PM
    #29
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Member:
    #4410
    Messages:
    1,382
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    Weatherford TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD SR5 CM
    7 inch pro comp 35x12.5 RPB Repulsars (Hate'em) 18x9 Rhino Glamis Bilstein 5100's TRD Pro grille Murdered out Spyder heads Smoked tails Leds all around her Debadged Go Rhino BR5 Front Bumper
    I
    In my defense, the road took a day off and decided to drop off and whalah.
     
  30. Mar 27, 2017 at 2:43 PM
    #30
    AnonVet

    AnonVet That's what she said!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Member:
    #4410
    Messages:
    1,382
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    Weatherford TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD SR5 CM
    7 inch pro comp 35x12.5 RPB Repulsars (Hate'em) 18x9 Rhino Glamis Bilstein 5100's TRD Pro grille Murdered out Spyder heads Smoked tails Leds all around her Debadged Go Rhino BR5 Front Bumper
    Ouch. Talk about a stiff ride.
     
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    #30

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