Bilstein 5100 Lowest vs Middle Setting Ride Difference?

Yes, thats probably a safe bet - I have run both a .25 and a .5 height shim on middle setting and it pretty really good with either height shim.

I still feel the ride can be improved so I may experiment some more - but for most people 5100's on middle notch should be a decent improvement over stock, especially off-road.

 

The spring has more preload (compressed more) on the top setting.

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That's what I have been trying to tell you all this whole time. lol

I'm much more happy with my 6112s on the top setting than the 5100s on the top setting.

 

Well, the theory makes sense that there shouldn't be any preload - but something is different on that damn top setting...

Good news is I have been running this middle setting with .25 shim and the ride is actually getting to be much softer now that I have more miles on them - I guess these 5100's must have a break in period? Maybe its all in my head, but I actually really like the 5100's at this point and don't think I will bother upgrading to 6112's - although I fully agree with you R1 that if you have the money buy the 6112's as they sound even better.

 

Here's my take on this. The 5100 shock fully extended is a fixed length. Changing the clip position does not change the length of the shock. The OEM coil spring is also a fixed length too. You have to use a spring compressor to install the coil on the shock in order to secure the top hat no matter what location the clip is in. With the truck on jack stands, the suspension droop will be exactly the same no matter what position the clip is in.

If you want to keep the ride quality/spring rate exactly the same as position 1 while lifting the truck with 5100s, you have to add spacers/shims (on top of the top hat). By moving the clip up, you're preloading the spring with "weight" so it doesn't sag as much which results in a harsher ride. The harshness comes mostly from the rebound of the spring wanting to return to it's natural length. If the 5100s offered the ability to dial in more rebound dampening, you could get some ride quality back.... and that's where the more advanced Fox/King/ADS/Icons come into play.

 

When the weight of the truck is on the 5100 then it is not actually a "fixed length" - its height will vary depending on the perch setting, which will change the length of the shock - again with the weight of the truck on it.

The perch adjustment is not preloading anything - its simply making the shock taller so the truck sits higher, that is how the lift is achieved.

 

The extended length of an assembled 5100 at any perch setting is exactly the same. The top hat and retaining nut has to preload the coil a little bit even at the lowest setting, otherwise the coil would fall off the top perch if you went off a jump and allowed the suspension to go full droop (not completely out because the rod will contain it, but bad things will happen). Take a look at the right side of the diagram posted earlier that shows the unloaded length. The lengths are exactly the same. Moving the clip up, preloads the spring so the shock doesn't sag as far when the weight of the truck is applied.

Another way to look at it is a spring will compress X inches to support X weight. So if a spring sags/compresses 4" to support 1000 pounds, you can preload the spring 2" with the perch and then it'll only sag 2" resulting in a higher ride height.

 

Once the weight of the truck is on the coilover - the preload is gone. The notch settings are changing the actual length of the coilover - that is what lifts the truck.

No, thats not how it works, go back and re-read this thread.

 

A lot of bad information in this thread...

 

I have 5100's on the top setting and was not happy with the ride. It was harsh and could feel every little break in the pavement and every little undulation in the road surface.
I took the front sway bar off last night from a suggestion from another thread here and now it rides like stock again. I do get the slightest bit of body roll and I will take that vs a harsh ride any day. It may not be for most of you guys but it works for my ride.
Basically the sway bar, when taking bumps etc., puts preload on the opposite side spring which stiffens the ride significantly.
Again, there will be haters of why its there, safety, etc., but I don't plan on taking curves or onramps at 70 mph either.

 

I just joined this forum to ask research this very issue. At first I was on the side of "the higher the 5100 clip setting the more compressed the coil", but after some thought and then confirmation here, I have flip-flopped to "the coil isn't any more compressed than it was when it rolled off the production floor" side.

BUT...

I too have a 1 gen tundra with 5100's on the top clip setting. (I bought it this way and have slowly been discovering the mods and their effects.) Let me say that the top clip is very rough, especially on the rebound. It handles whoopy hills and such just fine, but when I hit the smallest change in the asphalt (transition from dirt to asphalt - 1" lip) or wash-boarding along a dirt road, it feels like I hit a row of cinder blocks.

IMO I think the highest clip setting is rough/stiffer, because it changes the a-arm angle.

example: IF the a-arms were perpendicular to the wheel (parallel to the ground) when the truck was at rest, there would only be resistance/support from the coil during a sudden change in elevation. BUT if the the a-arms were at a 45 degree angle (sloping down towards the wheel), some of the impact energy would be transitioned into the a-arms and into the frame; resulting in a "stiffer" ride. The bump would be felt more, because of the energy being transferred through the frame.

I could be dead wrong, and would love to know what your thoughts are. I am here to learn and get me truck to a happier/smoother place.


I am currently on a quest to return it to stock, because I'd rather have it ride nice than have a "large" tire. If there's a way to fix the ride without dropping tons of money, I'm all ears.

Other than a rough ride, look how close that upper arm is to the tire.

 

Welcome Leonard.
I recently just upgraded to a '17 but had an '04 since new. I put the 5100's on that a few years ago and was very happy with the ride quality. I would suggest trying to just take your end link off the front sway bar and try it. If it doesn't change anything, no harm no foul.
As far as your tire to upper A arm, it's close and if it's too close for comfort for you, pick up some 1" wheel spacers. You should have no rub issue.

 

I forgot to mention that I have extended sway bar links, but maybe completely removing them would help soften it up.

 

First I don't notice a ton of difference between middle and top notch - but I do notice enough difference that I prefer the middle notch; but its not like your ride will be that much different. My best guess is that the shock is compressing down from a different starting point on the shaft on each notch setting - so maybe it doesn't dampen as well when over-extended on that top notch; this is just a total guess though. I have thought about the geometry causing it - but when I run spacers for the same lift then the ride seems better than moving the notch the same amount.

Your lucky with a first gen as your 5100 actually has a 0" setting - if I were you I'd buy some new Eibach 2" lift coils and try those on the 0"/stock notch - add a shim/spacer if you want more. With a truck that old maybe the coils themselves are more of an issue or not matching well with the 5100.

 

Thanks for the link! Would I need extensions for anything?

I found an old service receipt that said they couldn't complete the alignment due to everything being maxxed out. To me that sound like the tie rods.

 

I agree that this is a factor in the ride difference.

 

Care to point out why you think this way? Add something constructive!

 

First, using those coils is kind of experimental - so do so at your own risk, but from what I have heard the 5100/Eibach lift coil combination is very popular with Tacoma guys as their 5100's also have that 0" lift notch setting - so its kind of perfect for use with a "lift" coil. You're only going to get a 2" lift roughly from the coil itself when using the 0" bottom notch setting - so I think you would end up with less of a lift than you have now right? That may help your alignment problems too by lowering it a bit. I'm not an alignment expert, but most guys seem to have issues getting an alignment when they get closer to the 3" lift mark as you may be now.

 

Thanks, rustytoys.
I am bouncing back and forth between experimenting with the eibach coils and just going back to stock. I feel like my truck is at that awkward height where something different needs to happen asap. Kind of like a short haircut has that fuzzy chicken stage before it progresses into something manageable.
If money wasn't an issue, I'd have it on 35s or 37s. I totally think the closer a trucks height and length approach the golden ratio, the better it looks.
BUT money is an issue. I can convert it back to stock ride height very cheaply, while lifting will possibly point me down the road of nickel and diming me to death.

 

The shock length (eye to eye) does not change with the different clip positions. The lift is created by preloading the spring (by moving the clip up). The spring is preloaded making the front of the truck higher, and if using the OEM spring, it will have a stiffer ride. The amount of coils on an OEM spring are made for use with the OEM shock, that's why using a different spring with a different spring rate will have a smoother ride than a compressed (pre-loaded) OEM spring.

 

For me, this is what is missing from this conversation. I'm a mountain biker and sag matters off-road. It doesn't matter so much on the road so outside of hitting potholes and going over a sharp hill at speed or cornering hard you should theoretically not feel the different spring positions... IF YOU RAISE THE REAR THE SAME AMOUNT! No one is talking about the potential for weight distribution changes, but maybe they are negligible. But I digress.....

But back to the main point. You are reducing the extension travel of your vehicle when you load up the spring. The diagram shows it... off the truck the spring is shorter so its full extension unweighted is shorter. This will affect your offroad performance because you want your wheels on the ground and they will have decreased ability to track bumpy ground because they can't extend as far from their static position. I'm reading this because I am trying to decide what position to run my 5100s with stock springs. I want some lift for the aesthetics but I do not want to reduce my travel so I will be putting mine in the stock height configuration after reading through this and thinking about this (first gen tundra). I don't do anything where I actually need lift and I am only going from a 265/65 stock tire to 265/70 which is fine on the stock suspension. My mechanic will also be happier to compress the spring less. he doesn't want to do the job in the first place but I already have the struts on hand from my previous tundra where they wouldn't go on because they had already been replaced at some point with coil overs and the springs didn't fit.

 

Yes, you are correct. By reducing the extension travel, you're toping out the shock sooner which could lead to a harsher ride, noise, and the tires potentially leaving the ground more than they would if you were running the setup with less preload. Let's say the Tundra has 10" of travel and the stock, resting ride height is right in the middle. That means the extension travel from resting ride height to full droop is 5" and travel from resting ride height to full compression is 5". Drive the truck at a good rate of speed off a curb that is 4" tall. The suspension can droop that 4" keeping the tire in contact with the ground until the rest of the vehicle falls at which point the shock and spring will compress at least 4" (and probably a little more) to absorb the impact till it reaches normal ride height. Now you move the clip to give the truck 2" of lift. Extension travel from resting ride height to full droop is now reduced to 3" and compression travel from resting ride height would be 7". Drive off that same curb. The suspension droops only 3" and tops out meaning the tires are still 1" above the ground. The whole vehicle has to fall 1" before the suspension starts to absorb the impact and then it only has 3" till the preloaded spring is capable of supporting the weight of the truck. Of course it'll fall deeper into the travel as did the stock ride height, but there's no denying that 3" travel is less than 4".

If you change your mind and want to add a little bit a lift, ask your mechanic to make sure they loosen the lower control arm bolts, do the install and then retighten them while the weight of the vehicle is back on the suspension. Not sure if this issue affects the first gen, but atleast on my gen 2.5, the rubber bushings are held captive at the current ride height and if they're not allowed to reposition by loosening them up, the ride quality will suffer or worse, the bushings will fail because they're being twisted beyond their designed range of movement. I wasn't even able to install my new coil overs without loosening them.