What happened to my upper ball joint?

I got the upper ball joints replaced about a year ago which is less than 1k miles (I know lol). I was recently shown where both sides had considerable play between the castle nut and the control arm plus both boots were shredded (see pics).
My question is what would create that gap and shred the boots? I thought maybe it just didn't get tightened (especially since the clunk went away after they tightened), but if it's properly tightened the castle nut and cotter pins should line up right? Looks normal to me in pic? So where is the play coming from?

I went back to the place that did the work, and they warrantied the uppers (and lowers, but that's a different story), but said since it was a warranty replacement that they can't replace the part again under warranty. So since I'm on my own with the new bj's, I'd like to see if I should do anything to make sure this doesn't happen to the boots/joints again.

Can I check the torque of the castle nut while truck is on the ground or does it need to be lifted/hanging? What would make those boots tear in less than a year (no offroad driving)?

 

Castle nut lining up has nothing to do with anything. Nor does hanging or not. Torque to spec, then fudge it a little tighter if needed to get the pin in. Play between the castle nut and arm just means they where never tightened down enough. Simply re-tighten if that is the only problem, its a totally separate issue than ball joint wear and means only that they where not installed right.

Boot failure is usually simply brand. A cheap (which may not mean inexpensive) brand, using poor quality rubber.

Rubber parts also don't last long in extreme heat or cold no matter what, but most likely, it was just a poor quality part, which it looks like was also poorly installed.

 

Do you know what brand was used?
It does sound like they just weren’t tightened properly to begin with.

 

Looks like I'll double check the torque and should be good going forward. It was a Moog K80522 (& 21) that they used (supposedly after the recalled date range). Although this "Moog" that they replaced it with looks totally different (maybe because of the recall, or maybe it's actually an Amazon/RA part instead?).

 

Play in the joint is what will shred the boot like that.

The shop who installed this didn't torque to spec, which in our case is 77 lb ft, or 105 nm.

That center post of the UBJ is tapered, and when the castle nut is properly tightened, it'll jam itself into the UCA, then you'll torque it down. Torquing to spec should get you pretty f'n close to the hole, and if not perfect, you need to make a decision what to do based on how far off it is. If, for example, 74lb ft of torque will get you lined up for the cotter, do it, else if you gotta go to 82 to get there, so be it.

If the boot is shredded to hell, I'd say replace them. They're a bitch to press out though, as I found out on Saturday. Interim, you could pop out the cotter, torque to spec (again 77lbft/105nm) and reinstall the cotter.

EDIT: And that boot doesn't look like it's shot to me.

 

PS if it helps visualize anything, here's a shot from my '06 AC taken this weekend while tearing down the front. Note the UBJ on the knuckle pointing at 10:30 -

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Did they replace the lowers with moogs too? If so, you'll wanna replace those ASAP.

 

I will also add....a mechanic showing you 'play' between the nut and the arm....is HIGHLY suspect.

It's like a tire shop showing you 'play' between a lug nut and wheel.....all they are showing you is a loose bolt that needs to be tightened.


I would not use that mechanic again.

 

Thanks all for the help. .

Shifty- The last pic with the orange rings is the new replaced (by warranty) ubj. The split boot is in first post (maybe just unseated & not split?). I was hoping I could just check the torque on the ground and put back cotter pin, so I'll do that, to 77 ft/lbs.

bmf- They replaced upper & lower BJ with Moog, which I WILL be replacing lowers with OEM.

Aerindel- Good to know! Thanks

 

I have OEM UBJs laying around to install one day (they were on sale at McGeorge), but after looking at this thread I went out to check, and sure as shit they don't include the castle nuts! OK, I get that (and I really should have known better), but it would be nice if the parts guys would ask "do you want new castle nuts too?" (Do you want fries with that?)

 

Wouldn't that be nice!

 

Here's the thing about it, two things actually, because I type too goddamn much in every reply, and I'm sure it pisses some folks off.

One, even if you were to jack the truck up and torque that castle nut down, you'd hafta either have (a) a jack under the LCA to push the UBJ up enough to tighten down the nut, or (b) someone lift up on it, or you're basically making that one nut lift the entire weight of your suspension. It's counterintuitive. Some may disagree with me, but I have never and will never tighten a UBJ down with the wheel up in the air with a config like this, but maybe I've just been doing it wrong my whole life.

Two, that boot ... it's held on at the bottom with what probably looks like an oversized keyring, that has about two full turns of thin metal. That ring is what holds the base of the boot to the lip that's on the base of the LBJ, and I'm sure there's probably an easy way to push the ring open to re-seat it, or a tool I've never heard of, but I positioned it so both ends were facing me, clipped vise grips on one end, then grabbed the other end w/needle nose pliers and pulled em apart. It opened it enough to slide it over the base. But the base of the rubber has to be in position before you try

Needless to say, the latter of those two is not a really fun job and may benefit from having extra hands. You'll want to have the wheel off while doing it, I think, for unobstructed access. Chock and jackstand, of course, safety is king!

 

That's great! I can just grab a torque wrench and give my self some peace of mind. Glad you got yours all taken care of Shifty!

 

I won't disagree, because there is nothing wrong with doing it that way...but that one nut IS made to hold that weight. It's what it does. Ball joints are amazing when you think about what they do.

Either way you do it, it's only being torqued down to spec and then pinned that actually matters.

 

I have no dog in this hunt, but I actually enjoy your informative posts, even the ones that don't concern me and my 2014 (although I did have a 2005 for 10 years)..

You're an asset to the forum @shifty` IMHO.
I'd guess you've helped many that never posted and just read your responses in threads that they searched pertaining to their needs.

 

He'll no, his posts are to long. We need tl;dr memos at the bottom of all his posts. I'm gonna start calling him.....I can't think of a novel writers off the top of my head, but when I do that's what I'm gonna start calling him.

 

Hemingway
Twain
Tolstoy

 

My concern has always been more about strain placed on the threads, potential for that weight causing cross-threading or similar. I have no doubt the ball post on that BJ is exceptionally hardened, though I won't claim to know to what grade. The OEM castle nut nut felt and looked like a typical grade8 fastener to me when I bought an OEM replacement on Saturday. While grade 8 is clearly hardened also, I've stripped grade8 fasteners at least once or twice in my lifetime.

But I agree with you, it's probably OK. It's not that much weight. In my case I'm lazy, it seemed more sensible to chock and stand the truck, pop off the wheel, then throw a bottle jack under the LCA to jack the BJ up into the UCA and torque it.

I guess another consideration could be, if you don't jack the BJ up into the UCA, there's always a chance if the nut meets any resistance on-thread, you're just going to spin the actual balljoint ball/shaft and not your fastener...

 

The fastener should be doing nothing more than drawing the tapered stud up into the bore and locking it. It is the geometry of the taper that resists the radial forces placed upon the stud from the suspension load.

Once the stud is securely engaged in the tapered bore, the job of the castle nut is done.

 

But it requires that the nut and other things surrounding don't exceed the force required to spin the tapered stud/spingle of the UBJ. I can toss out a case from Saturday where that drawing-up won't happen. Say you do how I typically do, thinking your UBJ is going in the trash, so you thread the castle nut onto the spindle/stud a few threads, and BFH a couple times to tap it loose from the UCA. It's how I was taught to do it and how I've seen others do the same.

With the way Toyota designed the "crown" on the OEM castle nut (P/N 90171-A0001, pic below), because of that little slot they put around the spikes of the crown to hold their OEM retention clip (mine didn't use cotter from factory), those spikes actually cave in/out with hammer taps. I couldn't manage to break my UBJ free from the knuckle, and needed to button it back up to fight another day. No problem, right, just reinstall the UBJ boot, and bolt it all back up?

I couldn't do it without buying a new OEM castle nut ($5!) because the damn spikes on the OEM castle nut's crown were mushroomed inwards and were grabbing the UBJ stud and spinning it. I tried using a compatible m14x1.5 fastener to push them outward enough so it wouldn't happen, no dice. But one of the spikes on the castle nut crown broke off after the 3rd tap, and knowing my luck it, that would've been where the cotter would've lined up at spec'd torque.

Anyway, beating a dead horse here on one-off cases that I know I'm probably the only asshole unlucky enough to experience

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My OEM castle nut in question. Note how the spikes are pointed inward. Even using a compatible 14x1.5 bolt and threading it on, and a proper tap from my set, the spikes wouldn't push outward and grabbed the spindle. Even with those other two methods, the spikes would put up resistance and push outward, then go right back to shape once removed. But the force required to push them outward was higher than the force required to spin the UBJ spindle. I know, I know, total corner case and jacking the UBJ into the UCA did help get it an extra thread or two on before it inevitably spun anyway ... but just a shitty situation all-around for something I'm just gonna trash later anyway.

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I see...

 

Yes, I think every forum would be glad to have a "Shifty" of their own .

 

Didja see my nuts a couple posts up?

 

Yes! That does not look/sound like fun! Good luck.

 

I got an extra nut out of it, though.

 

So did people living in Pripyat in 1986.

 

Nice. Way to see the positive!

 

50,000 people used to live here....