Value in the hybrid Tundra?

I have a hybrid Tundra on the way. BUT… I can get the same truck in the gas only end of March. No time established yet for the hybrid version. After doing the math again. The fuel saving seem like they will be minimal. If my math is right (and may not be) around $325/year saved driving ~12,000 miles. Trying to figure out if it’s more worth it to wait, or to they the gas fuel only. Thoughts would appreciated.

 

Toyota says the hybrid is targeting power more than MPG.

 

Have they said how that will work though? On a long highway towing trip are you going to lose power over time if you’re not regenerating from braking or something?

 

Right. Is the more than $3000 up charge worth the wait? And how does the battery get charged? At only 1.9kw hours. I assume it’s pretty quick to drain, even if full. And, how does it get to full?

 

My wife just got a Highlander Hybrid. It charges the battery using the engine and regenerative braking. The battery seems to never be fully charged or fully empty. If it's a 10 bar battery guage on the dash, it's always be between 3 and 8 bars. It seems to use whatever makes the most sense for efficiency and keeping it charged up to a resonable amount. I assume the Tundra will operate in the same way and it may only become an issue if you meed max power, max load, for maximum time. Recognizing that driving is always a combination of factors and rarely a constant peak load for long extended durations, it will probably be just fine. The car knows how to work it all out. All you have to do is drive.

 

Thanks for the info. That’s what I anticipated. My wife drives a Tesla and the regenerative braking is minimal compared to the plug in charge. So I wasn’t sure if they were moving to a plug also. Thank you for the info.

 

This has nothing to do with math and numbers. Your OP statement above proves this.

The Hybrid Tundra is a lifestyle statement.

You drive the meanest and baddest vehicle on earth (pickup truck) as far as the Green Public Movement is concerned.

But it is a hybrid so I care .....a little.

 

Hmmm. I like that take on it. Thank you. I don’t care in that way. I thought it may somehow save me some bucks or get me passing others faster. But it sounds neither of those will be true. Sounds like I very well may be aborting the longer wait.

 

For better mpg and better passing power. When I lean into it will it be noticeable. Seems I am hoping yes but reality is no on both.

 

There is little other than more oomf. You will not get a payback with mpg for a long, long time.

But on the bright side, there is even less interior cargo room and no useful onboard generator!

 

You know the cost and EPA fuel economy of each truck (hybrid and non hybrid). It would be pretty easy to do the math on what the payback period would be to get the hybrid. Then you have to decide if you think you're realistically going to keep the truck for that length of time.

 

Maybe what you need to do is look at the Force Max as an upgrade option. Where as for $3,400 you will get more performance out of your truck. Lets say you get 2 MPG's per gallon more out of the hybrid and you have a 32 gallon tank. Thats 64 extra miles out of each tank of gas. Over time that means less trips to the gas station. It may not be the mileage savings we were all hoping for but you still get more HP, more torque, and maybe the response and drive is noticeably different (you won't know unless you get to test drive both out to see for yourself), and better towing/hauling performance. At the end of the day when you add lift, tires, and wheels, you are taking performance away from your truck to make it look better. Its nice to be able to add an option that will give you better performance. I also have a deposit down on a Rivian R1T and they are charging $10,000 for a max pack battery upgrade which is basically only an extra 100 miles of charge. Its not apples to apples but for $3,400 to give your truck the best performance truck there is to offer doesn't seem as unreasonable to me.

And lets be honest when you tell everyone you bought a new 22 tundra how many people do you think will ask you, "Oh did you get the hybrid?" I hope I am lucky enough to tell them yes and its awesome!

 

Do you need the truck in March or at some other point in the future? That should answer your question with a question.

 

Didn’t you ask those questions before you ordered it?

 

So here is the dumb thing with Toyota right now. Or maybe it is just at the dealer i use. But they blame Toyota. they said that they are currently just being allocated vehicles. No special orders at this time. But they will allows me to reserve a vehicle that is either in there allocation to be built currently that has a vin assigned and an upcoming build date, or to put my name down for the hybrid under the understanding that it may take time for them to be allocated one in the trim level I want. They make their requests, but ultimately just get what they get. Currently, I have 2, one with a vin and built date that is the gas only model, and one hybrid.

 

There is always the option to wait.

 

Isn't that how they've always done it?

 

Completely Agree. I wonder if anyone ponders the MPG payback period when they're considering a 6.2L Chevy or GMC over the 5.3L (etc. for the other big 2). They don't because they're looking at the 6.2 for the power and performance of that truck. That's the reason Toyota isn't marketing this as a the Hybrid Tundra but the iForce Max Toyota, it's the high output engine option, not the fuel sipper variant.

 

Your comparison is horrible. That’s 2 gas motors that always provide the same power output. The Toyota hybrid will only provide the higher output when it can. Once the battery depletes. By by extra power. Well this thread did it’s job.

As for only being able to buy the cars allocated to a dealer. You use to be able to order a vehicle with the options you wanted. Now it shows up and you just take it or leave it as they built it. You can always add more after the fact, but you have to buy it as it sits.

 

Toyota should have listed the engine output and the hybrid system output separately. But it will not be so appealing to consumers. Not all the time, the hybrid system provides the max torque. This hybrid system was used in the Hino trucks. Last Hino model 2020 195h. Similar set up and operating principle as the Tundra. I was thinking about getting an iforce Max Tundra for overlanding or off-roading i.e. trails a lot of slow speed and most likely idling. Iforce Max is probably not suited for this. What happens when the battery gets low? Can these trucks be jump started? Will the engine alternator charge the batteries in reasonable time at idle?
Hino Hybrid spec sheet: https://www.hino.com/assets/hino_195h_2020.pdf

 

Hopefully tfl or someone can get their hands on a hybrid soon and run it through the towing test. I don't care about mpg but I do care about the extra power for towing my 28' tt.
It's a long pull up and over the plateau both ways and if the battery craps out halfway it's not worth the extra cost and weight.

 

I posted this in another thread as well. I don’t need the extra performance of the hybrid but was hoping for better fuel economy with a decent payback period. However it doesn’t add up for me.

The markup from the i-Force (19 mpg combined for 4x4) to the i-Force Max (21 mpg combined for 4x4) is $3,400 and you average 15,000 miles a year:

Gas at $3.00 a gallon = payback is 15.07 years
Gas at $3.50 a gallon = payback is 12.92 years
Gas at $4.00 a gallon = payback is 11.31 years
Gas at $4.50 a gallon = payback is 10.05 years

and the above payback period does not take into account the time value of money , which would make the payback duration even longer!

I know Mike Sweers has stated that the hybrid is designed for more capability however towing capacity didn't really increase either. I have had great experiences with the Toyotas I have owned, awesome reliability. I was really interested in the hybrid option however I believe they missed the mark with this hybrid and it's disappointing. I will be looking to purchase a non hybrid Tundra.

 

The hybrid system will not let the Hybrid battery get so low that it won’t start. FYI Lots of years owning hybrids. I have Had to jump start ours once but it was because the wife left the door open with the music cranked and it drained the 12V battery… Same as jumping any other car.

 

Toyota said it has a 36 kW motor but they didn’t specify torque. The iForce Max doesn’t have an alternator, it charges the hybrid batteries using the electric motor and there’s a DC-DC converter that charges the 12V. Nearly everything on the truck runs on 12V so you can jump it if that battery gets low. As someone explained, the hybrid system doesn’t let the hybrid battery get too low. It’ll turn on the engine to charge the batteries when they’re low.
Anyway, I heard the engine is forced on when either 4HI or 4LO are selected but I can’t remember which youtube channel it was…

 

Don't get the hybrid

 

I traded my 17 (dropping it off tomorrow) and am in line for an ordered non hybrid. I was caught between a rock and a hard place. The trade in value was astonishing and they would have offered that…. But the Current truck is gone and I don’t want to wait until the end of the year for the hybrids to be available. Currently they’re saying 4-5 mo for regular trucks. No eta or even pricing on the hybrid yet up here.

 

Same thing I’m now thinking. I have a build date of March 7 for a 1794 with most of what I want. I’m indecisive on the color choice but I’ll live with the choice I made. I can hold off and wait for the hybrid, but like you said. Who knows when that will happen… If the price will go up… if the hybrid will cover its added cost in any way….
Going with the standard gas as well. I do wish there were a lift available for it, but I’m sure that will come somewhat soon.

 

I will say after having mine for a week tomorrow and driving on lots of high altitude mtn roads, passing power is a non issue on a SR5. I've driven lots of fast cars, even race cars and this thing is just fine for anything you need out on the road to pass ppl.

 

I posted this in another thread as well… looking at it in terms of relative value:
HP: +12%
Torque: +21%
MPG combined: +10%
Price: +5.6% (for the Platinum)

So for roughly 5% more money you get over 10% more horsepower and fuelefficiency, and over 20% more torque. For some that may seem like a decent value proposition.

 

vzmotion, I agree this is certainly another way to look at the value of the hybrid vs the non-hybrid version. No argument from me on your value assessment.

For me I don't need more than an SR5 (crewmax) TRD Off-Road and I don't require the additional performance. I just want a truck that can haul my family, my boat, atvs, snowmobiles, gear and such. I also want to be able to haul tools and materials for my construction projects etc. For me I was interested if could recoup upfront cost in 5-6 years with fuel savings to justify the hybrid. For me and our needs it doesn't add up.