Transmission issues…. Possibly…

So… I’ll try to keep this short. I took my truck into a trusted shop for an oil change and a transmission fluid drain/fill. All of the work went smoothly as far as I was concerned. A day or so after the maintenance some shuddering reared its ugly head when under acceleration and also when shifting between either 2nd/3rd or 3rd/4th gear. This went on a for a few days. I babied the truck through it. I took it back to the shop to have them confirm the level and made sure they followed the tedious procedure. After 2 hours of allowing the fluid to cool to that magical temp range, the tech was able to add half a quart of fluid until the pan was happy. So yeah, they screwed it up on the first try and supposedly got it right the second try(no questions asked, and no charge of course). Fast forward to this afternoon, there is still a minor shudder. There are zero leaks. Could the low fluid have damaged the internals?

 

Wrong fluid, low on slippage additives that these transmission need. You can fix it yourself by adding Lubegard HFM, 3-4 oz would be enough. Or drain&fill a few times with good WS-specced ATF, like Toyota or Ravenol.

HFM or other slippage additive will fix it.

 

I can't believe that ½ quart low would damage the transmission. I have heard that these Aisin transmissions are very sensitive to fluid levels so I can believe that you could have some odd behaviors.
What fluid did the shop use? If they put something other than WS in I may have more concerns there.

 

Not sure what year your truck is but .5 qt low would have no short term effect. More concerned with what fluid it was replaced with. You may be needing to go to a dealer and pay for a flush. Do not tell them anything other than you just want a transmission flush. Tell them the transmission is shuddering and they will send their kids to college. A few hundred spent and you rule out bad fluid and proper level.

 

Most likely the fluid type. How many miles did your truck have when you changed it?

 

They used Toyota WS oil?

I wonder if they pinned the thermostat open when checking the level… this is why I have trust issues.

 

I also have trust issues. This is why I am the only person that touches my truck. It will be like this till the day I can't anymore. The shop, probably used a wide range ATF or probably used the wrong one. I doubt they will tell you. A wide range ATF like what I switched to, Valvoline Maxlife Life, is perfectly fine to use. May here and on various other forums have also with no issues. Their has been the occasional, I switch away from WS to X brand it fixed my shudder problems and vise a versa. Oh way to know if it's the oil causing the issue is to do a complete WS switch now. I don't think being a 1/2 quart low cause any issues.

 

I'm teaching my boys to wrench on the truck so that when I'm old and decrepit, they can fix it for me.

 

This is the way. My garage shelf looks like a mini Toyota parts store and it makes me sleep easier.

 

Not sure. I’m over using a shop at this point. This isn’t the first time this chain has cocked up. They also rectified the last situation they put my truck in when they swapped out the plastic filter cart. housing with the aluminum unit. They failed to transfer the plug over and that caused a leak. Thankfully repaired that issue with no questions asked also.

That’s it though. Back to doing this shit myself. I’ll just have to be more efficient with my damned time so I can carry out these little jobs from now on.

ANYWAY…. I threw some friction modifier into the transmission today and drove it to work. Shifts felt smoother and I felt no shuddering. Going to give it a few days of driving before I consider it good to go. But signs are positive.

 

The OP’s situation sounds a lot like what happened to my 4Runner after its first drain & fill service. A very reputable shop dropped the pan and swapped 5qt at 100k or 110k miles. When booking them, I requested that they use Toyota WS fluid. A few days after, I noticed a shudder shifting into 5th gear.

I called and asked them to confirm what fluid they use. They said it was a world standard fluid that works for Toyotas.

Then, I took it to Toyota for a full fluid swap. After that, it still shuddered going into 5th. I don’t trust that Toyota actually did what I paid them for.

This situation along with a botched oil change from a local shop is why I do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE myself now.

I bet the additive you suggested would’ve fixed the issue with my old 4Runner.

Same. Filters, fluids, crush washers. Sometimes belts and hoses.

 

I’ll chime in and say I think wrong fluid was used.

Not sure of mileage or previous maintenance history… those could indicate some material transfer on tc clutch surface.

but a simple before and after sounds like the wrong fluid.

I dod a full fluid exchange recently in my 2019 and stuck with the Toyota Ws mostly because I have a good cooler.

in previous vehicles however, I have fixed shudder issues with Valvoline transmission fluid spec’d for those vehicles. This was a ford truck, Chevy truck, and a bunch of ram trucks (my family insisted on having).

 

Slippage additive is a wear item. The more transmission shifts the more additive it consumes. For transmission longevity ATF has to be replaced regularly even if it was never overheated and still looks pink and translucent. Adding HFM and alike will prolong life of dull ATF, yes, but ATF's other function is to suspend worn clutch material and metal shavings, which cause abrasive wear in valve body. Better keep in fresh and clean. ATF is cheaper than transmission, just like oil is cheaper than engine.

I also found that Toyota's ATF - the WS and the previous one, T-IV - are on a lower side of additives. When I do drain&fill, I add couple of oz of HFM anyways. The next d&f ATF comes out cleaner. Just don't overdo it, otherwise clutches will struggle to engage.

 

And I thought I was the only one!!

 

I did end up adding some lubegard. It’s simply a stop gap measure until I do a full fluid swap back to oem.

the lubegard has reduced the shuddering a good bit but it hasn’t eliminated it.

I needed motivation to re-up my tool inventory, get a decent box, and to start doing this stuff for my truck and my wife’s vehicle myself. And this is it.

 

Yeah. The ATF they put in may have modifiers to improve friction without initial slippage, which is the opposite of what you want in this transmission. In this case slippage additive will fight anti-slippage additive.

 

Performed a single drain/fill and used a quart to rinse through the pan and the opened drain. Added a tad over 3.5qt and left the level check for another day since I don’t have a terribly scientific way to make sure the temp is right before I pull the stand pipe plug. Any recs for that would be great.

Anyway, after the drain/rinse/fill the shudders are not completely gone but the frequency and amplitude are greatly improved. I’m going to do one more drain/fill next week and see how it goes. Thanks for all of the advice in here.

 

Never heard of anyone “rinsing” the pan - did you measure what you drained?

if you don’t have an aftermarket head unit or techstream, an OBD device like scan gauge is your best bet unless you want to short pins to put the truck in the specific mode to indicate when you’re in the correct temp range.
https://www.tundratalk.net/threads/...-a-paper-clip-anyone-actually-done-it.420705/

 

Yes, I added just a bit over the 3.5qt that drained out. And I “rinsed” the pan because the drippings were still old, wrong fluid+lubegard. Once I rinsed, everything was as red as the new stuff.

Right now I’m sitting on about 30 miles since the fluid swap and it’s feeling really good. Thank God. I’m still wondering if some old fluid was laid up in the guts of the unit. I’m sure I’ll do another drain/fill next week to make sure it’s square.

Also, I do have a code reader but its live data feature isn’t quite deep enough to include ATF temp. I’ll upgrade to one that does as you suggested. Seems the best route forward. Thank you!

 

AB60 has about 12 qt of ATF. One drain&fill refreshes maybe 30%. Then the new fluid mixes with the old one, the next drain&fill replaces 30% of remaining 70% of old fluid.

A typical corrective course in cases like yours is to do 3-4 drain&fill in short intervals. You can do less, perhaps, since the first one improved things quite a bit. I would do another one and see how it goes from there.

 

Yeah for sure. That’s the plan. Won’t have time to do so until next week. Luckily the only miles I’ll be putting on the truck are easy commute miles. I can baby it until then.