Some mods, with 5th wheel in mind advice please..

Hello all.....new member....as I mentioned in intro post....new to me 2002 AC LTD 4wd....was my father in-laws and he pulled a 25ft 5th wheel with it for about the last 15 years about....I purchased the 5th wheel as well.

Apparently all weight regulations ( BC Canada) are legal....though I haven’t checked the trailer specs myself yet as the trailer is still in storage....2004 frontier plainsman, no slides....the tundra does have the factory tow package, and my father in-law believes it’s the HD package.

I would like to level the truck, and possibly beef up the back end without adding a lot of lift....after using the search button a lot....I’m thinking 2.5-3 level...and possibly 1 inch in the rear....oh....and I’m aware of the don’t lift a tow vehicle argument...but I’m not doing a 7 inch lift with 37’s.


I had the truck gone over and only issue is the passenger side inner cv boot is ripped...so as I’m gonna replace the passenger side cv, maybe I should replace both with soemthing more appropriate for the front end level and towing?

So here is my rough plan so far..towing appropriate coilovers 2.5 -3 level....and replace both cv’s with something more appropriate for my needs..(would I still need the double clamp cv boot mod) ?....1’ diff drop seems to be important according to what I’ve read......as far as the rear goes I’m thinking an aal kit? 1- 1.5 inch and then possibly sway bars....I am hoping to run 285-75-16 tires possibly falken wildpeaks as they seem to review very well for both towing, everyday road manners, wear, and off road....oh I should mention my off roading will be very minor....logging roads and such....level and tires more for look than serious off roading

Im not opposed to a complete package from OME or toytec if that makes sense....clearly the 5100’s are very popular....as far as budget goes im able to spend some money, but as with all things I want the best bang for my buck.

Anyway I have used the search a lot but this is all new to me so please feel free to advise me with any relevant experience you have...but please don’t tell me why I shouldn’t... I understand the tundra isn’t ideal, and in fact I wouldn’t of ever bought a first gen as a tow unit but for 10k Canadian
or 7150 USD for truck and trailer...I couldn’t say no.....also as I mentioned....my father in law pulled it for 15 years, with NO upgrades....up the coquihalla or highway to hell as it’s known on the discovery channel many times....lol....Alberta... all over the states.....so the little tundra has been getting it done for a long time.


If my post hasn’t made it obvious I’m new to lifts and towing a 5th wheel....I have towed my 3200 pound boat with my wifes 2010 sequoia LTD 5.7 and a cargo trailer.....also I drive One of these for a living...
.....but apples and oranges I suppose.


I am also wanting to upgrade brakes as from what I’ve read they are a weak spot....I haven’t done much searching in that regard so I will make that a separate post after I’ve redone some searching.

Anyway, this is an awesome forum so far....spent the last 3days going through the 1st gen pics thread whenever I had a little time...all 62 pages worth....and man does that thread wanna make me start spending money!

Cheers

 

Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the forum. I used my 2000 AC 4X4 to tow a 7500# camper with no real issues. Sounds like you've already uncovered some of the answers you're searching for, so here's a couple of comments for your questions:
1. Brakes. This is the big one obviously. The 2002 had the smaller weaker braking system initially offered in these trucks. At a minimum upgrade to the 2003 and later larger calipers. There are some heavy duty kits like the "Powerstop" brand among others that are well reviewed, not sure if they have an advantage over a good factory setup or not, others could chime in on that. Also these brake systems are a little finicky to adjust. I would inspect the rear drums and replace the wheel cylinders, drums and pads if needed. Then bleed the whole system with fresh brake fluid starting at the back with the load proportioning valve. Braided front brake lines also help with pedal feel. If after all that it doesn't feel right, take it to a trusted brake shop.

2. Suspension. The rear end on these trucks will sag with very little weight. I used a weight distributing hitch which helped, but your 5th wheel setup will be much different obviously. Not sure if anyone on here runs airbag assist in the rear for leveling, but many have added a leaf for that 1 - 1.5" of lift and less sag under load. The front can be lifted up to 2.5" or so with spacers or adjustable coil-over style shocks. I run the Bilstein 5100's and they are very common on here. Reasonably priced as well. Old Man Emu is a good place to get suspension goodies and they are right in the middle price and function wise.

3. Those 33" tires you're wanting. They'll fit with minimal rubbing with the lift you're describing and the right wheel backspacing. But they are heavier and change your overall gear ratio for the worse for towing and wheeling. You would probably benefit from a re-gear if you go that route. 4.56 or 4.88 is a popular choice for that setup.

4. Towing. These trucks are not optimum for towing the 5th wheel trailers. The bed configuration puts the 5th wheel hitch close to the cab and contact between cab and trailer is more likely with sharp turns than other full-size trucks. a slider hitch can help with this, not sure what your setup is currently. Obviously with 15 years of towing on it's resume already it is a capable setup, I would lean on your father-in-law's experience for that. Obviously don't tow in overdrive, these trucks originally came with what seems to be a weak planetary gear for OD, Yours may be updated in the 2002.

Also, how's the frame on this thing? Towing a 5th wheel will rely on the strength of the rear box section and these trucks had rust issues with frames if you haven't already discovered that in your reading.

Best of luck and as always, pics or it didn't happen!

 

thanks for taking the time! The frame is good...it was coated by Toyota under the recall, I climbed underneath and had a good look as well...I don’t have any pics of trailer yet but will post I’m a month when I bring it home...it is a slider hitch....I will definitely be upgrading brakes...thanks again for taking the time.


Here’s one of the truck after I washed and waxed....looks better in pics than up close....but still pretty good.

 

Welcome!

I presume you know you want E load rated tires for the kind of weight you're talking about towing.

Regarding Toyota's frame coating: I don't know what the winters are like in your area of BC or if road salt is used, but time has shown that the Toyota coating does not hold up well. It served Toyota's needs -- it made the frame look good when it left the dealership, and obsolved them of any future liability. I'd inspect the frame very carefully and plan to treat it with a proven rust preventive coating. (Fluid Film, WD-40, Woolwax, ect.)

@KNABORES point #3 is a great one. You're setting up the truck to work hard pulling a load, then you're hobbleing it by increasing the gearing with large tires. Those are going to work against you.

Nice truck and a great addition to you family. I bet you'll have some great memories with it.

 

With plenty of years of towing and hauling, I do not like towing over the 4000# mark due to brakes. I just upgraded from the OEM WE (smaller calipers) to the WL (slightly larger) on my 2002 and the braking is better, but still wouldn’t want to go over #4k lbs.

I have 285/75/r16 tires E-Rated Michelins. The truck has some good low end torque grunt for towing, but the brakes are lacking over #4k lbs. You just need to plan your moves when driving like you would the cement truck.

My truck has the OEM offroad rear springs and my be different than the Limited Springs. Lift kits and such will hamper your towing/hauling. Get a bigger class truck for the big lift and heavier loads. Keep your Tundra Stock as possible if you are wanting to Optimize its performance.

 

Hello and thanks for the welcome....E load tiresare a must....im located in the lower mainland.....a town called Langley about 30 mins east of Vancouver.... winters are very mild, but thanks for the tip....I’ll have to crawl under again....the only area that has noticeable rust was around the spare tire carrier.....I’ll have to give it a good spray with wd40.... I think I’m going to have to rethink my going to larger tires.

Thanks for all the advice

 

Thanks for the advice.....it’s clear brakes will have to be the number one upgrade I do.....I’ve decided to stick with 265 75 16 after the advice given....as far as leveling the front 2.5 and adding a 1-1.5 aal kit in the back....I was under the impression the aal kit would help manage more weight? With stock tire size do you think this set up would still hinder towing? Any thoughts on a set up that would accomplish the same minor lift and would help, or at least not make any worse towing?

 

Thanks again @KNABORES I’ve decided to keep the stock size tires....based on my needs and how awesome your truck looks with the 265 75 16.....love the white lettering out...super sharp

 

Any lift will hinder towing as you are changing the dynamics for the worse. Nothing will give you more Payload Capacity other than reducing weight in your truck. No springs etc will change how much more you are ‘allowed’ to carry.

Best thing you can do for performance handling is installing a

$560 Hellwig 7700 Rear Sway Bar

Hellwig 7700 Sway Bar. Helps ‘handling’ if towing/hauling, or not. I have one and am VERY pleased with it.

Heavy Duty springs, after thought springs, etc. will harshly affect the ride quality when not carrying weight. These are light trucks not meant for things they are not.

 

Agree with PHM, add a leaf doesn't improve weight carrying capability, that has more to do with axle rating, frame rating, etc. The add a leaf may help with rear squat, but only if it increases the resting spring rate, which makes the ride harsh when unloaded. Airbag assist can help with squat and keep the ride nice when unloaded as they are adjustable. Most OEM "load leveling" systems use airbags or airshocks. Nivomat shocks are another option, although very expensive in comparison and not sure what option is available for these trucks.

Another thing to consider is the trailer brakes on that 5th wheel. Make sure they are in tip top shape and make sure the brake controller is functioning. I would adjust my trailer brake controller until I could feel the trailer dragging me when I applied the brakes, then back off a couple settings until the whole thing was smooth.

 

So do I understand correctly that you are towing the same trailer as the former owner?

If so and its not broken then why fix it?

5th wheel setup and alignment with the truck can be tricky and if you have a setup that is already proven then I sure would not alter it at all.
I know people who can never get it to the point where they feel OK setting one up.

And I agree that anything you do that raises the truck is going to alter the dynamics of the setup.

If I am mistaken and you are towing a new unknown trailer then the last thing you want to do is mess with the truck layout before trying it first,you want to see how it handles and then work to improve things in my experience and not the other way around.

Better brakes obviously are never a bad thing.

 

Trailer brakes are very helpful. My trailer has no brakes, but I’ve driven a few and they make all the difference.

 

Sway Bar was one of the options I was looking at.....I will make this number two on my list after brakes.

Thanks again!

 

I will most definitely get the trailer brakes dialed in first, though my father in law has them set up at a level he says is ideal....I’ll try your method, and see if I can get a little more braking out of them.

Cheers

 

I should of mentioned in my original post....trailer does have brakes.

cheers

 

You are correct, the truck and trailer were bought together....and yes I will be pulling it as is before any changes.....I was under the impression that such a minor level, and a 1’ aal in the rear wouldn’t be a huge deal....as far as to why, just to make the truck more appealing to myself really.

cheers

 

If the truck has already towed that 5th wheel for the past 15 years, I would look at either getting the current springs re-arched, or going with an entirely new HD leaf pack. Another option is air bags for the rear leafs, a less expensive, yet effective option.

 

You can check out my build page for the total brake rebuild I did on mine. I replaced the WE with the WL larger calipers and rebuilt my rear cylinders. All parts needed should be on the page in the pics. Page #5 is where the brakes info starts.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/the...vestment-‘build’-a-chronological-story.46816/

 

Airbags are an interesting idea....have to do some more research...thanks

 

How about just keep it simple and get the bilstein 5100’s for the front and rear. Set the front on the 2nd or 3rd notch and get the toytec or wheelers add a leaf, which is good for around 1.5 of lift. Your 265/75/16 tires will still look good with this arrangement. Believe me, you don’t want to open up a can of worms by lifting it too much. I have the add a leaf from toytec, it is made by deaver and is the long style so you won’t feel the harshness like you would with the short style. The number 2 or 3 setting on the bilsteins should give you between a 1 or 2 inch lift. BTW, the truck looks great.

 

Thanks for the advice! Simple is good! I’ll have look into the leafs you recommended.

Cheers!

 

+1 on the air bags. They don't increase capacity, but definately improve the manners of the tow vehicle while loaded. If you go that way, one bit of advice: don't "T" the two lines together. If the two sides are linked, they work against each other to promote lean while cornering.