Shudder problems and Air Pump problems 2012 4.6L Tundra

Hey Everyone, I've got a 2012 Tundra 4.6L V8 2WD crew cab and have two issues coming up. I'll ask the two questions separately to try and stay more clear and on topic.

Shudder Problems: My truck has just started an odd shudder between 1000 and 1800 RPM and usually only occurs between 20 to 40 mph. It does not last long and the truck continues to drive forward without issue. It does not seem to be a misfire or transmission slip. I've read on this forum about the torque converter problem as well as some drive shaft problems all causing these symptoms. I vent put he gear in "S" and shifted to 6th to see if it still had the same issue which it did. Based on model of truck and the information provided here, which is the likely culprit?

Air Pump Problem: This is the second time since owning the truck that I've gotten the P0419 code for the secondary air injection system relay. The first time I got this I changed out a part that was like a solenoid (cant remember the actual part as its been over a year) for the air pump and that fixed my issue for over a year. I just got the code again, It relates specifically to the Relay B circuit. I did some searching and cannot find a replacement relay but based on what I've read here on the forum it may be time to stop fighting it and working around it and just install the bypass kit. The first time it happened to me it put my truck in limp mode. This time, my truck has not yet went into limp mode but the check engine light is still illuminated.
Should I just go forward with the bypass kit? is there a relay I can get? not sure which direction to go in.

Thank you in advance for any help and info you can help me with.
Sincerely,
JB

 

I too had a shudder. Mine was a torque converter, that did it at the same points you are referring to. Had an expensive quote to change the torque converter and decided to try a flush instead. After the flush it took a while to really take effect, but it did cure the problem. That was last year and 10K ago still works great.

 

I had the shudder problem and after researching it figured it was the torque converter. Brought it to Toyota and let the mechanic drive it, he agreed. It cost about $1600 to have it fixed, but was well worth getting rid of that annoyance

 

Thank you for the information Islander, Did you have the flush done at the dealership? Do you mind sharing the cost?

 

Thank you Muscmasterd12, I appreciate the help. I may try the tranny flush and service first then see where it goes from there.
Typical dealer cost lol it seems. They always come in high, I get the are "Licensed Toyota Service Technicians" I've got a great licensed mechanic locally so I may see what he quotes me at if the flush does not seem to help.

Thank you again.

 

All the research I did back then pretty much said that the flush didn’t help. One guy did say it helped but a few months later was back. So I went with the permanent fix, although pricey!

I am glad to hear that it did seem to work for islander. I just know when it comes to luck I always draw the short straw lol

 

I know how the luck thing goes. Especially here recently for me lol
Thank you again for the information.

Hopefully some will chime in that did the Air pump delete and other air pump issue fixes as well. I'm still driving the truck until I get all of it figured out and the directions I may end up going in.

 

Alright everyone, I wanted to follow-up and give an update and additional question to my issues. Too often on forums you never see the original thread creator to return and update with their results and thats what I'm going to do.

First, the Secondary Air Injection Pump issues: I finally ordered the Hewitt Tech Gen 2 Secondary Air injection Bypass kit to take care of the original P0419 code for the secondary air injection system relay, It sure cost a good bit more than the Gen 1 but I liked the more "factory harness look". Super easy installation and Hewitt Tech included super easy to follow directions. Upon first day of installation the truck was running great again and I didnt realize how much I had gotten to use to the truck not running well. The next morning I jumped in the truck to head to work, fired it up, and boom check engine light back on again and in limp mode........... I'm like what in the world is going on with all the great reviews the Bypass kit has received. I limped into the parts store to use the code reader and now the truck is throwing P2441 & P2445 (basically now my bank one is stuck on closed) which shouldnt be an issue with the bypass kit so I didnt understand what was wrong. I called Hewitt Tech and talked to one of their technicians and found out something quite interesting. About a year or two ago I had my first issue with the Secondary Air Injection System. At that time I was not aware of the common issues nor was I aware of the bypass kit, So I ran the code, did some research and ordered a replacement Pressure sensor and I ordered an aftermarket one as the availability was the fastest option. Come to find out Hewitt Tech said for whatever reason the aftermarket sensors wont communicate with the their bypass kit correctly and is known to still allow the P2441 & P2445 codes to be thrown and put into limp mode. They suggested that I order the Gen 2 Pressure Sensor Replacement add-on to plug into my bypass kit to fully eliminate the issue. I asked if I should do both sides (bank 1 and bank 2) and they said if the bank 2 side still has the OEM pressure sensor and not throwing code then it should be fine. So I ordered the suggested pressure sensor replacement gen 2 add-on and hoped that it will finally cure my issues. In the mean time I had ordered a digital code reader that had the clear codes options for $30 off of Amazon so I could clear the codes as needed so I could still drive the truck. Once the Gen 2 Pressure Sensor add-on arrived I installed it as instructed (a very quick and easy installation) left off the battery connector long enough to clear codes, hooked it back up, fired up the truck and no codes showing. Truck was running properly again. I even hooked up the code reader to make sure there was nothing hidden and all looked well. I'm typing this now a week later and the truck is still running great and hope that this was my last issue with the Secondary Air Injection System. I know that was a lot but I wanted to be as detailed as I could to try to help someone that ends up having the same or similar situation as me. So, If you order the Hewitt Tech Secondary Air Injection System and have also had issues or replaced the pressure sensors bank 1 or bank 2 on your truck with a non OEM part at some point, you may end up needing the Pressure Sensor Replacement add-on from Hewitt Tech as well.

Lastly, the Shudder issues: I was shocked to find that upon fixing my Secondary Air Injection issue with the bypass kit I havent noticed much shuddering anymore. So I wonder if some if not all of my shudder issues were related to that or not... The issue now is that I'm aware of what the truck feels like when running properly vs poorly; so I feel I'm rather hypersensitive and anything out of the ordinary stands out and makes me go "oh no not something else". I've noticed ever so occasionally if I'm driving between 30 to 40 miles per hour a shudder/vibration that feels like I'm driving over rumble strips on the side of the highway. I dont see anything on the road and could it just by my hypersensitivity and there is a bad area in the road? sure its all possible but I'm not sure and thats why I'm questioning it. But I wanted to describe the rumble strip shudder/vibration to some of you readers to see if anyone else has experienced this or if I have another issue with something else. If it is indeed the torque converter shudder, its definitely not as bad as before and I'm prepared to have it fixed in the near future. But if a "highway rumble strip" vibration/shudder is common and symptomatic to something else I'm hoping some one here can help and point me in the right direction.

Thank you all that have read and replied. I hope this will help some other tundra owners and well as someone able to help me figure out my last issue as well.

 

Would you mind reading over my latest update (post before this reply) and tell me more of what you felt with your shuddering? What I originally described as shuddering in my original post no longer happens after my bypass kit installation. However, ocassionally, at speeds between 30 and 40 mph I'll get a vibration/shudder that feels like I'm driver over highway rumble strips.

 

The rumble strip shudder is very likely a wheel bearing. Turn off VSC, chock your front wheels, then put the rear axle on jack stands. With the truck in D setup like this the rear wheels can spin freely and you can stop one or the other to get just one wheel spinning. You can use this to discover if you have a dear rear wheel bearing.

For the front you can just lift one wheel at a time and spin them by hand to assess the condition of the bearings.

 

I had the same issue at about 25-30 miles per hour and the rumble strip feel was the torque converter.

I noticed it when going slow through school zones at lower rpm’s (less than 2500). I too that it was rumble strips I was possibly going over inside the school zones, but then eventually noticed it elsewhere and was able to recreate the problem when driving slow and matching those rpm’s

 

@JBTrickle85 We really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. I do want to echo your statement that Aftermarket components can require the need for Pressure Sensor Addons to the Hewitt Tech Bypass Kit. Our solutions are engineered to work with Factory/OEM parts and rarely do we see aftermarket parts made to those specifications. That said, aftermarket parts are initially attractive choice, but will end up costing you more in time and money in the long run.

I wanted to include some additional Secondary Air Injection System resources below and if anyone has any SAIS questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

What Does the Secondary Air Injection System Do?
https://www.tundras.com/threads/what-does-the-secondary-air-injection-system-do.113683/

What Do My Secondary Air Injection Error Codes Mean?
https://www.tundras.com/threads/what-do-my-secondary-air-injection-error-codes-mean.113686/

How to Fix Secondary Air Injection System?
https://www.tundras.com/threads/how-do-you-fix-the-secondary-air-injection-system.113688/

 

I just wanted to take the time to thank you in this thread as well. You have been a great help both on the phone and online when I needed it. Great product and excellent customer service 100%

 

@JBTrickle85 Thanks for taking the time to follow up on your original post. Its feedback like this that let us know we are doing something right. Truly, Hewitt it here to help and hope as you mentioned above this thread will give other Tundra owners the confidence to reach out to us. If there is anything else we can assist with please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Torque Converter shudder update!

I try not to leave my threads open without resolution when I have a problem in hopes that my issues and resolution can also be helpful to someone else. With that said I'd like to update the Shudder issues and resolution that I personally have. My apologies for a long post but want to be detailed in hopes of helping others.

The shuddering continued over the past year. I was simply putting it off and getting funds ready for having Toyota service the problem from the cheapest easiest solution to the most expensive Depending on the issues, ($300 Cheapest to $5000 most expensive fix). Along with life and other higher priorities I kept having to put it off until recently.
I finally had enough and had the funds set aside. Based on different threads I've read on various forums and when I talked to my local dealer the recommended solution ranged from a transmission service and fresh fluids, a new torque converter replacement or of course the worst-case scenario..... a transmission replacement/rebuild.

I never felt the transmission itself was a cause of concern or issue as it shifts through all gears fine and as it should. I only had the occasional shudder or feeling of driving over rumble strips between speeds of 35 to 50 mph which was symptomatic of the torque converter itself.

When I recently decided to finally have it repaired I took a day to do a lot of reading as well some YouTube searching to find out if I can actually do the fluid change myself on this supposed "sealed transmission". After some reading and a few videos and very helpful information from a former Licensed Toyota Technician. I found out I could do the service myself.

I ordered the recommended

$79 Toyota 00289-ATFWS Automatic Transmission Fluid, 192 Ounces, 6 Pack

Toyota 00289-ATFWS Automatic Transmission Fluid (I recommend getting at least 4 quarts, maybe 5). I also ordered a

$5 Flotool 10106B/6 Spill Saver Trans Fluid and Gear Oil On-Off Filler Refill

Flotool 10106B/6 Spill saver Trans Fluid re-filler and extra tubing (8ft) off Amazon as well as a shallow 24mm socket for the transmission fill plug. On top of that and with the recommendation of the former tech and other forums I read, I also purchased a tube of the infamous Shudder Fix.

I then drained the fluid from the trans pan drain plug and oh boy...... was it dark and dirty. I purchased the truck used and it appears it likely never had a service done which could be problematic in itself. I then cleaned the drain area and reinstalled the drain plug and began running the extended tube for the flotool I purchased. I ran it from the top of the engine bay, down the back of the engine and down the tunnel to the fluid fill hole where I removed the plug earlier. I tried my best to keep it at a downward angle so gravity would allow the fluid to get to where it needed. I then started adding the fluid and the one tube of shudder fix. I used about 4.5 quarts (Generally 3.5 to 4 quarts is enough) which I knew was a bit more than I needed but was aware and planned on draining it from the overflow drain to make sure it got the right amount since it had been forever if it had ever been done previously. Once I had the fluid added I removed the tubing, re-installed the fill plug and started the truck. I then took a pin and slid it in the transmission thermostat to lock it in the open position and then got the transmission up to the recommended temperature of 105°F (I forgot the Toyota Spec but I believe its between 104°F to 114°F) by using a temp laser aimed at the drain plug portion of the pan. I then opened the overfill drain and allowed the extra fluid to drain and then cleaned and re-installed the overfill plug as well (with the truck running). When finished do not forget to remove the pin from the thermostat. Now, the job is done.

I'm currently on day 4 since doing this fluid change with shudder fix and so far so good. I've made sure to drive the truck at various speeds at both long and short distances. No shuddering at all. It became so frequent I feel if it were to still be a problem, I would have experienced it again by now. However, since all seems to be going well. If it does return, even if slightly, I plan to drain and refill again as I figured it may just need any remaining older fluid drained again and refilled with fresh fluid.

Lastly, a few notes that may be helpful
1) I decided not to drop the transmission pan as I read several horror story threads of the trans pan bolts shearing off in the process of removing them. This is an option and honestly would allow you to clean more thoroughly, but a gamble I did not want to take personally. So read up on that before you make your final decision on the process you choose.
2) Toyota could have done the transmission fluid change for me through their service department. However, Toyota obviously would not add shudder Fix with their process and I personally wanted to make sure this was added to help address my issues. Personal choice of mine, you may or may not want to follow. That is completely up to you.
3) I spent right at around $100 for the fluid, shudder fix and the tools I mentioned earlier in the thread. This saved me an additional $150 to $250 dollars for a trans service through a service shop.
4) I recommend you locate your transmission fluid fill plug/port area before starting. Depending on the engine/transmission they are located in different areas. My truck is the 4.6L V8 and it was located further back and higher up from the transmission pan vs the 5.7L V8 which was located directly on the side just above the trans pan. (You can find help on locating this via Toyota schematics I found online or on youTube). Also, The transmission Thermostat may be located differently as well depending on motor/trans. Again, a schematic or YouTube can help you locate that as well.

I hope my issues and resolution will be helpful to others that are searching.

Best of luck,
JB

 

Hopefully it stays gone for you!

I remember when I had it how miserable it was. I went the route of getting the torque converted replaced which fixed it for me. At first I’d be anticipating the shudder ready to hit the gas or brake in order to stop the shuddering! I think it took me 2 months before I finally felt comfortable enough to say it was fine/fixed and to stop anticipating it about to shudder lol.

 

You're not kidding, I'm still anticipating it as well. I imagine it will take some time for that anticipation to go away for sure. But, I'm bad about that after any repair lol. My senses are heightened just waiting to hear or feel or experience whatever issue was repaired again... it can definitely take time before I'm fully comfortable no doubt. Thank you as well.

 

Transmission flush at the dealer fixed the issue for me. I started having shudders/rumble strips around 90-100k. Kudos on being able to fix by yourself, gang!

Also, the secondary pump got fixed for me as well free of charge at the dealer. There was a recall for it.