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Rough start, lacks power

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by vanhack, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Sep 2, 2021 at 8:14 AM
    #1
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    So my first issue with the Tundra. It is a 2020 crewmax with less than 10k Miles.

    It's been starting everything, without issue. Today after work, I started the tundra, and it ran rough. I have a scangauge hooked up, and p0300, with p0301, p0304 and a couple more misfire codes. It started first time, but was running rough, misfiring, some fuel smell. Then I shut it off, and it would not restart, after popping the hood to see anything obvious, tried another 2 times, not starting. Wiggled the negative battery post, and it started, but rough, barely any power, shaking, drove away, and stopped. Tried again, it fired up fine. No more codes, or check engine light. P0300 was logged, and I cleared it.

    I am in dubai and don't have warranty as this is a grey import, I think I know what it maybe, but would like to hear others say. I just have scangauge, and a Bluetooth transmitter, to check for next time as I don't believe this will go away and I don't think the negative battery post has anything to do with it, as it was running rough and lacked power when it did fire. I use 95 octane only
     
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  2. Sep 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM
    #2
    Rodtheviking

    Rodtheviking New Member

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    Battery most likely.
     
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  3. Sep 2, 2021 at 11:46 PM
    #3
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Okay some consistency. When flooring it, not tow haul mode in 2wd, around 5000 to 6000 rpm the cel flashes, codes are p0019 and p0302, and car runs rough and lacks power. I switch off the engine in park, clear the codes and all back to normal.

    I could set it off 3 times in a row, and same 2 codes. I also get the onboard computer and dash lights saying the trailer brake controller, and pre-collision system is malfunction, and they trigger the same time.

    Does anyone else find the woman explaining the entune info attractive as well, or is the garage talk by a sophisticated woman the sexiest thing I heard.PCIMG_2021-09-03_10-43-40.jpg
     
  4. Sep 3, 2021 at 1:43 AM
    #4
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Moderator Staff Member

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    VVT/crankshaft position sensor is what you're thinking?
     
  5. Sep 3, 2021 at 3:52 AM
    #5
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Yes that's what the codes say, but the pre-collision and VSC faulting at the same time, or are they related to the radar? I am hoping it is not the ECU.
     
  6. Sep 3, 2021 at 3:58 AM
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    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ Moderator Staff Member

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    I believe those go into default once an engine code is present.
     
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  7. Sep 3, 2021 at 5:42 AM
    #7
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    I guess to turn off the active cruise control for safety reasons.
     
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  8. Sep 3, 2021 at 5:50 AM
    #8
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Exhaust cam position sensor is faulty on bank 2.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2021 at 9:46 PM
    #9
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Ok some more testing, and the CEL comes on even without hard acceleration as this morning, now just trundling along in the neighbourhood, but only registers the P0019, not the p0302 which I assume is a consequence under hard acceleration with the p0019. Again reset the codes, and switch off the car, and all ok.

    Now that it is p0019, which states the following "P0019 Deviation in crankshaft position sensor signal and VVT sensor (for Exhaust Side of Bank 2) signal",

    I can deduce that if only this bank, and the Exhaust side, then it can not be the crankshaft sensor, as it should cause issues with both banks, and possibly on both intake and exhaust.

    So I have taken the exhaust side camshaft sensor out, and register 1.136K ohms, which seems to be in spec, although I dont have a workshop manual, if anyone can confirm. It's night here now, tomorrow morning, Ill take a look at the VVT exhaust solenoid valve and give it a clean with carb cleaner. Anyone know where the VVT oil valve filter is.

    And I think I am the cause of this, as the Tundra calls to 0w-20 oil, which I did not follow, and have put 2 oil changes of 5w-40, which could be causing this, I did this because i I live in the Dubai, and we get 2 months of 125F for most of the day time, and our lowest temp during this period is 95F, that is at 3am in the night. I was thinking Toyota have changed to a lower weight to meet emissions criteria, which in turn is not great for our engines, as the dealers here have all of sudden changed even the FJ engine, which for the longest time they were using 5w-40, but maybe Toyota japan is asking to use a lower weight oil, which is probably lower emissions by 1% per annum per vehicle, but when you have millions on the road, that will make a difference.

    Your thoughts on my analysis, and use of 5W-40, should i change to 0w-20, as maybe the VVT solenoids need this.
     
  10. Sep 3, 2021 at 9:46 PM
    #10
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    So did some trouble shooting. I swapped the VVT exhaust solenoids, and still got a p0019 code, then I swapped the VVT sensors on the exhaust, there are 4 in total 2 for intake, and 2 for exhaust. Then took it for a test drive, and no more p0019s recorded, but still get the p0302 code, which is misfire on cylinder 2, and ofcourse the radar and trailer brake malfunctions as part of the safety procedure. Reset the codes via scangauge, and then swith the car on and off, leaving a gap of 30secs, sometimes takes 2 engine on/offs to get the radar to work again.

    Now consistently I am not getting a P0019, which maybe due to a loose plug on the VVT exhaust sensor bank 2, swapping them, i also cleaned with contacts cleaner.

    Now to address the p0302, i have swapped the coils with cylinders, but just noted that i swapped the wrong clinders, I will swap the right ones and see where i get.

    Quite easy to do, just 10mm socket thus far, and very easy to get too, also have a relatively new car, all the plugs come off easy, and there is no crude to fight.
     
  11. Sep 3, 2021 at 9:48 PM
    #11
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Now swapped the cylinder 2 coil with cylinder 4 coil. Let's give it a go, now it's too hot again to do any work on the car. At the moment we have burning sun, or stiffling humidity around sunrise/sunset...../i prefer the humidity, as the sun really sends the brain in a spin
     
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  12. Sep 5, 2021 at 6:08 PM
    #12
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Ok so swapping the coils did not move the code, but the p0019 comes up immediatly on startup, but does not through a CEL, there must be a count to reach before the CEL is thrown. So I changed to 0w-20 Castrol magnatec, and also looked at the filter for any large amounts of metal, it had 3-4 specs, but too many.

    The car ran fine, if I drove it without flooring it. This morning, I drove it, let the oil reach upto temp, during this time, p0019 was being logged as a pending code around 4 times. Then floored it and p0302 and p0019 threw a CEL, reset the code, engine on/off it was fine, did this 2 more times.

    I notice the p0302 only occurs during full throttle in gear, if in neutral it does not occur when reaching full throttle.

    Help needed, remember my truck does not have warranty as I live in Dubai and this is a grey import
     
  13. Sep 5, 2021 at 6:57 PM
    #13
    Downytide

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    I applaud you for writing this down in details in case in the future someone may have same issues.

    For misfire, did you remove the plugs and change them? Is there oil in the plugs boot?
     
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  14. Sep 5, 2021 at 7:57 PM
    #14
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Thanks, hope someone make use of it, or use the ideas for diagnosis. I just swapped the plugs with 2 and 4 cylinders, looked at the plugs, bone dry and similar gaps. Yesterday I did notice some oil at the top of the coil on cylinder 2, but only the top part just below the rubber weather shield.

    Is there a method to check the timing, and is there a cam/crank relearn procedure on these engines

    Even changing plugs, and just engine start I get the p0019 immediately.

    I am running out of DIY options and probably need a dealer to diagnose.

    Below picture of plugs, the pink marked one is cylinder 4

    20210906_053312.jpg
     
  15. Sep 6, 2021 at 6:11 AM
    #15
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    The plugs do not look like there is either a mechanical issue or a fuel injector issue.

    Swapping the coil did confirmed coil is not issue.

    Changing oil did not result in any improvement.

    You have a misfire code and an exhaust cam position sensor code set repeatedly.

    At this point I'd check the wiring for any signs (looks closely) of chewed spots.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2021 at 7:00 AM
    #16
    HulkSmurf14

    HulkSmurf14 ...Weighted Average...

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    I'm thinking wire stuff too...there are rodents there and they too love wires! Good gravy you've done your due diligence on exploring repairs! My fingers are crossed for you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
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  17. Sep 6, 2021 at 7:15 AM
    #17
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Thank you gents, I am hoping someone has had similar issue and can save some money, and time or have resolved this already. So I took it to a multi brand garage, and the head of the 4X4 sections always has given me great support. Parked in the reception bay, and just walked to his desk among the lifts, talked to him about what oil I used, and he said they use a 5w-30, but then he said that the 2019 and above tundras he has noticed they are more finicky. He says that fault occurance and nature is more likely mechanical than electrical, as an electrical may trigger a CEL immediately and not throw pending codes of p0019 reach the threshold, and then throw the CEL. So he said drive it for a week, and if that does not work, they will flush the engine, and replace with fresh 0w-20. Although this is a multi brand garage, with probably 30 lifts, he asked that I supply the oil, as they don't even carry 0w-20, and they specialise in toyota, so the landcruiser 5.7 here gets 5w-30. I am still getting the p0019 pending codes and then get a CEL, but does not effect drivability. I have to floored it, but the garage guy had it in park with wide open throttle for atleast 2 or 3 minutes, no misfire, so misfire is only when there is load on the engine.

    Fingers crossed the oil is the culprit, and not something more serious.
     
  18. Sep 6, 2021 at 7:35 AM
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    Downytide

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  19. Sep 6, 2021 at 10:35 AM
    #19
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    I read the whole thread, although mine is slightly different, only 10,000miles. The code is pending p0019, and then of p0019 are logged to cause a CEL. Exhaust, intake and tune are all stock. Only mod is the ironman lift, and a dual battery system, hidden winch mount. Not driven hard, maybe a few accelerations here and there. Changed the factory oil to 5w-40 twice at 7000 mile interval, on second oil change after 3800miles after car sitting in the work parking lot for 9 hours, the car did not start easy, rough idle multiple misfires, and codes thrown. Cleared codes and started but still rough, stopped again, cleared codes all well now. Now only get p0019 multiple times, but runs smooth, then after the threshold, the CEL is lit. On hard acceleration with load on engine, I get p0302, which if I clear and swith engine on/off all well again. Swapped coils, plugs, vvt ocv valves on exhaust and vvt sensor on exhaust cam, no change. Changed oil to 0w-20, cadtrol magnatec, its all the shop had where I buy my parts, this semi synthetic. Will keep using the car for a week, and then flush engine and use new oil 0w-20.

    V configuration engines easy to work on compare to Nissan straight six, and toyots made the engine easy to access, all I have used is a 10mm socket and extension, amazing.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2021 at 10:54 AM
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    HulkSmurf14

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    Anything get put into your fuel tank?
     
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  21. Sep 6, 2021 at 10:56 AM
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    15whtrd

    15whtrd Mr. Blonde

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    I seriously doubt the oil has anything to do with it. This engine has been the same since 2007. The only change was them using lighter weight oil for fuel economy. I’d be looking for something wrong with the electrical system. I’d actually start with a new battery
     
  22. Sep 6, 2021 at 5:59 PM
    #22
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Not that I know off.
     
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  23. Sep 6, 2021 at 6:00 PM
    #23
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    What is the battery voltage at idle?
     
  24. Sep 6, 2021 at 7:01 PM
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    15whtrd

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    I think with the truck off the battery should test around 12.5 and at idle somewhere between 13.5 and 14. Just note, these trucks don’t like poor battery conditions. And Toyota is known to put some pretty crappy batteries in from the factory.
     
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  25. Sep 6, 2021 at 7:13 PM
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    Rodtheviking

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  26. Sep 6, 2021 at 8:04 PM
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    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    So checked the battery voltage after leaving it overnight, reads 12.6V, left the multimeter on the battery, and wanted to check what the voltage drops too when starting the engine, the voltage dropped too 10.51V, and then jumps to 13.8V and drops quickly to 13.4V. I also switched off the engine again, and noticed that when pressing the brake pedal, the battery drops to 12.41, switched on to ignition, but not start, switched HVAC fan with AC on, front heated seats. Voltage drops to 11.98V, but still started straight away. My battery is from August 2020, and I bought it for my other car, that I sold, but before selling it, I swapped the battery with the Tundra factory battery....yes sneaky but it was the same size, and posts in the correct position for the tundra, but this is a expensive Bosch battery of the same size.

    Yes batteries here deteriorat quickly due to ambient temps, and alternators supplying enough during hit months to get batteries upto to full charge.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  27. Sep 6, 2021 at 8:39 PM
    #27
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Thank you all, the ideas are great, I am sure we will get to the end of the problem.

    Any android app that I can use to monitor the vvt solenoid angles, or do a relearn on cam and crank sensors, although I don't think these have that function.
     
  28. Sep 8, 2021 at 9:38 AM
    #28
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    So running out of ideas, figured out from toyodiy.com that the cam sensor, and 4 VVT sensors are exactly the same, toyodiy lists 5 sensors needed for this engine with the same part number, and denso numbers on the sensors are the same as well, black colour with 3 puns, and plugs fit perfectly, thank you toyota.

    Checked resistance, and both were the same when unplugged 1.136k ohms.

    Then I swapped the cam sensor with bank 1 intake sensor, to check of cam sensor is the culprit, from the resistance test, it was lost hope I knew.

    Anyway p0019 again on startup. Also had 1 p0302 this morning, but after 4 full throttle runs. If I keep clearing the pending codes, and not floor it, truck is working without issue, it's only at 55mph and above full throttle, and letting go off the throttle or gear change throws the p0302. P0019 is immediate from startup, especially on cold start, after force clearing the pending codes 5 to 6 times, maybe more it does not come back. Subscribed to techinfo today, and did some bedside reading, the camshafts and crankshafts are immediately tested from start.
     
  29. Sep 8, 2021 at 10:23 AM
    #29
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    The combination of 0019 and 0302 is indicating there is a speed signal issue.

    especially given that it is rpm dependent.

    The crank sensor may be getting noisy at higher rpm. This would trigger the 0302 code. This could also trigger the 0019 code ( which essentially says there is a signal discrepancy between cam and crank sensors).

    I’d check the crank sensor resistance or try a spare one.

    if that isn’t it then there is a bad actuator that controls the oil flow to the variable cam timing phasers.
     
  30. Sep 8, 2021 at 7:18 PM
    #30
    vanhack

    vanhack [OP] New Member

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    Yes I going to try swapping the sensor with a new one. Been avoiding the slippery slope of changing parts, by swapping with same parts on the car this far, but only 1 crank sensor supplied with vehicles usually.
     
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