Performance modification thread

Is it worth having a dedicated performance focussed thread? This new truck has twin spinny things and could have big power potential. Mods thoughts?

 

If I had to guess, other than a tune, there probably is not a lot on the table with the stock turbos. People throw intakes and downpipes and full exhausts at their 3.5L Ecoboosts and it buys them a little, but the factory parts are usually pretty damn good.

Additionally, I believe these have load based tuning which means any mods you do without a corresponding tune will not do anything. If you put on an intake that flows better, the truck will just compensate and limit airflow to keep power the same. Its not like a NA V8 with a MAF sensor.

And a third thought. Things like intakes on turbo'd engines only improve power if the turbos are max'd out. A turbo can move a certain volume of air. The density of that air entering the turbo defines how much air mass it moves. If you are at your turbos limits and their is a pressure drop in the intake before the turbo, then you could change to a performance intake to reduce that pressure drop and then the turbo can move more mass via the denser intake air(but the volume of the air is the same.)

If you are not already at the limits of the turbo, then changing an intake is not going to change the air mass that the turbo moves since the turbo was not limiting the power in the first place.

As far as intercoolers go, from what I have seen, the stock intercooler/s on the Tundra seems to be very good. That is usually the first mod recommended on the Ecoboost trucks because Ford did a pretty bad job. the intercooler is less about making more power and more about consistency. When I would tow with my stock F150 intercooler I saw 190F intake temps a few times but with my aftermarket cooler I never get much over 115F. The aftermarket intercooler doesn't really improve power vs the stock intercooler if both have a 115F intake temp, but it does if the stock intercooler is at 190F.

 

There should be plenty of performance headroom on tuning. Remember the trucks are detuned to run 87.
Someone should contact Cobb and tell them we have interest. Check out their stage 2 tune for the Raptor, 50% more tq and hp.

 

Have you seen the JB4 tuner for the 2022 Tundras?

 

So basically intake and exhaust don't do much without a tuner if I understand you. How are you coming to your intercooler conclusion? Have you been measuring air temperatures?

 

If the tuning is load based, which I am fairly certain it is, then basically any bolt on parts wont increase power.

load based tuning means the pcm targets a certain air load/air mass(lbs per minute). It will hit that air mass target by using the wastegates and throttle body to control boost and flow into the motor. Even if you put on an intake that flows better, the PCM will just correct the flow to hit the desired air mass.

this type of tuning makes the truck very consistent in all kinds of conditions like air temperature and elevation. But it also means you cannot just throw parts at it and expect it to pick up power. Literally people would install larger turbos on Ecoboost F150’s with the stock tune and it would make the same exact power as stock.



Those “OEM+” turbos with a proper tune can make ~100HP more than the stock turbos. But even though they are larger, the PCM is still able to control them and limit power to the same as stock.

 

I gathered the intercooler was good because of the TFL Ike Gaunlet video. Towing 8500 lbs, or whatever, up a 7% grade at 11,000’ for 8 minutes straight and the intake temp was only 15-20 degrees above ambient temp. Thats very good and means the intercooler efficiency is 90% or so.

 

Ok makes sense

 

I follow thanks

 

You’re semi right. Toyota uses a torque request strategy (OV tune/VF tune site explains it too). Basically the engine tries to output a torque based on your accelerator pedal position. The ECM will adjust throttle, boost, spark, etc. to make the requested torque despite the ambient conditions. In the long run, someone will need to crack the ECM to get the best results. Also the turbos are tiny so there needs to be an OEM+ option available for more power.

 

Yeah, thats the same thing as an Ecoboost. There is a "drivers demand" table that is in torque based on the RPM and pedal position. But then that torque gets immediately converted into an air load. 400 ft-lbs at 2500rpm = an air load of X. Then the computer takes that and figures out how to create that air load and everything is driven off of that.

I did read that OVTuning article a long time ago. But they had mentioned how it was super complex. I don't know how many tables Toyota uses but there are I believe 14 tables in the Ecoboost tunes for any given variable that help it calculate out everyhing for different conditions. So there are 14 tables to convert torque to air load, and 14 tables for MBT Spark, and 14 tables for Boarderline spark etc. The PCM in the Ecoboost will weight each one of the 14 tables and then takes a weighted average of the tables. I believe that the OV tuning article mentions "3D" tables in the Toyota tune and it sounds like the Toyota approach and the Ford approach are very similar.

At least on the Ecoboost, the ignition timing is somewhat independent and the PCM allows for more torque than what is in the drivers demand table, which is why they make such massive gains on 93 octane even with the stock tune. Most of the tuning shops see them pick up ~30 rwhp just going from 87 to 93. I routinely see 480 ft-lbs requested when datalogging my truck on a stock tune even though the drivers demand table is only asking for 406 ft-lbs.

 

I was reading another thread where someone did a 93 octane tune on their otherwise stock 22 and gained like 50whp

I think I remember them saying stock peak boost is only like 10psi and they bumped it to 15 or something. I'll see if I can find the thread and post it here

EDIT - https://www.tundras.com/threads/first-tuned-ish-2022-tundra.101344

 

Thats not a true tune. That device spoofs the signal from the boost sensor to the pcm to trick the engine into making more boost and power.

As far as the pcm is concerned the engine is only making stock power but that the fuel trims are off and so its adding more fuel to get the AFR to be correct.

Reality is its making more boost than it thinks and is using the fuel trims to add the additional fuel needed to match the extra boost and so it makes more power.

They work, but a true tune could probably make a lot more power since its not constrained by how much the fuel trims can compensate.

 

Even better, then you can expect even higher hp/tq results from a REAL tune lol

 

I think the biggest reason for popularity on the JB4 right now is that it is a piggyback and not an ECU flash. Everyone’s worried about their warranty right now. So another year or so and I bet you’ll start to see more people with ECU flashes (real tunes). But 75 or so HP from a fuel trim tune is pretty legit imo!

 

If it gets cracked. The 14th gen F150's are going into their 3rd model year and still don't have tuning support except from Livernois, and that is only because they were working directly with Ford Performance and were given access.

 

Well guys, this is just disappointing to read. I did lots of mods to now hear it most likely is a waste of time and that it probably made a difference for a while until the ecu or pc just dumbs it down and changes stuff back to stock or a variation of it. Sad to hear my JB4 tuner is the only thing in play. I also, did AFE hot charge pipe... Good to handle more boost from the JB4. Stock ones are cheap plastic. I put on S&Bs CIAs and get a p2c90 and p2c91 check engine code now which is probably cause the computer is wigging out and doesn't know how to really resolve all that air flowing past the Maf sensors. I added Burger Motorsports blow off valves. Those are fun. Lastly I did a Flow Master Fx exhaust. Which sounds AWESOME. So I am all set when they do crack the computer. Stink I have to wait for a ecu flash to enjoy the potential of this motor. Anyone have any thoughts on my situation?

 

How did you do the blow off valves with those hot charge pipes? I tried and it didn't look like those were designed to go together.

 

Wonder is my bulldog bdx will work on my 24?

 

So on the blow off valves. It was a bit of trial and error. But we purchased 1/8 inch automotive Neoprene Rubber. Cut out the shape of the valve and then used a leather hole punch for the holes in the rubber. Used it as a spacer and seals off the leaks with no problems.

 

Oh sorry. Not 1/8 inch Neoprene... 1/16 inch. Ordered it from Amazon.

 

This is what I got....

 

Just got the Stillen TruControl, Seems to work pretty damn good.

 

Can you elaborate? I've been looking at this recently myself. Worth the money?

 

By seat the pants feel, definitely more power, in the 3 different modes they have, it’s a big difference to me, u have race mode/Sport/Eco, and you can play with the setting for each mode. Even in Eco, it will get up and go. Hope that helps, also easy to install and remove if u have to take it to the dealer for service.

 

thinking of trying the Stillen too...once out of warranty lol...here is a link to their YouTube video showing dyno #'s. They have a cat back exhaust and are beta testing air box/intakes.

https://youtu.be/CbEeLU4cMlg?si=51U3vWTWTYsJyBCh

 

Thread revival. What performance mods are y’all liking the best for your Tundras?