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Original suspension on '16 TRD Pro purchase - opinions

Discussion in '2.5 Gen TRD Pro (2014-2021)' started by pepeborja, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. Jan 24, 2023 at 10:59 AM
    #1
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    I test drove a '16 TRD Pro with 100K miles today and like it a lot save for the ride which did not feel comfortable or as well mannered as I have read in this forum. The cold start was perfect, no noises, squeals, or a long crank. It was a beautiful thing to hear the V8 on the TRD Pro twin tips. The frame looks clean w/o corrosion and there are no signs of wheeling activity or pinstripes. In all, a city queen.

    Looking at the shocks they look to be the original Bilsten TRD Pro. The rubber isolators on top of the rear shocks look all weathered out in line with the age of 6 years or so. I am 99% positive they are the originals and thus most likely the reason behind the ride not being great.

    My feel is they need to be replaced with something new. I am leaning towards the new Fox suspension at roughly $4K. The dealer of course says they are fine, it is a Toyota! I say nay-nay and them shocks are done. It has to enter into the equation considering this ain't no Rock Auto $500 fix.

    Plan is to make an offer that takes into consideration the cost of restoring the suspension. Question is, what options are there to the Fox OEM TRD Prod suspension? I am not looking to lift or change much, perhaps do something mild like an inch + level front/rear. So in essence stay stock or slightly raised.

    My goal is to get the dealer to share the cost at 50%. This being a Toyota dealer I could ask them for wholesale price as part of the deal. I have no idea what the wholesale price is but I assume probably 25% off for a net of $3K?

    Anyway, interested on some input before I go back to talk numbers. I want to make sure I have the proper details and have the skinny from connoisseurs. My old '07 Tundra's base model is not close to this one and could use some info.

    Cheers.
     
  2. Jan 24, 2023 at 11:04 AM
    #2
    texasrho83

    texasrho83 Teacher in a Tundra

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    Good luck gettin' the dealer to go along with that plan. It's still a seller's market for trucks too.

    If you don't plan on lifting, go Bilstein 6112s in front and 5100s in the rear. Best bang for the buck imo.
     
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  3. Jan 24, 2023 at 12:11 PM
    #3
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    Thanks, will look into them as an option and found a site that lists 6112 assembled at a specific height + 5160 Reservoir shocks for $1300. A solid alternative if folks agree on that. My old Tundra got the RockAuto treatment when it came to parts and wasn't much of a concern but the TRD Pro has its own thing and want to preserve it as much as I can.

    I have been looking for a Truck for a while (since late Nov) and save them in cargurus and carfax. Of the ones I follow they are still there, aging on the lots, only 1 has sold and that one was on the lot for over 75 days and sold after being discounted several times. Cargurus tells you how long the truck has been on the lot for sale and its price history. That is valuable data for the consumer as we prepare an offer.

    The truck I am looking at has been on the lot for 56 days and recently reduced by $3K from its higher than average fair market value. The current asking is pretty decent now and I am comfortable with it but the suspension fix is what concerns me and need to adjust accordingly.

    According to Manheim, Used Trucks have seen a 9.3% decrease YoY as the market peaked in January 2022 at an index value of 257 and has been on a steady decline, currently at 223. The forecast is for this trend to continue as consumers can't afford used car loan rates at 8% or higher while the supply of new ones is getting better. That combination is depressing the used car market and we are finally starting to see incentives for new cars come back, all of which is bad news for dealers stuck with overpriced used inventory aging on their lots. They have to make deals to turn their inventory and get butts in the Finance office or send them to auction to cut the loss.

    The tide turned on January 22 and it is becoming a buyers market. FOMO, or Fear of Missing Out, is what gets buyers to make poor decisions and skews the market. For me, I am preparing an offer that is an "out the door" offer, meaning price + tax + doc fee + license and registration. The OTD strategy simplifies car buying by letting the salesperson know what my final figure is and sticking to it. The entire burden to make the deal work is on them as they have to figure out the lines in the sales contract to make my number work. As a consumer, all I care is that the check I write is on the amount I specified on my OTD offer.

    Right now, I am trying to figure out that OTD number by taking into consideration the current fair market value + the cost of replacing the suspension to ensure I get a deal I set, not what they set. Knowing the car is aging, has 100K miles, and gets 13 miles to the gallon is helpful. The market for this truck is limited to a few people that know the Tundra value and are not afraid of the mileage or poor MPG.


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  4. Jan 25, 2023 at 3:56 AM
    #4
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    Good luck, youre gonna need it!

    The TRD PRO suspension is very different than the others, what do you think is wrong with it? What is it doing? If a city truck as you say, you are throwing away good shocks out of ignorance.

    FWIW, my TRD PRO has 77K and suspension is still like new.
     
  5. Jan 25, 2023 at 4:18 AM
    #5
    PermaFrostTRD

    PermaFrostTRD Tumescent Member

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    I’ll never understand this mentality. “Let me buy your 7 year old truck, but I want you to incur the cost of making it not 7 years old for me” :facepalm:

    the TRD pro model has its own market that it follows. The VIN will always say TRD PRO while other models (despite what mods you do to it), will not. It’s a highly desirable vehicle which is reflected in its value retention and resale market. Your salesman will take a look at your reports and spreadsheets, chuckle, then politely walk you over to the truck and have you sniff that bedstamp with a big smile on his/her face.

    If you’re ok with swapping /upgrading suspension, why not look for a similar model year limited or platinum. These models are where your homework might actually work out for you. You get a nicer appointed truck, the “new” suspension for the same or likely less than asking for this pro. But if you’re insistent on purchasing an SR5 with a bedstamp, expect to pay for it. Thems the breaks. :notsure:
     
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  6. Jan 25, 2023 at 6:20 AM
    #6
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    Fixed it for you ;-)
     
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  7. Jan 25, 2023 at 7:07 AM
    #7
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Elitist forum troll

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    Don't think the 2016 had the BBS. They had the black version of the offroad rims . regardless, those shocks are spent at 100k. If the guy that has the 77k miles one thinks it still rides like new, it doesn't. The function degrades slowly, and not always predictably. Average life expectancy for shocks is in the 60-80k miles range. They are not the same at 80k as they are at 10k miles, they've just slowly changed over time and you're accustomed to them. Many higher performance shock offerings recommend rebuilds in the 50k range. If the dealer is selling it at current 2016 TRD Pro market prices, then those are your shocks to deal with. If they are commanding top dollar or waiving the "certified" flag, then you can argue for concessions.
     
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  8. Jan 25, 2023 at 7:08 AM
    #8
    PermaFrostTRD

    PermaFrostTRD Tumescent Member

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    Which of your "fixed it's" can't be added either with the OEM stuff, or improved upon with aftermarket relatively easily? Many guys & gals on here have built faux pro's minus the bed stamp.

    Heck, according to your signature, you've even "improved upon" the untouchable TRD Pro accoutrements. You may have "fixed" your truck, but the same can't be said for fixing my post - the point still stands.
     
  9. Jan 25, 2023 at 6:27 PM
    #9
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    Lighten up Francis.......... I was poking fun at your "Stamped SR5" comment and filled in the other things that make the PRO unique those years. No vehicle is perfect or safe from farkles or modifications, thats part of making it uniquely our own. Shameful that Toyota based the PRO for 15-17 on the SR5. At least they based the last few years on the Limited. I personally like that I have the simple HVAC, but the lack of auto down windows all around and heated/cooled seats, power tailgate lock, bedlights and other basic "high end" things was ridiculous. I am sorry that you suffer from PRO envy. Good thing you can fix that by buying one! ;)
     
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  10. Jan 26, 2023 at 3:44 AM
    #10
    PermaFrostTRD

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    There’s nothing to lighten up, or be envious over. The point (that you keep missing) is that for those model years (15-17) there isn’t anything particularly distinct about the Pros except the bedstamp. Replicating and even improving upon what Toyota tossed out of the factory (and fooled some into thinking it was a Raptor), is fairly simple. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great truck, but if the OP wants “the Bed Stamp” then he/she is gonna pay extra for it. That’s all.
     
  11. Jan 26, 2023 at 11:38 AM
    #11
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    Good input and sarcasm… forums are a place where that is never in short supply. :)

    Anyway, this particular transaction is not with a dealer that has a fixed (non-negotiable) price. That means the final price is set by me (the buyer) not the seller, who has an “asking” price and thus negotiable. I did buy in the past from a fixed price dealer and it was a good transaction as the price was in line with what I was willing to pay based on my research. My question in this here forum sought opinions on what options are available to restore the stock suspension on a TRD Pro model. The objective of my question is to help me understand what my costs will be and to formulate a price for my offer that takes into consideration the repairs/parts.

    My strategy for buying a vehicle is to always be in control of the process. Show up, take a test drive, and excuse myself to go look at other options while asking for their card and letting him/her know of my decision in a few days. I keep it short and to the point as to not waste anyone’s time. Go home, cool down and assess the visit. If I am interested I will prepare my “out the door” offer by taking the fair market value and adjusting it for any repairs that may be needed, along with tax, L/R, and doc fees. I then email the offer with a brief rationale for my price and phone the salesperson to let them know they have mail.

    This strategy eliminates the “captivity” factor of being in their territory and all of the maneuvering they can do to pressure me into buying. Using email turns it into a very impersonal transaction that keeps things civilized, eliminates wasting anyone’s time, and keeps all comms in writing. If they phone call to discuss the counter price I tell them I made up my mind on and that I am working on offers on other options if this one does not work out. That lets them know I am not attached and willing to move on.

    The dealer can reply in 3 ways: Yes, No, or counter. For me, a No and Counter are the same and MUST BE the end of the process. I thank them for the time and move on to the next thing. There is a small chance the dealer may reach out a few days later to accept the offer, but that (hope it may happen) should not be a part of the strategy. Some dealers would rather send the aged car to auction (60 to 90 days) than to bend a knee.

    The strategy gives me full control of the and the salesperson will never be able to take me outside to kiss the TRD Pro emblem while sporting a silly :). I like the truck but the only way it comes home with me is if it meets the price my calculations of FMV + repairs can be met. I had a 2007 Tundra SR5 and replacing it is just a matter of time, if not this one then something else will come up. Say no to FOMO!

    I got a call to ask me about my decision and told them I was still thinking about my options plus have a business trip coming up so I would probably would not be able to do much until the end of next week. I let him know I would check when I return to see if the truck is still available. If it is then the extra 10 days in age may help my offer but there is no guarantee on that as some dealers would rather eat the loss that yield a win.

    The good news is the market has finally flipped and dealers are no longer able to ask for the pearls of the Virgin Mary on new or used cars. There is plenty of data showing wholesale prices are going down, with "no sale" at auto auctions at 50% or better, signaling that sellers are asking way too much money for the cars they are dumping at auction and the buyers (re-sellers) unable to make a profit at those prices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
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  12. Jan 26, 2023 at 12:00 PM
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    PermaFrostTRD

    PermaFrostTRD Tumescent Member

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    @pepeborja , to get "brand new OEM components" you can replace the factory Bilstein TRD Pro suspension (model years 2015-2017) with new factory TRD Pro Fox suspension (model years 2019-2021) for about $3000 plus install as the Bilsteins are likely not available as "new old stock." There are other options (all over this forum) for more spendy or less spendy based on your intended use to give you the same 2" lift/level on the front of the truck just like the factory TRD Pro kits. You've yet to state your intended use, which is fine, but others on this forum way smarter than I am can offer very tailored solutions just by telling them what you want to do with the truck when you purchase it.

    Yes signs are trending more and more favorably for the buyer for new and used autos, but it's not what it was 3 years ago and won't likely ever go back. I appreciate your enthusiasm with regards to your research and focus, but I can assure you that the TRD Pro Tundra will not follow these trends as exactly as a Platinum or Limited Tundra. Which is why I included them in my original reply. I'm not just saying that because this is a Tundra forum and we all love tundras and secretly want a Pro, but dont want anyone else to have one or whatever. The TRD Pro is a different animal that exists outside of "the market" so to speak. If you can demonstrate suspension failure, you might have a chance to bring them down some on their asking price. More than likely, your test drive experience merely reflected the "age" of the components. I would gather that it's been priced accordingly. Regardless, good luck with the purchase.
     
  13. Jan 26, 2023 at 12:26 PM
    #13
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    Pardon my ignorance as I do not know how long these premium off-road shocks last. My SR5 was all RockAuto stuff with the usual "it has been 40K miles so might as well replace the shocks kind of deal".

    What I have read shows most folks seem to think 7K to 80K miles is the service life for the TRD Bilsten shocks.

    I did not see any leaks on any shock during my inspection; however, I think it is reasonable to determine that at 100K miles these shocks are past due their service life and need to be replaced.
     
  14. Jan 26, 2023 at 12:50 PM
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    Sierradevil

    Sierradevil New Member

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  15. Jan 26, 2023 at 1:01 PM
    #15
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    Thanks. That is the option (Fox) that seems to be the one that would be the most reasonable at $3500.
    It is the one that would go well with the Truck and be most attractive for future resale over aftermarket.

    My price offer rationale is based on the fact that these shocks are past their service life and that the previous owner never replaced them per factory recommendations.
    The FMV for a 100K mile truck assumes parts are within their service intervals.
    The current asking price is reasonable until we consider that the shocks are overdue and the cost is $3500 to update them.

    If I buy it and invest the $3500~$4000 to get the truck up to date and then have to sell it, no one will give me credit for that and my asking would be $3K north of FMV. This truck has not sold in almost 60 days at near FMV, so what chances do I have if I go $3K above it as a private party? That's the driver behind this type of homework. I like the looks of the truck but if it goes to someone else it will no be a heart breaker (The TRD Pro badge is a bonus, not a must have).

    Good feedback and appreciate the input.
     
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  16. Jan 26, 2023 at 4:04 PM
    #16
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    Others will have to weigh in with their experience (maybe ask in the PRO section) but at 5 years and 77K miles, the truck still tracks, rides and drives well with no indication of the shocks needing to be changed on and off road. Like new? Hard to tell, but in a test drive last year of a 21 PRO with the FOX, there was not a huge difference. No leaks either. Rides and handles big bumps better than my buddies GMC Denali. The Denali crashes over some of the larger bumps in the roads near my house, and the PRO soaks up and remains stable. His rear suspension seems a bit nicer/smoother on tar strips and around town (is also quieter), but he prefers my truck over his on rougher roads.

    I'll probably buy a FOX set to put on the shelf before they are NLA. I was surprised to find the PRO Bilstein's were not rebuildable. They are on most of the others I have bought over the years for my cars.

    Lifespan also is effected by use and abuse.

    Toyota lists that their TRD Performance Shocks will fit the PRO. No idea how good they are. https://www.toyota.com/racing/trd/part-detail?partId=PTR13-34070&series=Tundra&year=2020
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  17. Jan 27, 2023 at 7:59 AM
    #17
    Dutch110

    Dutch110 New Member

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    My .02 as someone who recently traded his 15 TRD Pro in on a 19. I live close to Manheim, have buddies who work there and can run national comps, and work for manufacturers. I backstopped this with them and they agreed. Both dealers who I took my 15 to had a hard time valuing it for purchase or for trade. The reason is none have gone across the auction block in the last 6 months. So they had to rely on local market conditions. Which is a bit of a hamstring depending on where you live. The 19 I bought had been sitting on the lot for a few months. They had it WAY over priced for the market. Eventually came down 10 k and were in the ballpark. The numbers you are quoting for the truck market in general, while accurate, don't necessarily transfer to the TRD Pro since it is a specialty trim package and seems to, at least to a smaller degree, not be subject to the whims of the market as much. So don't bank on that market analysis entirely.

    I picked up my 15 in 2019. I traded it for exactly what I paid for it back then. But those two dealers I mentioned got into a bidding war over it too. The dealer I was buying the new one from eventually won out. The dealer who wanted to buy it had it pre sold which was driving their willingness to up their bid. Also, the two dealers hate each other so there was a bit of that going on too lol. Again, local market conditions

    As to the suspension. This pains me to say as a Bilstein fan, but the FOX is absolutely better. Without going into detail I know and understand suspension set up, valving, spring rates etc etc from a career in racing. The valving and spring rates on the Fox allow it to soak up washboards and rough trails while maintaining tire contact much better than my Bilstein's did. It is noticeable. The Bilstein was much more "nervous" in the same conditions
     
  18. Jan 27, 2023 at 2:25 PM
    #18
    pepeborja

    pepeborja [OP] New Member

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    Thanks for the info and the buying/selling experience. I concur with the Fox shock assessment and believe100K miles is way past the end of service life for the shocks and need a refresh.

    There is a guy named Lucky Lopez in Youtube and his channel is great to learn all about the automotive business. Highly recommended but there are others too and the consensus is this is not a good time to buy because prices are going down. The general advice is to wait until Q22023 or better. Their market analysis seems to be spot on and the TRD Pro VIN that I am tracking in the cargurus IMV calculator shows a decrease in FMV of $2104 (6%) in just 10 days from $35,642 to $33,538. Dealer is asking $34K which makes it $400 above FMV.

    The attached cargurus price chart shows there is another 17% or about $6000 to go DOWN for Trucks if we think Jan ‘21 is the new NORMAL for prices. If the chart and Lucky are correct, buying now means a potential negative market adjustment of $5Gs in a few months. I think the wait is prudent but the TRD Pro that I like will be gone, either sold or to auction; however, when I consider the cost of the new shocks at 4Gs plus the potential market adjustment of $5Gs, I think it is best to cool my jets and continue to monitor the situation. There will be others and FOMO is not my thing.

    I appreciate the feedback on the shocks, certainly an eye opener to think how expensive they are. They became a major item in figuring out the offer price, but when combined with the market adjustment projections there is a potential to quickly be upside down on this truck.



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  19. Jan 29, 2023 at 4:26 PM
    #19
    shreddykrueger

    shreddykrueger New Member

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    Hey OP - I don't have much for you in the way of advise but have a data point. Purchased my 2016 trd pro with 80k miles on it for 39k.

    I decided to go with this for the trim package over building up a newer SR5 which I could have found at about the same pricepoint. Wish my truck had less miles but some of these are at 1 million miles now.
     
  20. Jan 30, 2023 at 3:36 PM
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    Trentimus

    Trentimus New Member

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    A few of the TRD Pro items you mentioned appear on the 2019 refresh of the Pro line. Not the one OP is looking at.
     
  21. Jan 30, 2023 at 6:38 PM
    #21
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    How are you finding the shocks/ride, etc?
     
  22. Feb 1, 2023 at 7:32 AM
    #22
    shreddykrueger

    shreddykrueger New Member

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    Other than some creaking from the front sway bar bushings I love everything about this suspension. As many have said the around town ride is great as is the ability for the suspension to soak up bigger bumps. I haven't had a chance to get offroad with it yet, but don't have any plans to replace anything except for bumping up tire size.
     
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  23. Feb 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM
    #23
    Bulldog9

    Bulldog9 "My other car is a Porsche"

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    Mine as well at 79K The softer suspension can make the truck feel a bit clumsy at slower speeds, but normal driving, highway, etc, the truck is controlled and comfortable. My offroad amounts to dirt and gravel roads and beach, and it is shocking how the suspension soaks it up. My dad has an H2 Hummer, and Brother has a Gladiator. The PRO just dances across the washboard and rough stuff effortlessly while they get thrown around a whole lot more.

    I can't believe I am going on 6 years and 80K miles, and am hoping to get at least 125K miles out of the stock shocks. So far so good, and I am super impressed.
     

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